in mast reefing.- is it a problem

doug748 said:
Wash your mouth out for doubting the word of the master. 🧐 I have to agree with you that ownership of a furling main would not cancel it's disadvantages no matter how well you liked it.
The shortcomings and advantages of in mast reefing systems are well known and few sailors with an interest in quick sailing would touch them with a barge pole - unless they had some special requirement.

Cruising with a larger boat, perhaps in old age, is another matter. As you say, it is a matter of preference a idea that some find very tricky to grasp.

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As ever your "well known" shortcomings are mostly a load of bunkum. As for the "few" sailors who have an interest in quick sailing (whatever that means) who are they? Do they include all the people who are lucky enough to be able to buy a serious boat like an HR. Suggest you look at their latest boats and listen to the designers and builders views on the subject. Never mind all the Oysters that have in mast or in some cases in boom? Are they not interested in "quick sailing"?

The good Father owned a Vancouver 34 and is a confessed luddite so I guess he would not be in that category, but as he has no experience of either sailing never mind owning a boat with in mast I am not sure he is in a position to say anything on the subject. If you actually read that exchange it was nothing to do with performance but about the claim that slab reefing was simple and by implication was foolproof which in my view - and as I explained is not supportable, Indeed he agrees, qualifying his claim by saying you need to have the right bits of gear to solve the fundamental problems associated with the system.

What can one draw from this? There are some luddites who are wedded to their belief that slab reefing is better for cruising and to support this only offer their professed satisfaction without having any experience of alternatives. It doe make rational debate difficult when people are unwilling to accept that they may not be right.
 
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Tranona said:
As ever your "well known" shortcomings are mostly a load of bunkum. As for the "few" sailors who have an interest in quick sailing (whatever that means) who are they? Do they include all the people who are lucky enough to be able to buy a serious boat like an HR. Suggest you look at their latest boats and listen to the designers and builders views on the subject. Never mind all the Oysters that have in mast or in some cases in boom? Are they not interested in "quick sailing"?

The good Father owned a Vancouver 34 and is a confessed luddite so I guess he would not be in that category, but as he has no experience of either sailing never mind owning a boat with in mast I am not sure he is in a position to say anything on the subject. Like most other detractors he just trots out old chestnuts that are refuted by all those who do have experience and post here to share it.
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Quiet the contrary all I say whilst admitting that I have never been on a yacht with in mast reefing I point out that slab reefing is a perfectly acceptable method tried and tested over many years by many sailors in many conditions with many ways to make it better or alleviate problems of age. Surprisingly you can buy a HR or an Oyster or whatever boat you want with slab reefing.
 
Tranona said:
As ever your "well known" shortcomings are mostly a load of bunkum. As for the "few" sailors who have an interest in quick sailing (whatever that means) who are they? .......
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They are the people that ask simple questions like:

' Will this item help me to sail more quickly - or will it hamper the boats stability, increase it's centre of gravity reduce it's sail area, spoil it's sail shape and throw in a chance of trapping my fingers whilst hammering my bank balance '

Not that I am against convenience, I take it you have the system fitted, first thing you bought?

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Pure,y from someone who has actually sailed a number of different yachts with in mast furling.

Like anything on a yacht, if you set it up correctly, dare I say it, following the manufacturers instructions and then go and practice, practice, practice, I reckon the tiny speed disadvantages for the average sailor will make no difference to passage times. The convenience, when operated correctly,, in my opinion, outweigh that. Being able to shorten sail so easily is quite a bonus.

No good for racers. Perhaps marginal for day sailors. For coastal cruising, really comes in to its own. Ocean crossings? Fab.

Appreciate not everyone has those ambitions. But I've been very lucky to have been there and got the t shirt. At reef o'' clock, you know, around 3 in the morning. It's flippin handy!
 
Reef O Clock is lunchtime for us. Our slab reefing is easy enough that we’ll tuck one in to make sure we don’t spill our tea, and shake it out after. It’s what you’re used to, I guess. I don’t doubt that in mast can be a good thing.
 
Chiara’s slave said:
Reef O Clock is lunchtime for us. Our slab reefing is easy enough that we’ll tuck one in to make sure we don’t spill our tea, and shake it out after. It’s what you’re used to, I guess. I don’t doubt that in mast can be a good thing.
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My own yachts have always had slab reefing. Especially for sailing school yachts, I think it's very important to understand how it works. Like learning to drive with a manual gearbox. Then going on to an automatic.

Going on deck in a bit of a blow with wet decks and spray to put a reef in can be an invigorating challenge. Or a pita depending on one's point of view. I've used lines led back to the cockpit to avoid that. Less adventurous for sure. Bit fiddly to get sail shape right. But what's the rush? :)

As I mentioned, offshore is where in mast comes into its own. Of course if you don't do that......

Think also about older sailors. Very welcomed.
 
