In mast furling. Desirable?

[TSB240]

I was firmly in the spawn of the devil camp prior to reluctantly purchasing a 12m boat with in mast reefing.

I am a total convert to the convenience of a well maintained in mast reefing set up. It is much the same as a wll set up roller reefed genoa.

I don't expect to race our cruiser.
I don't miss the performance gained by a big roach fully battened mainsaiL
I don't have the associated baggage of lazy Jack's, 3 reef lines and a sail pack.
I wouldn't be able to reach the zip to close it!

No winch power is required for reefing other than for holding releasing and loading the sheet or outhaul after taking in a roll or two.
I use this rule for my roller reefing as much as for inmast.

I think perceived problems with in mast reefing are self inflicted by owners using tired baggy sails or badly maintained reefing gear.
If you have either of these you deserve them and they will probably come to bite you in the worst possible circumstances.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I don’t have in mast furling on my boat, but have used them on charter boats. In mast furling would not be a deal breaker on my next boat, all other things considered. There is no doubt that in mast furling tech has matured, works well, improves sail handling efficiency and is quite common these days. I think fear of failure is really down to either bias or ignorance, probably both. Regarding the weak and feeble old person, extending sailing as an excuse to justify in mast reefing, that is a red herring. A feeble old person is just as likely to mess up irrespective of the system used to handle mainsail. I think this is borne about by all the old people I see who never leave their marinas or motor everywhere who have in mast i.e. in mast is irrelevant if your feeble, your potentially a liability.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Best of t

We are starting a group which plans a yacht share and are considering the pros and cons of various yachts. In mast furling came up and as I have not really thought about it in the past
decided that there was no better place for advice than here! I will encourage the other group members to view the comments.
We are looking for a yacht of around 10m and will be sailing in Spain. We noticed 2 Furia 33s and one had in mast which sparked debate.
In general what are the pros and cons? My only experience is watching a neighbouring yacht owner trying over days to unjam his furler and this did put me off a little.
On the other hand they do seem neat and easy to use!
I will be interested in views and experiences as these may inform our buying options.
Thanks all.

Best of two evils.
Against -when you want it out and it stays in and when you want it in it stays out.
But it's a godsend overall.

 

[capnsensible]

Seems to be abit of a fuss about this topic. Going by personal experience, I've sailed loadsa boats with inmast reefing over tens of thousands of miles with few problems and none that couldn't be solved.

Big bonus on longer trips when single handers or the on watch person can reef on their own.

Like.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

When I got my Bav 40 with in mast, I was very sceptical (I had slab on my last boat, an Albin Ballad). It's now a breeze, I wrote an article on it below, and the process we went through to overhaul the mechanism and get comfortable with it.

https://www.sailingmirage.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/PBO286.prac_stiff_roller_furling.pdf

The one con I do see, that I don't think I mention in the above, is the need to have to round up to reef - in my Albin Ballad, down wind you could haul the main all the way in, scandalise it with some topping lift and reef down wind - no chance of doing that with in mast.

That is offset by the fact you do not need to go on deck to reef!

 

[Sea Change]

I've heard some references to needing to put the engine on in order to get sufficiently head to wind too furl a mainsail. Is that a myth, a sign of a poor setup, or is it actually quite common?

 

[NormanS]

I've heard some references to needing to put the engine on in order to get sufficiently head to wind too furl a mainsail. Is that a myth, a sign of a poor setup, or is it actually quite common?

I have never needed to do that. I find that freeing the sheet, so that there is little or no drive from the sail, is sufficient for furling or reefing. Bear in mind that in-mast furling is just the same a roller furling a headrail, except that you can't see it happening. It is easier on starboard tack, but I don't it on either tack.

 

[Sea Change]

I have never needed to do that. I find that freeing the sheet, so that there is little or no drive from the sail, is sufficient for furling or reefing. Bear in mind that in-mast furling is just the same a roller furling a headrail, except that you can't see it happening. It is easier on starboard tack, but I don't it on either tack.

I've seen references to needing to put the engine on to reef or furl the main... which would be a bit of deal breaker for me. But I did wonder if it was an exception to the norm and a sign of a badly made or operated system.

I would say that it's not exactly the same as furling a headsail though- you can do that on any point of sail so long as you ease the sheet. You're not trying to persuade the sail to fit through a narrow slot.

