In-mast or in boom furling?

I have had in mast for 16 years, virtually trouble free but you will never get the sail to set for maximum performance. I gave up racing years ago.

Serious question though. I understand that the angle of the boom is critical for in boom reefing. How then would you ease your vang or kicking strap for downwind sailing, if you would like more belly in the sail and still get it back to the perfect angle for reefing?
 
Simondjuk said:
How do you do that when the wind is abaft the beam and you can't depower the main?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing pull the main sheet in until the boom is into wind.
Even so, the moment the sail starts dropping it will fill.

On our in-mast furling I can furl dead down wind as I furl up the sail as the outhaul is released. Don't think I could do it in all conditions though.
 
Simondjuk said:
How do you do that when the wind is abaft the beam and you can't depower the main?
Click to expand...
Letting off the vang and lifting the boom with topping lift takes some of the drive out and then I just drag the slab down with the pennants. Not the best thing to do to the sail I grant you, but sometimes it's better than rounding up across the waves.
 
DJE said:
Letting off the vang and lifting the boom with topping lift takes some of the drive out and then I just drag the slab down with the pennants. Not the best thing to do to the sail I grant you, but sometimes it's better than rounding up across the waves.
Click to expand...

And you could do that and have her back sailing in less than a minute in all conditions?
 
DJE said:
Letting off the vang and lifting the boom with topping lift takes some of the drive out and then I just drag the slab down with the pennants. Not the best thing to do to the sail I grant you, but sometimes it's better than rounding up across the waves.
Click to expand...
You cannot be serious!
 
I've found slab with mast cars/fully battened works better than the boom or mast roller systems I've tried.

I could easily drop and reef on an 18m mast in quite windy conditions conditions downwind, sheet in a bit (with preventer) first so it is clear of spreaders.

Maybe the new systems are better as I'm comparing to an old twister boom with the winch handle on the front of the mast!
 
Neil_Y said:
I've found slab with mast cars/fully battened works better than the boom or mast roller systems I've tried.
I could easily drop and reef on an 18m mast in quite windy conditions conditions downwind, sheet in a bit (with preventer) first so it is clear of spreaders.
Maybe the new systems are better as I'm comparing to an old twister boom with the winch handle on the front of the mast!
Click to expand...

In no way can the modern principle of in-boom be compared to the old rotating boom systems. If I had thought there was any similarity to my old, truly awful, through-mast boom-rolling systems - on three very different yachts - I would never have considered fitting my present ProFurl in-boom reefing system.

Rather than addressing the OP's original question this thread appears to have degenerated into irrelevant comments about slab reefing - that's NOT what this thread should be about - the merits of in-boom vs in-mast, for those who have forgotten the theme.

I do have in-mast experience, although not on my own boat, where I went from slab reefing and a lazy-bag to in-boom, which I personally prefer now that initial teething troubles are cleared up. Each to his own, I guess, but rarely are there truly sensible and detailed comments on this subject, which indeed is controversial and requiring objective discussion. Probably due to too few having genuine knowledge of both systems and the usual drive to post something, anything, unsupported by any personal experience or facts.
 
I don't think thats fair, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are inexperienced. I personally feel in mast has its place but it is massively over hyped and over sold. I work on these gears and constantly get calls from older sailors who were told that if they spend £2.5k on an add on furler that they can reef with two fingers. There are lots of significant down sides to these systems and we have every right to chime in with alternatives.
 
Isn't it typical of this forum.
A poster asks for information regarding the pros and cons of in-boom versus in-mast reefing, and YOU LOT go on about slabs.
Did any of you read the questions well enough to pass exams in your youth?

The way the "sailtainer" in-boom works is to have a fully battened sail with a luffrope (no cars). Reef points are when the batten has just gone into the boom-slot, so the clew is held pushed out by the batten. The sail is reinforced appropriately at the batten pocket ends.
The limit of sail size is the capacity of the aluminium extrusion (boom diameter) into which it has to roll. The boom has to be at right angles to the mast (+/- a gnats nadger) or it will not roll/unroll cleanly, so a gas vang is required - but you can be topping-lift free and thus have a huge roach (as opposed to an in-mast, unless the battens are vertical)
A negative of the fixed vang, is the strain caused if the main flogs at all, while the inmast will be a loose-footed sail obviating the need for precise alignment.
If the sail jams (in the boom), or a halliard or conrol line breaks, the remainder/whole sail can be dumped and lashed to the boom as in days of yore, unlike the inmast system which may require a climber armed with a kitchen devil to clear.
Having declared my bias, I must now admit that furling requires controlled tension to be maintained on the halliard while the never-ending reefing loop is hauled (on a winch if it's any size at all). This can involve acquiring four arms if sailing single-handed!
In mast, on the other hand seems to be able to be simply handled by normal (and wrinkly) people, without a great many 'incidents'. You just get a crappy sail shape and hellish noise from the foil rattling in the mast when the sail is off for the winter. ( liveaboard grump!)
So, in-boom requires a precision set-up and provides a potentially superior sail shape, while in-mast is simpler but you may need a better genoa to make up for the mainsail size.