It's been around for quite a while now, and it is still a costly option on most AWBs ..... but the market keeps buying it, with the possible exception of a lot of charter companies who don't have an ownership program. They still buy slab, it is standard fit and easier to fix when some numpty breaks it.

No idea what the actual fit percentage is on privately owned boats, but it was on the must have list of my last boat purchase.

Fact is, I, and many like me love it. It makes sail handling on a 40ft + boat very easy for a middle-aged couple, and as @capnsensible says, for coastal cruising and longer passages it is fantastic.

In-mast reefing - is it a problem? .... no it's not.
 
Well I invested my time today in hoisting my in mast main.

I am glad it is the only time I will have have to hoist it this year.
It was quite tedious to hoist without trapping the luff .

I am even happier that the inmast roller gear wound the sail up without need for lubrication or winch
No need for sail covers ,stack pack or lazy Jack's.

So quick I had time to sit and sup a well earned pint in the sunshine outside the pub.
 
Pleased all went well for new -my only real life experience of seeing an issue was with a hamble based HR43 in st cast/st Malo marina having to remove main where they had bought a new main and seem to encountered issues with jamming -it might just be putting a shiny new main on an old system caused the issue though.
 
Roberto said:
With modern in mast furling systems, can the sail area be increased/decreased at any point of sail, without modifying course/wind angle? Can one adjust the surface while keeping a steady course sailing with the wind from say 120-150° (polar)?
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Yes, and that's the greatest advantage of them.

In-mast furling, at least a good system like Selden, is fine, but you have to follow a few basic rules:

1. Sail must be flat and not baggy. Dacron only works if it's fairly new. Laminate sails go with in-mast furling like cookies and cream.

2. Boom angle when furling or unfurling is critical. Normally horizontal, but it depends on the cut of the sail. Too high or low and the sail will wrinkle.

3. Like so many other things on board, the system must be maintained or it won't work correctly. Once a year all the bearings need lubrication, gears need lubrication, foil needs correct tension.

4. Depower the sail but keep a bit of wind in it, and a bit of outhaul tension on it, when furling or unfurling.

5. Watch it while you're operating it. Stop if something starts to go wrong.
 
Dockhead said:
Yes, and that's the greatest advantage of them.

In-mast furling, at least a good system like Selden, is fine, but you have to follow a few basic rules:

1. Sail must be flat and not baggy. Dacron only works if it's fairly new. Laminate sails go with in-mast furling like cookies and cream.

2. Boom angle when furling or unfurling is critical. Normally horizontal, but it depends on the cut of the sail. Too high or low and the sail will wrinkle.

3. Like so many other things on board, the system must be maintained or it won't work correctly. Once a year all the bearings need lubrication, gears need lubrication, foil needs correct tension.

4. Depower the sail but keep a bit of wind in it, and a bit of outhaul tension on it, when furling or unfurling.

5. Watch it while you're operating it. Stop if something starts to go wrong.
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Interesting, thank you Dockhead :)

FWIW, I never took too much notice of these furling mainsail systems, I am happy with slab, others with furling, isn't the world beautiful :)
I wonder if preferences are different depending upon places, I specifically strolled through my marina and another one nearby while counting mainsail furlers, plus looked at webcams for a couple of other big marinas (all South Brittany, Lorient, Crouesty, Port Haliguen), say total 2-3k visible boats: even just concentrating on bigger size boats (notably Amels have it), roller mainsails can be counted on a few handful, it's really very rare. Admittedly there are no superyachts, big-big boats tend to be 15-18m at most, but even on them there is absolutely no such prevalence of furling systems. I am curious to investigate more, next season I'll have a more careful look and count.
 
Roberto said:
Interesting, thank you Dockhead :)

FWIW, I never took too much notice of these furling mainsail systems, I am happy with slab, others with furling, isn't the world beautiful :)
I wonder if preferences are different depending upon places, I specifically strolled through my marina and another one nearby while counting mainsail furlers, plus looked at webcams for a couple of other big marinas (all South Brittany, Lorient, Crouesty, Port Haliguen), say total 2-3k visible boats: even just concentrating on bigger size boats (notably Amels have it), roller mainsails can be counted on a few handful, it's really very rare. Admittedly there are no superyachts, big-big boats tend to be 15-18m at most, but even on them there is absolutely no such prevalence of furling systems. I am curious to investigate more, next season I'll have a more careful look and count.
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Have look at the HRs that are for sale. Typically 90% of those over 37' will be in mast. The push for Srlden development came from Scandinavian and UK (at the time) builders of serious cruising boats 12m+ that often had ketch rigs in the 70s and early 80s but wanted to offer easy handling furrling sails. Never popular in France with French builders because the systems available there were not as good as Selden. Also popular with Bavaria, particularly for charter use and in the US/UK.

So, yes there is an element of location specific and boat size/type plus of course "fashion", but generally speaking once people have owned in mast (often after years of slab) they would not go back. Incidentally a cub member berthed opposite me has just bought a newish Jeanneau 30i with in mast! I must admit it looks a bit odd.
 
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