 

[davidmh]

I think it is most important to find out if the origina design and sail plan was for an inmast furler. Two reasons the mast is heavier and will make the boat more tender unless it was part of the original design. Doing a conversion using the original in furling mast the mainsail area is reduced because you have really no roach, so this needs to be taken into consideration by the designer. All that being said, there are advantages for older or short handed crew, BUT there are more things that can go wrong and sorting out a jammed main will not be easy single handed and will often need muscle power to sort it. The OP would be safer to choose a boat where the furler was fitted as original fitment, preferable not just an optional extra. When I bought my Vancouver it had an add on furler it was horrible, it went in the first few weeks of my ownership. II was fortunate to sell the unit and sail for a good price on this forum. I reverted to the old mast and the old slab reefed sail and the change in sailing was amazing.
David MH

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I've seen references to needing to put the engine on to reef or furl the main... which would be a bit of deal breaker for me. But I did wonder if it was an exception to the norm and a sign of a badly made or operated system.

I would say that it's not exactly the same as furling a headsail though- you can do that on any point of sail so long as you ease the sheet. You're not trying to persuade the sail to fit through a narrow slot.

For fractional rigs with swept back spreaders you can't sail with the mainsail anywhere 90° to the mast, so the slot angle is not so extreme. I've never had a problem furling on a run .... there are basically a few options, you pull in the main as if to do a controlled gybe but furl instead, or, you alter course slightly to make the sail angle more "slot friendly" .... in my experience, a newish, stiff sail furls without much friction even at extreme angles to the slot - on my fractional rig.

The engine can be a useful tool to take load off the sails in moderate winds if for example you want to reef or gybe and have a novice crew. Never discout anything that might give a situational advantage IMO ... but I don't race my boat so there is nothing stopping me using the engine or motor-sailing if I feel like it - especially if the crew are fed up and just want to "get there".

 

[jbweston]

I had in-mast furling on my last boat, a Malö 37, and it worked really well.

I had slab reefing with lazyjacks on my previous boat, a Sadler 34. It worked really well.

There are pros and cons with both systems and it comes down to personal preference. Yes, in-mast can jam. Yes, slab reefing can result in you being washed off the deck while working at the mast. Neither of those things should happen if you're careful and things are set up right. Choose what you prefer.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

For fractional rigs with swept back spreaders you can't sail with the mainsail anywhere 90° to the mast, so the slot angle is not so extreme. I've never had a problem furling on a run .... there are basically a few options, you pull in the main as if to do a controlled gybe but furl instead, or, you alter course slightly to make the sail angle more "slot friendly" .... in my experience, a newish, stiff sail furls without much friction even at extreme angles to the slot - on my fractional rig.

The engine can be a useful tool to take load off the sails in moderate winds if for example you want to reef or gybe and have a novice crew. Never discout anything that might give a situational advantage IMO ... but I don't race my boat so there is nothing stopping me using the engine or motor-sailing if I feel like it - especially if the crew are fed up and just want to "get there".

So, on the way back from Belgium, we hardened up as we came out of the Dunkirk approach channel towards Ramsgate. It became apparent we were well over powered with one reef in with 25 to 28 knots blowing. To reef the main quickly, I furled the headsail to stop it flogging, turned the engine on and went head to wind, furled the reef in the main (stb tack), and went back on our course, engine back off again. Easy, took minutes, and all from the cockpit, but yes, I personally used the engine to get the job done and hold the angle to the wind I wanted. When furling you don’t want the clue to rise (else the sail can bunch up), so having the boom out far from the centerline flogging about does you no favours here, so holding to bow to the wind with the engine allows control to get a tidy, neat and tight furl.

In those winds, for us, the friction would have been too great to furl downwind, even with the boom centralised. As soon as you would let a tiny bit go from the outhaul the sail would glue itself to the mast. I asked Selden about furling on any other angle of the wind, they replied with:

We would advise for you to always furl the sail head to wind, this is so that the sail isn’t full, therefore taking the load off of your furling mechanism.

As well as making your furling and life a lot easier it will also help to improve the longevity of your system.

I hope you find this information to your benefit.

 

[Sea Change]

So, on the way back from Belgium, we hardened up as we came out of the Dunkirk approach channel towards Ramsgate. It became apparent we were well over powered with one reef in with 25 to 28 knots blowing. To reef the main quickly, I furled the headsail to stop it flogging, turned the engine on and went head to wind, furled the reef in the main (stb tack), and went back on our course, engine back off again. Easy, took minutes, and all from the cockpit, but yes, I personally used the engine to get the job done and hold the angle to the wind I wanted. When furling you don’t want the clue to rise (else the sail can bunch up), so having the boom out far from the centerline flogging about does you no favours here, so holding to bow to the wind with the engine allows control to get a tidy, neat and tight furl.

In those winds, for us, the friction would have been too great to furl downwind, even with the boom centralised. As soon as you would let a tiny bit go from the outhaul the sail would glue itself to the mast. I asked Selden about furling on any other angle of the wind, they replied with:

Do you think you could have successfully furled the main in those conditions without the engine on? Maybe if you'd kept the genoa out and sailed hard on the wind but with the main spilled?

