Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
This should have the traditionalists spitting feathers .... it's go it all, a Bavaria with in-mast furling and doors instead of washboards .... 
Quelle horreur!!!
Quelle horreur!!!
In-mast furling: out of place on a serious offshore yacht?
- Thread starter Greenheart
- Start date
jbweston
Well-Known Member
Penguin (Malo 37) has Selden in-mast furling and it works fine.
You can jam it if you know how. Basically a loose furl, specially if you can manage to get a fold in the leech, gives you a sporting chance of a jam when you unfurl next time. But nothing you can't overcome with a bit of winding in and out.
To really mess it up, I think it would be necessary to over-tighten the topping lift so as to guarantee to get folds in the sail on furling. I take a bit of trouble to set the topping lift up at the start of the season and usually don't touch it again until we lay up at the end of the season.
Also (as I think is good practice whenever doing anything with a sail) it's best to watch the sail when furling rather than watching the furling line. That way if it is furling with a crease you can see at once and correct it by taking any slack out of the outhaul so the foot of the sail has less slack in it as it furls.
I thought I wanted slab reefing but was persuaded to have in-mast and I don't regret it. The main attraction is speed - I can furl or unfurl in seconds without going on deck. Not that i mind going on deck but when I'm by myself being able to complete the operation quickly (eg when rounding up in a harbour entrance) is useful.
I think the sail sets well with reasonable shape and doesn't look bad.
I haven't actually counted but it looks like most Malos built in recent years have it.
You can jam it if you know how. Basically a loose furl, specially if you can manage to get a fold in the leech, gives you a sporting chance of a jam when you unfurl next time. But nothing you can't overcome with a bit of winding in and out.
To really mess it up, I think it would be necessary to over-tighten the topping lift so as to guarantee to get folds in the sail on furling. I take a bit of trouble to set the topping lift up at the start of the season and usually don't touch it again until we lay up at the end of the season.
Also (as I think is good practice whenever doing anything with a sail) it's best to watch the sail when furling rather than watching the furling line. That way if it is furling with a crease you can see at once and correct it by taking any slack out of the outhaul so the foot of the sail has less slack in it as it furls.
I thought I wanted slab reefing but was persuaded to have in-mast and I don't regret it. The main attraction is speed - I can furl or unfurl in seconds without going on deck. Not that i mind going on deck but when I'm by myself being able to complete the operation quickly (eg when rounding up in a harbour entrance) is useful.
I think the sail sets well with reasonable shape and doesn't look bad.
I haven't actually counted but it looks like most Malos built in recent years have it.
alant
Well-Known Member
Try furling a mainsail, with the boom 'cocked up' at an angle, then you might appreciate how different it is to a headsail system.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
I would remind you that I have in-mast furling, so I know how it works.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
In mast furling is great, like condoms 99.9% of the time. ;-)
prv
Well-Known Member
Indeed - the Army skipper I sailed with nearly 15 years ago would always say "watch what you wind!". Anybody winding a winch without looking forward at what they were controlling would get an instant reminder of this.
One of the inevitable compromises of our new boat is that the sheet winches are mounted on the aft coaming of the cockpit where you can't help but face away from the sail
Pete
johnphilip
Well-Known Member
I wonder how relevent it is that the average age of the sailor is fairly mature by the time they afford a Hallberg?
We have a large main on a reasonably performance orientated cruiser and whilst I have no forseeable problem with slab reefing I can see that gathering the main even with lazyjacks will become an issue as surefootedness declines.....
BrianH
Well-Known Member
As I have with my smaller Profurl system with its full-length battened sail.
Five years ago I was something of a pioneer with my retro-fit, in-boom installation in my 2000 boat Italian marina. Last year I toured around and was staggered at the number of in-boom systems I saw amongst the sailing boats of all sizes - in a cruising population where just about every boat has either in-mast or in-boom systems. Clearly, in my area, the in-boom principle is gaining acceptance.
The one area where in-mast is advantageous it seem to me, is the ability to reef well off the wind. With my system, even with an articulating luff track, I must really keep within 45° into the wind. But I still have that, perhaps irrational, fear of jamming an in-mast system in a rising gale, which, where I sail, the Adriatic, can come blasting out of nowhere so unexpectedly.
This subject has really been done to death in previous threads, I'm surprised to see it again so soon.
Rossynant
Well-Known Member
Ach, yeah. And my on-boom roller installation needs to be taken apart now, as got bit stiff after 40 years
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PeterR
Well-Known Member
I guess the in-mast systems have become more reliable over the years and if the mast length was specified with in-mast furling in mind there probably isn't too much impact on performance. I can see the attraction, particularly for couples who buy very big cruising boats, but after having one of these contraptions get totally stuck half way out nothing would persuade me to own one and my heart sinks if we charter and find that is what is provided.
