In-mast furling: out of place on a serious offshore yacht?

[bbg]

If it's good enough for Amel it's good enough for round the world.

Personally I don't like the loss of roach and battens but what you lose in efficiency you gain in convenience.

I agree 100%. Lots of boat cross oceans with in-mast furling. Just like lots of AWBs cross oceans and go around the world. I've sailed an Amel and would happily take it to the Caribbean, but I wouldn't choose it myself.

What is suitable for one person will not be what someone else wants.

I know what kind of boat I would choose if I wanted to do an Atlantic circuit. That doesn't mean anyone else would (or should) like it.

 

[Tranona]

I'm posting some pics of mine when I get a mo, because it does get stuck. Essentially, the furling line is like the kicker, so when I pull sailing out, the angle of approach in to the furling drum below the gooseneck causes the line to ride over itself, which jams the whole show up. It's an old Nic 32 that's been well sailed, so I've no doubt there's a technique to this, but I can't figure it out as yet.

Sounds like you have an add on system rather than a purpose designed one. These are generally less satisfactory than the now common Selden in mast which works very well. You probably have the option of removing it completely and going back to slab reefing, but of course means new sail and reefing gear.

 

[alant]

There are big differences between cruising, offshore long distance cruising and "ready-for-anything, rugged, ocean-sailing"

Increasingly common? Selden supply more inmast than traditional now.

All the arguments about lack of roach and battens etc generally come from people who do not know what they are talking about.

With the right setup the performance loss is so small as to be unmeasurable and they do not get stuck. They are definitely easier to handle and that's why cruising sailors use them.

The issue for true offshore sailing is different. Yes, lots of people have been offshore with inmast and have had no problems, but in the albeit small likelihood that something does go wrong, having a sail stuck , particularly if it has vertical battens, may well outweigh the convenience factor.

The other issue is one of weight distribution. Inmast carries all the weight aloft, all the time. When reefng in horrendous conditions the lowering of the centre of pressure is a consideration.

On very big boats where everything is so heavy that it has to be mechanically managed I can see that these issues are less important, but for the singlehandler I am of the view that the risk of the thing sticking, no matter how small, is not worth the consequences.

Are you not confusing "lowering the centre of pressure", with 'lowering the centre of gravity', if your concerned about weight aloft?

 

[alant]

I know people who mistrust or dislike roller furling headsails. Like everything else, it's personal preference. If a system is well installed and properly maintained and operated, it seems that it will be fine. But there's little doubt that the more complex something is, the more it is at risk from something going wrong.
Last year I was anchored next to a Moody whose mainsail was wrapped around his mast, as a result of a failed top swivel. He was looking at a 300 mile sail home with no mainsail. I wouldn't want that to happen mid-Atlantic, but obviously some people do think the system is reliable enough.

A while back I read a book by a couple who over-wintered their steel ketch on the Antartic Peninsula. They were big fans of in-mast furling, and claimed that it allowed furling/reefing on any point of sail- which is exactly the opposite of my own experience, so I wonder hat system they were using?

How many of us have had furling line problems on a headsail?
I can remember dealing with such mid Biscay, because the opposite watch had ignored orders & caused a massive riding turn problem. Luckily the weather was clement, but still took quite some time to deal with, requiring hand unfurl of the headsail & dropping it, to sort out. Not something you'd want to do in any serious weather.

 

[jwilson]

If your "....ready-for-anything, rugged, ocean-sailing philosophy" includes nothing you can't fix yourself (ie probably minimal electronics, transom hung rudders only, and no roller furling on the headsails, then in-mast is not for you.

Used properly, masts built for in-mast work pretty well, and really do have some advantages in moderate to strong winds. You have to learn how to use them though, boom angle is very critical, also you have to keep tension on as you furl. They are rubbish in light winds though.

 

[NormanS]

My ketch has furling genoa, in-mast furling main, and lazyjacks for the mizzen. The only one which has ever given me any bother (once) is the furling for the genoa.
The diverter for the halyard failed, causing a wrap.

 

[prv]

My ketch has furling genoa, in-mast furling main, and lazyjacks for the mizzen. The only one which has ever given me any bother (once) is the furling for the genoa.
The diverter for the halyard failed, causing a wrap.

Drifting the thread slightly, but it strikes me as odd that that mast even had a diverter.

Built for an in-mast furling main, it was clearly never going to hoist hanked-on headsails. So why not put the genoa halyard sheave lower down in the first place? Instead of running the halyard out in the wrong place and then strapping it down through a fairlead, held in place by rivets in tension which is not ideal and occasionally fails? Is there any good reason, or just lack of thought by the riggers?

Pete

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Your problem seems odd to me. Usually the problem is the sail gets jammed because the roach has doubled over on itself when being furled so it then has a double thickness as you try to unfurl and it gets stuck. Is your furling line jumping off the drum because the sail gets stuck first? After a number of snarl ups I have gathered that the essential is to furl the sail properly and then unfurling is snag free. Some pointers.The boom needs to be supported ( by rod kicker or topping lift ) so foot of sail is parallel to the boom. A little, but not too much tension is then kept on the outhaul as the sail is furled, with an eye being kept to see that the leach does not double over. If it does try again. It usually helps to furl nearly head to wind just on starboard tack. In average winds one turn around a sheet winch with the outhaul sheet will give the required tension.
I've never had any real problem reefing or furling. It' the unfurling that gives problems. (with Selden gear)

Haha. Not at all. If one can't brag about their toys, it's all a bit pointless.