(Genuine questions and not trying to prove any points- my only direct experience of in mast was years ago on my DS course)

 

[paris]

personally i prefer slab reefed main that you can drop quickly into a stack pack, i've been put off furling main when trying to come into Ostende in 25-30knts and the poxy thing creased and became jammed in the track. also i prefer being able to tweak the main sail sailing which you can more with a conventional main sail

 

[Baggywrinkle]

So, on the way back from Belgium, we hardened up as we came out of the Dunkirk approach channel towards Ramsgate. It became apparent we were well over powered with one reef in with 25 to 28 knots blowing. To reef the main quickly, I furled the headsail to stop it flogging, turned the engine on and went head to wind, furled the reef in the main (stb tack), and went back on our course, engine back off again. Easy, took minutes, and all from the cockpit, but yes, I personally used the engine to get the job done and hold the angle to the wind I wanted. When furling you don’t want the clue to rise (else the sail can bunch up), so having the boom out far from the centerline flogging about does you no favours here, so holding to bow to the wind with the engine allows control to get a tidy, neat and tight furl.

In those winds, for us, the friction would have been too great to furl downwind, even with the boom centralised. As soon as you would let a tiny bit go from the outhaul the sail would glue itself to the mast. I asked Selden about furling on any other angle of the wind, they replied with:

We would advise for you to always furl the sail head to wind, this is so that the sail isn’t full, therefore taking the load off of your furling mechanism.

As well as making your furling and life a lot easier it will also help to improve the longevity of your system.

I hope you find this information to your benefit.

I can understand why Selden would say that, it makes furling easier on the crew and the loads are reduced. It is basically what had to be done in the days before in-mast furling and stack packs. I can't say I do it often and I certainly don't have to go head to wind to furl - it's easier on upwind points of sail - but it's also a trade-off, I'll head up wind if there's not much in the way of sea-state as adding spray and cresting waves to the mix also has an effect on crew.

I would also imagine that the forces required to furl are not any greater than the shock loads experienced by the furling gear in a crash gybe or a broach. I did have one errant crew member put the furling line on the electric winch the wrong way round and it was pulling directly against the ratchet mechanism, I noticed when the sail wasn't going in and there were a quick series of loud bangs from the mast as the continuous line skipped on the drum ... god knows what had been going on before it skipped as the line was melted in places. Everything still seems to function OK but I will be checking it over winter and replacing the furling line.

Thinking about it though, I don't often use my main beyond a beam reach if the wind is properly strong, just the genoa is enough to achieve hull speed, so the majority of my heavy weather reefing on the main is on upwind courses where just easing the main sheet allows trouble free reefing.

Topping out around 8,4 knots under reefed genny .... nice comfortable speed with no drama.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Well I had slab, aka jiffy reefing, jam at the top sheave off Porto in a huge swell. I have had a reefing pendant fail and a gooseneck snap at the rams horn. Over the years multiple luff slider snaps. Slab reefing can have issues as well.

 

[requiem]

Most of the boats I'm on these days have in-mast furling. As others have mentioned, proper technique and maintenance will avoid problems.

For older folk in particular, not needing someone to go on deck when reefing or lowering the main is a significant safety advantage.

 

[ylop]

I don’t have in mast furling on my boat, but have used them on charter boats.

I’ve never tried in mast furling but this point tells you that most of the doom sayers are exaggerated! If it was particularly tricky to get right charterers would be forever causing the operator headaches; if resolving jams took a long time or specialist skills charter operators would hate it because of cost/availability problems. Now charter boats may start their life as new but by the time the leave charter many a sail will have been hard worked.

 

[Lightwave395]

The arguments, or should I say preferences seem about even to me, although seeing it mentioned several times, with single line reefing and half decent batten cars you shouldn't need to go out of the cockpit to reef and all it takes to drop the main should be bang the halyard clutch

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I’ve never tried in mast furling but this point tells you that most of the doom sayers are exaggerated! If it was particularly tricky to get right charterers would be forever causing the operator headaches; if resolving jams took a long time or specialist skills charter operators would hate it because of cost/availability problems. Now charter boats may start their life as new but by the time the leave charter many a sail will have been hard worked.

We obviously are not devotees of in mast reefing. But I have relatively recently sailed on a boat with it, for the first time. It’s certainly convenient and easy to use. Quicker to reef than our slab reefing, but there’s no getting around the issue of sail shape. Both geometric when not reefed, and fullness when part reefed. Things are better than they used to be I am sure. But I think the dividing line is still in the same place as always. Performance orientated sailors, and traditionalists will always veer towards slab. Cruising sailors who have no racing aspirations or particular desire to push the boat’s envelope will be well served by a furling main. I am happy to leave charter operators to their headaches.