ashtead
Well-Known Member
I suspect this might depend on condition of system ?
in mast reefing.- is it a problem
- Thread starter barca nova
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Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Pretty much if it has no vertical battens. You don't want the sail against the spreaders when you reef, so pulling the boom in as if starting a gybe and then easing a bit on the outhaul, then pulling in on the furler, you can take it in say 50cm increments while maintaining course.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
Don’t they all have vertical battens nowadays ? I’m sure the ones offered on Moody (ie from Hanse empire) did but we didn’t opt for them so not sure . Maybe Hanse owners know though?
NormanS
Well-Known Member
The advantage of vertical battens is that they allow some roach. Mine has no battens, but I'm quite happy to accept the potential reduction in sail area.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Vertical battens are both a benefit and a disadvantage.
The main furls better without them as when the sail is under load they add resistance while going into the mast slot - the further off the wind the course, the worse it is as the battens have to be pulled across the edge of the slot before going into the mast and the batten pockets + battens are thicker than the sail.
They do however give a bigger sail area (more roach) and a better sail shape.
I moved from no battens to vertical battens and have noticed that it is better to head into the wind if I want to furl more than one batten spacing.
Concerto
Well-Known Member
My experience of a mast furler was on my parent's Moody Eclipse 43. We never had any problems with it in 4 years of ownership.
By comparison, I was alongside a boat of about 30ft some years ago that had a retro fit furler. When he bought a new mainsail he went with a slightly heavier cloth for better sail set. However the sail was now slightly bulkier and he could no longer completely furl it away leaving the last couple of feet always exposed.
By comparison, I was alongside a boat of about 30ft some years ago that had a retro fit furler. When he bought a new mainsail he went with a slightly heavier cloth for better sail set. However the sail was now slightly bulkier and he could no longer completely furl it away leaving the last couple of feet always exposed.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Two schools of thought (at least!). As you see from earlier posts, no battens and Vectra cloth is preferred by some as giving the advantages of a stable shape and no battens. Some mast sections are too small to take battens.
Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
I bought a Contest 41 last year with factory fit in mast furling, vertically battened sail and electric winches. It was not something I was looking for but I wanted the boat so went with it.
I am in two minds whether I love it or fear it. It is fast, convenient and flexible and means that I can handle the sails single handed even in heavy weather. On the other hand, the power of the winches and the need to be very precise on releasing clutches, boom and wind angles means that I am nervous in letting other people who are not used to the system use it.
It is very easy to tear the sail, blow a block, get the sail stuck or much worse hurt someone with the winches. I sometimes stop using the electrics and manually wind the winches if I have inexperienced people on board.
I am in two minds whether I love it or fear it. It is fast, convenient and flexible and means that I can handle the sails single handed even in heavy weather. On the other hand, the power of the winches and the need to be very precise on releasing clutches, boom and wind angles means that I am nervous in letting other people who are not used to the system use it.
It is very easy to tear the sail, blow a block, get the sail stuck or much worse hurt someone with the winches. I sometimes stop using the electrics and manually wind the winches if I have inexperienced people on board.
wonkywinch
Well-Known Member
Useful info here, inc guide and customer feedback.
Most issues are finger trouble/lack of understanding.
Even Beneteau/importing dealer set up our Z Spars furling mast with pre bend at delivery which previous 2 owners must have had to cope with until we had Flash take out.
Furling Masts | Zspars
Most issues are finger trouble/lack of understanding.
Even Beneteau/importing dealer set up our Z Spars furling mast with pre bend at delivery which previous 2 owners must have had to cope with until we had Flash take out.
Furling Masts | Zspars
NormanS
Well-Known Member
I'm no expert, but surely it must be fairly obvious that to have something revolving inside a mast, it has to be as straight as possible.
TSB240
Well-Known Member
Our new to us Beneteau 40cc had Z Spar fitted inmast as original fit.
I can say it has operated perfectly in all conditions once correctly set up. The boat came with a set of unused new sails and no battens.
In mast is perfect for an old man cruising but I do miss the incredible performance I had out of a brand new fully battened main and Genoa on my previous boat.
But the additional 12 foot on the waterline more than makes up the difference!