If a roller headsail gets a riding turn or some some such problem, if the worst comes to the worst you can always cut the furling line pull the sail out and take it down. When our main got totally stuck about half way out nothing short of an hour up the mast in a bosun's chair could sort it out. It may well never happen to you but if it does believe me you will be scarred for life.
If a roller headsail gets a riding turn or some some such problem, if the worst comes to the worst you can always cut the furling line pull the sail out and take it down. When our main got totally stuck about half way out nothing short of an hour up the mast in a bosun's chair could sort it out. It may well never happen to you but if it does believe me you will be scarred for life.
haydude
Well-Known Member
Here we go again ... to answer to the op: have a look at the pictures of a few ocean going sailing yachts and you will get your answer.
BrianH
Well-Known Member
I am sure the disadvantages experienced by many with the old 'on-boom' (good distinction term) was what kept the in-boom principle unattractive for so long; I know it did for me. When it was first proposed I replied "no way, been there, had all the problems." I needed to have explained that it was an entirely different system to what I had been using in different boats for the past 50 years. I had never heard of the new system as they had, in the main [pun intended], been fitted only on larger craft and very expensively.Ach, yeah. And my on-boom roller installation needs to be taken apart now, as got bit stiff after 40 years
With regard to my jamming fear, I now know that whatever happens to the reefing mechanism, I can still drop the sail.
tedgorton
Active Member
[QUOTEThat said, if they were good, more boats would have them.[/QUOTE]
well, I think the percentage of new production cruising yachts with them is rising exponentially... same could have been said about autohelm or many other features we now take for granted.
I have had Selden in-mast reefing on my Bavaria 36 for 3 years and it has never snagged, jammed or otherwise caused issues, not once, in many miles of happy cruising in Greece. I have not quite figured out how to unfurl just what I need for a 2- or 3-reef situation, without it (occasionally, in a strong wind) blowing out and having to be winched back in to where I want it. Grateful for any tips.
well, I think the percentage of new production cruising yachts with them is rising exponentially... same could have been said about autohelm or many other features we now take for granted.
I have had Selden in-mast reefing on my Bavaria 36 for 3 years and it has never snagged, jammed or otherwise caused issues, not once, in many miles of happy cruising in Greece. I have not quite figured out how to unfurl just what I need for a 2- or 3-reef situation, without it (occasionally, in a strong wind) blowing out and having to be winched back in to where I want it. Grateful for any tips.
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Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Is it continuous line like my Bav 36 from '99?
If so, what I am going to try this season is running the furling line and the out-haul on different sides of the boat. That way you can control both lines on the two cabin-top winches to ensure they never run free. If they're both on the same side you've only got one winch and the clutches can be a bit brutal.
If on seperate sides you can winch the sail out on one side, and put a turn of the reefing line on the opposite winch, holding the rope to control the unfurling sail.
At the moment I control the sail at the mast with a winch handle while someone else hauls the sail out.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Both parts of my continuous line pass through clutches. If I don't want all the sail out, I close the clutch on the "In", and take up all the slack on the "Out", as soon as the required amount of sail is out. I don't normally have to use a winch at all.
tedgorton
Active Member
Thanks, Baggywrinkle, very helpful. I may not go as far as using 2 winches but will try to keep friction on the continuous line, I am usually singlehanded so have been ignoring it. NormanS suggests using the clutch and that might help as a backstop. Not sailing until May (Dammit) but will report!
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Do you furl and un-furl with the sail full or do you alter course to take the load off? just curious because I find the clutch is a bit rough on the rope when letting it slip under load which is why I take a turn round the winch and let it slip that way.
tedgorton
Active Member
no, I head straight into the wind or close off it to unfurl; to furl (on "ratchet" if there's any wind to speak of) I just ease the mainsheet and point vaguely towards the wind. it's just hard to work two winches at the same time if you're on your own...
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I don't have the continuous loop fitted currently - to reef we put a couple of turns on the winch (out-haul) and then let the clutch off, holding the out-haul on the winch. At the mast we winch the sail in, the one in the cockpit just eases the out-haul and we wind her in, apply the clutch and it's done. This works without changing course in most conditions. When I put the loop back, I should be able to do the same thing from the cockpit as long as the loop goes to the other winch. Will see how it goes.
tedgorton
Active Member
I don't have the continuous loop fitted currently - to reef we put a couple of turns on the winch (out-haul) and then let the clutch off, holding the out-haul on the winch. At the mast we winch the sail in, the one in the cockpit just eases the out-haul and we wind her in, apply the clutch and it's done. This works without changing course in most conditions. When I put the loop back, I should be able to do the same thing from the cockpit as long as the loop goes to the other winch. Will see how it goes.
ah but the one in the cockpit and the one at the mast is both me, to torture the grammar a bit. but you gave me the idea of NOT using a continuous loop. I guess you need a long line with a figure-8 to make sure it does not slip through the cleat?
sorry I've had a glass or two, it the above does not make a lot of sense.