Finally, if you're about to invest, I would strongly recommend "try before you buy" on a boat the same as your own.

Edit: From a safety point of view, I should mention the weight of a furling boom - it will decapitate you before pushing the remains overboard, safer on larger boats where it's well up in the air.
 
Last edited:
wklein said:
I don't think thats fair, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are inexperienced.
Click to expand...
:confused:
Where did I write that? What I did write was that perhaps the lack of experience with both systems was why the subject produces so little rational debate - not that anyone who disagrees with me is inexperienced.

I would appreciate reading something that disagrees with me if a cogent argument was presented and not just "slab reefing is best" (which implies neither is any good) or "in-boom has too many problems" with no clear reason why. In the thread that I referred to in an earlier post I put forward all the pros and cons of both as I saw them from my biased viewpoint, although not in a systematic list.

I personally feel in mast has its place but it is massively over hyped and over sold. I work on these gears and constantly get calls from older sailors who were told that if they spend £2.5k on an add on furler that they can reef with two fingers. There are lots of significant down sides to these systems and we have every right to chime in with alternatives.
Click to expand...
Of course you have "every right to chime in" with the "significant down sides", but it would help if they were detailed, thereby adding something to the debate.
 
Billjratt said:
The way the "sailtainer" in-boom works is to have a fully battened sail with a luffrope (no cars). Reef points are when the batten has just gone into the boom-slot, so the clew is held pushed out by the batten. The sail is reinforced appropriately at the batten pocket ends.
The limit of sail size is the capacity of the aluminium extrusion (boom diameter) into which it has to roll. The boom has to be at right angles to the mast (+/- a gnats nadger) or it will not roll/unroll cleanly, so a gas vang is required - but you can be topping-lift free and thus have a huge roach (as opposed to an in-mast, unless the battens are vertical)
A negative of the fixed vang, is the strain caused if the main flogs at all, while the inmast will be a loose-footed sail obviating the need for precise alignment.
If the sail jams (in the boom), or a halliard or conrol line breaks, the remainder/whole sail can be dumped and lashed to the boom as in days of yore, unlike the inmast system which may require a climber armed with a kitchen devil to clear.
Having declared my bias, I must now admit that furling requires controlled tension to be maintained on the halliard while the never-ending reefing loop is hauled (on a winch if it's any size at all). This can involve acquiring four arms if sailing single-handed!
In mast, on the other hand seems to be able to be simply handled by normal (and wrinkly) people, without a great many 'incidents'. You just get a crappy sail shape and hellish noise from the foil rattling in the mast when the sail is off for the winter. ( liveaboard grump!)
So, in-boom requires a precision set-up and provides a potentially superior sail shape, while in-mast is simpler but you may need a better genoa to make up for the mainsail size.
Finally, if you're about to invest, I would strongly recommend "try before you buy" on a boat the same as your own.
Edit: From a safety point of view, I should mention the weight of a furling boom - it will decapitate you before pushing the remains overboard, safer on larger boats where it's well up in the air.
Click to expand...


At last a thoughtful and informative post. Thank you.
 
Simple answer,neither. I have the profurl in boom and it rubbish from a engineering perspective. Boom angle is no problem unless its blowing when you furl.
Inmast, the recent Seldens work well, but you'll need a new mast. Avoid the French ones wih the helical screw, thay jam easily.

Save your money, fully battened main with cars (and Selden single line reefing if you must) lead all lines aft. Its easy, reliable little to go wrong and cheap. Anyone want a pristine roller boom?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

M
Adding radar - on pole or arch?
2 3 4
Replies
74
Views
2K
Marsali_1
M

Share this page

Top