I don't miss the untidy, unsightly and bulky stack pack and the hassle of packing sail away and doing zips up!
Sailing time is much higher as you only have to tension a haliard to get sailing.
Biggest single mistake previous owner made was fitting an oversized furling line which didn't allow the furling drum to rotate freely when line was released.
A well set up inmast furler can be operated as easily as a well set up roller on a genoa.
Winching furling lines may be needed on bigger rigs but should be avoided if possible.
I can say it has operated perfectly in all conditions once correctly set up. The boat came with a set of unused new sails and no battens.
In mast is perfect for an old man cruising but I do miss the incredible performance I had out of a brand new fully battened main and Genoa on my previous boat.
But the additional 12 foot on the waterline more than makes up the difference!
I don't miss the untidy, unsightly and bulky stack pack and the hassle of packing sail away and doing zips up!
Sailing time is much higher as you only have to tension a haliard to get sailing.
Biggest single mistake previous owner made was fitting an oversized furling line which didn't allow the furling drum to rotate freely when line was released.
A well set up inmast furler can be operated as easily as a well set up roller on a genoa.
Winching furling lines may be needed on bigger rigs but should be avoided if possible.
SaltyC
Well-Known Member
It was my experience that is now difficult to find recent pre loved boats without in mast furling once above 35' ( Now classified as starter boats!?!)
Previous boat at 31' was fully battened main with single line reefing all controls led back, easy to sail, good performance, quick to hoist, reef and drop.
At 37' having decided on the boat I wanted ALL available were in mast.
Having sailed school / charter boats with in mast I had serious reservations re sail shape and performance, I accepted I would need a vertically battened main. Original main despite good quality and little used was a horrible shape, particularly in light winds but improved above F3.
New Vectran full length vertical battens transformed the boats performance and my enjoyment looking at a well setting sail.
Preference?
Under 34' I would stick with fully battened and slab reefing, as I get okder I see the advantages of in mast, however reefing / furling is harder work than letting a halyard go, perhaps in years to come an electric winch?
My major niggle is the preference / need to be on Stbd tack to unfurl / furl due to anti clockwise furl of the mandril.
Previous boat at 31' was fully battened main with single line reefing all controls led back, easy to sail, good performance, quick to hoist, reef and drop.
At 37' having decided on the boat I wanted ALL available were in mast.
Having sailed school / charter boats with in mast I had serious reservations re sail shape and performance, I accepted I would need a vertically battened main. Original main despite good quality and little used was a horrible shape, particularly in light winds but improved above F3.
New Vectran full length vertical battens transformed the boats performance and my enjoyment looking at a well setting sail.
Preference?
Under 34' I would stick with fully battened and slab reefing, as I get okder I see the advantages of in mast, however reefing / furling is harder work than letting a halyard go, perhaps in years to come an electric winch?
My major niggle is the preference / need to be on Stbd tack to unfurl / furl due to anti clockwise furl of the mandril.
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
Much depends on the boat.
On a design where the main is the driving sail (eg Concerto's Fulmar) you will lose pointing and power with in mast. On a ketch rig atop a chunky hull and long keel with a 140% genoa and decent size mizzen its much less critical, I am never going to point closer than around 40 degrees anyway. I set it more like a second jib than a conventional mainsail.
I agree about the starboard tack thing, although its only an issue for me in strong winds when reducing sail and not wanting to tack - it furls fine on either tack or head to wind in normal conditions. Again with a ketch rig, I will furl away some main early to a well reefed size or altogether, adding reductions to headsail and mizzen as needed. The mizzen is slab reefed.
For cruising singlehanded it is really nice to make sails disappear in an instant and concentrate on pilotage.
On a design where the main is the driving sail (eg Concerto's Fulmar) you will lose pointing and power with in mast. On a ketch rig atop a chunky hull and long keel with a 140% genoa and decent size mizzen its much less critical, I am never going to point closer than around 40 degrees anyway. I set it more like a second jib than a conventional mainsail.
I agree about the starboard tack thing, although its only an issue for me in strong winds when reducing sail and not wanting to tack - it furls fine on either tack or head to wind in normal conditions. Again with a ketch rig, I will furl away some main early to a well reefed size or altogether, adding reductions to headsail and mizzen as needed. The mizzen is slab reefed.