I do wonder what I'm doing wrong with mine though. A few replies on here have suggested they're ok, but the furling line gets stuck on mine when unfurling. I suppose if it was going to get stuck in one direction, that is at least the preferred.

 

[Kelpie]

How many of us have had furling line problems on a headsail?

Exactly. I spent a good chunk of last summer with a sticky genoa. I think it was down to not getting the tension right on the halyard. It was never a serious concern but it did need a few trips to the foredeck, and I'm hoping that this year I can get to the bottom of the problem.
I wouldn't trust myself with a furling main, since I can't seem to even get the genoa to furl reliably...

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Are you not confusing "lowering the centre of pressure", with 'lowering the centre of gravity', if your concerned about weight aloft?

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

[KellysEye]

We chartered a Beneteau 52 for Antigua sailing week which had in mast furling - it jammed while trying to take it in. I wouldn't touch it and would certainly not have it on ocean passages, it's not worth the risk.

 

[NormanS]

Drifting the thread slightly, but it strikes me as odd that that mast even had a diverter.

Built for an in-mast furling main, it was clearly never going to hoist hanked-on headsails. So why not put the genoa halyard sheave lower down in the first place? Instead of running the halyard out in the wrong place and then strapping it down through a fairlead, held in place by rivets in tension which is not ideal and occasionally fails? Is there any good reason, or just lack of thought by the riggers?

Pete

I couldn't agree more. It does seem stupid, but that's the way it was when we bought the pre-loved boat.

 

[ProMariner]

Have been on boats where they worked perfectly, and been on boats where they were a constant headache.

Much like: engines, generators, diesel heaters, elec windlass, power systems etc.

If you can afford to get recent/reputable brand/professionally fitted and serviced/carefully used, they can all work fine, and possibly even improve the cruising experience. Especially as they can keep sailing couples sailing for a further 10 years.

But a worn out or abused in mast furler, or a main that is not crispy new, can ruin a sailing trip. Slab reefing, on the other hand, is pretty bomb proof, and a lot has to go wrong with it before you have to write off a weekend.

Would not choose to own a boat with in mast furling (generators, diesel heaters, elec windlass, power systems etc), but hey, ask me again in 20 years....

 

[alant]

Have been on boats where they worked perfectly, and been on boats where they were a constant headache.

Much like: engines, generators, diesel heaters, elec windlass, power systems etc.

If you can afford to get recent/reputable brand/professionally fitted and serviced/carefully used, they can all work fine, and possibly even improve the cruising experience. Especially as they can keep sailing couples sailing for a further 10 years.

But a worn out or abused in mast furler, or a main that is not crispy new, can ruin a sailing trip. Slab reefing, on the other hand, is pretty bomb proof, and a lot has to go wrong with it before you have to write off a weekend.

Would not choose to own a boat with in mast furling (generators, diesel heaters, elec windlass, power systems etc), but hey, ask me again in 20 years....

My experience with them & in boom furlers, is that (1) the position of the boom can be critical, otherwise furling the main can be uneven (2) furling lines etc, should be marked, so that they are in same position each time used.

 

[Stork_III]

I'm posting some pics of mine when I get a mo, because it does get stuck. Essentially, the furling line is like the kicker, so when I pull sailing out, the angle of approach in to the furling drum below the gooseneck causes the line to ride over itself, which jams the whole show up. It's an old Nic 32 that's been well sailed, so I've no doubt there's a technique to this, but I can't figure it out as yet.

Sounds like you need to improve the attack angle of the line on the drum. Can you take it up to a turning block on the boom U/S to improve the angle?

 

[Salty John]

It's always worked fine on the Amel Maramu I sail from time to time, I'd have no hesitation in using it for blue water cruising.

 

[Pete7]

I wasn't sure at first but now 5 years on, I think our inmast reefing is wonderful and would actively seek out inmast reefing for any future yachts. Any loss of sail area due to the lack of lack of roach just isn't needed with our mast head genoa, that is were the real power comes from.

Pete

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Oyster 55 - very serious very capable ocean going sailing boat.

The in-mast furling gave good sailing performance, because the rig had been designed with it. Yes the mainsail shape was compromised, but the rig was sized etc to compensate for that, so she sailed very well (cutter rig).

It had a manual furling system with a continuous line going round a sheave at boom level. It was quite easy to jam this system whilst unfurling the sail - but once you knew what to do, and what not to do, it was easy enough not to jam it.

Bottom line - system worked (once you had learned how to use it), sailing performance was good, and it made single-handed mainsail handling perfectly possible.

 

[NormanS]

We are probably in the category suggested by ProMariner, where keeping things easy should extend our sailing lives. Having gone back to sailing after many years on the dark side, we have found huge improvements in sail handling technology. Previously we didn't even have a furling jib (on our Folkboat). We find the ease and simplicity of both the furling genoa, and the in-mast main, fantastic. When the wind pipes up a bit too much, we just wind some sail away, without ever leaving the cockpit. It is also very good for adjusting the tension along the foot.

I haven't found that the boom has to be at a precise angle to the mast. Why should it? The clew is not fastened directly to the boom. I could see that with in-boom furling, it would matter, but in my experience, provided the sheet is eased, the main can be wound in with no drama, anytime.

 

[Philiz]

Mine works okay, only jammed once but that was down to my inexperience rather than any problems with the in-mast reefing. Okay, I'm not going to win any races, but I didn't buy the boat for that.