For cruising singlehanded it is really nice to make sails disappear in an instant and concentrate on pilotage.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
With an electric winch to help haul the main up a stack pack works for our12.8 m but in absence of powered winches I can see why in mast attracts . The big plus is speed to drop the main really which can be a one person operation on basis can turn head to wind .
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
I have recently cleaned my mast track, jammer and lubricated with McLube Sailkote. My mainsail, full battens, is around 35.5 m² (41’ LOA masthead rig). Raising it by hand had become difficult, but now is significantly easier. If I open the jammer on the main halyard, it is even easier. My arm strength and fitness has dropped significantly over the last few years as well. It is now being reported that leg and arm strength training, using calisthenics, or weights, rather than cardiovascular training is vital for old age fitness. Obviously this helps with mainsail hoisting. I think, as we age, if we engage in regular strength training, stuff like sail handling is easily manageable without electric winches.
I agree with your point though, that the convenience of in mast mainsail reefing is very convenient for leisure sailing, especially when one gets older.
Roberto
Well-Known Member
I changed all car balls to torlon and use a dry lubricant, sort of very fine teflon powder which lasts about a season before having to be sprayed again; if I let go my halyard the whole mainsail (35 sqm) drops in the blink of an eye, I actually have to slow it down otherwise all the cars pile up so violently one is afraid of breaking something
I raise it by hand, only need the winch for the final half meter or so. With non swept back spreaders the mainsail can be raised/lowered at almost any point of sail (except dead downwind) by sheeting the whole genoa in, the mainsail is backwinded and free to go up and down, I always use that method to reef/unreef while sailing downwind, or to hoist the mainsail when one leaves an anchorage engineless: unfurl the genoa, pick up some speed, sheet it in, hoist the mainsail then trim properly; never turned head to wind. 
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
I don't find the weight of the sail to be the problem- I can lift the whole sail on my shoulder when it's in its bag after all. It's the height of the boom above the deck.
A set of stilts would be slightly cheaper than switching to in mast, but may come with some drawbacks.
The cabin boy in a harness on a halyard is another way of reaching the zip. He quite enjoys it but can't always be relied upon.
A set of stilts would be slightly cheaper than switching to in mast, but may come with some drawbacks.
The cabin boy in a harness on a halyard is another way of reaching the zip. He quite enjoys it but can't always be relied upon.
westernman
Well-Known Member
We needed three people to take the folded up mainsail off our boat to take it to a sailmaker for repairs. It weighs a ton.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Wow, you must be in the younger generation on the forum.
I cannot lift the mainsail in its bag, even without the weight of the battens. Sail loft staff lift into boot of car and I use electric halyard winch to lift on board.
Easy to hoist fully battened main with a crew, as one pulls at mast and other tails. Solo I can pull up to second spreader then electric winch from there.
Zipping the stack pack is easy enough as stand on cockpit table to do aft section, and long string to pull forward. 4 steps at base of mast to fit front cover.
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NatalieG
New Member
We have in-mast furling on our Hanse 588 and we're happy with it. It suits how we sail — we're not racing, we're cruising the Med as a couple, so we don't need to squeeze every last fraction of a knot out of the rig.
The key for us is having a routine and not rushing it. We start furling on the manual winch so we can feel the sail going in properly and make sure it's feeding into the mast correctly. Once we know it's seated right, we switch over to the electric winch to finish it off. Going slow at the start makes all the difference — most of the horror stories you hear seem to come from people cranking it in too fast and jamming it.
It's not for everyone, but if you're looking at a cruising boat and you want something manageable shorthanded, it works well for us.
The key for us is having a routine and not rushing it. We start furling on the manual winch so we can feel the sail going in properly and make sure it's feeding into the mast correctly. Once we know it's seated right, we switch over to the electric winch to finish it off. Going slow at the start makes all the difference — most of the horror stories you hear seem to come from people cranking it in too fast and jamming it.
It's not for everyone, but if you're looking at a cruising boat and you want something manageable shorthanded, it works well for us.