if you wanted to spend up to 30k

Birdseye · 7 Jul 2015

on a boat that you could club race and weekend cruise - plus it must be able to dry out. What would you chose?

Birdseye · 7 Jul 2015

nobody got any ideas? I'm talking NHC type racing the idea being that at some near point I will be selling the big cruising boat that doesnt go anywhere and just enjoying racing at my local club and the occasional weekend away. The balance being spent on other toys.

Triassic · 7 Jul 2015

I'm slightly biased but you might just get a half reasonable F24 Farrier trimaran for that..... Engaging, exciting sailing, room to weekend cruise, and you can keep it on a trailer at home. Does it get any better?

roblpm · 7 Jul 2015

I think the resounding silence may be due to the drying requirement? I sail and race on the Firth of Forth and the only 2 boats that race and can dry are my Parker 275 and another identical one. And drying is ocassional and not regular.
I don't think my boat would do well on a drying mooring. I got it more for shallow draft and sometimes staying overnight at a drying harbour.

So is the drying requirement for a half tide mooring? I am not sure about a lift keeler for this due to mud up the keel box? But maybe I am wrong. In which case a parker may suit. Bit tender but sail well. No parker 275s for sale?! How about a 31? http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/forsale/boats.aspx

How about a Sadler 290? Bilge keel but quite quick? Too expensive?! None for sale?!

Then I think maybe the fastest older bilge keel is a Fulmar.

I looked at the py ratings on byron software. I think the problem with racing is that its no fun coming in half an hour behind every one else and winning on handicap?

I should have asked at the beginning what racing you are planning on doing and what other boats are in the fleet?

lpdsn · 7 Jul 2015

birdseye said:
on a boat that you could club race and weekend cruise - plus it must be able to dry out. What would you chose?

I'd give up on the drying requirement and get a Dehler 31.

Or modify the drying requirement to a shallow water requirement, rob a few banks to increase the budget, and get a Pogo 10.5 (IRC kills them, but you won't care)

flaming · 8 Jul 2015

The drying thing is the big issue. Bene First 27.7? Not got a good rep as a racer though.

Struggling to think of anything more recent with a lift keel. There's the J95, but you'd never get one for £30k even if there were lots to choose from.

MissFitz · 15 Jul 2015

Django 7.50? No idea how fast they are or how they're handicapped (I assume not well) but have got to be quicker & more fun than traditional bilge keelers. Have an idea that there's also a lifting keel version but can't find one for sale at the moment (on a very quick search).
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=432871

Birdseye · 16 Jul 2015

roblpm said:
I think the resounding silence may be due to the drying requirement? I sail and race on the Firth of Forth and the only 2 boats that race and can dry are my Parker 275 and another identical one. And drying is ocassional and not regular.
I don't think my boat would do well on a drying mooring. I got it more for shallow draft and sometimes staying overnight at a drying harbour.

So is the drying requirement for a half tide mooring? I am not sure about a lift keeler for this due to mud up the keel box? But maybe I am wrong. In which case a parker may suit. Bit tender but sail well. No parker 275s for sale?! How about a 31? http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/forsale/boats.aspx

How about a Sadler 290? Bilge keel but quite quick? Too expensive?! None for sale?!

Then I think maybe the fastest older bilge keel is a Fulmar.

I looked at the py ratings on byron software. I think the problem with racing is that its no fun coming in half an hour behind every one else and winning on handicap?

I should have asked at the beginning what racing you are planning on doing and what other boats are in the fleet?

The drying requirement is for the Bristol channel where there is either more than enough water or none, depending on tide. Mostly soft mud bottoms but as an ex industrial area, a lot of rubbish on the sea bed so nervous about drop keelers. Most of the boats used / raced here are bilge.

roblpm · 16 Jul 2015

The forth dries. Here are the forth div 2 handicaps

http://www.fyca.org.uk/Handicaps/2015 Handicaps/index.php?division=HandicapDiv2

So my take on it is a westerly fulmar bilge.

What else would you be racing against? I was advised against getting anything too slow as otherwise you cross the line way behind and then maybe move up the results on handicap. Not much fun.

We are rubbish but beat 5 boats over the line last night. Very satisfying!!

roblpm · 16 Jul 2015

Backed up by the handicaps off here.

http://www.ilfracombeyc.org.uk/

Fulmar looms popular. Moody S31 or older 31 mk2?

Or smaller seems like lots of centaur?!

Boo2 · 16 Jul 2015

birdseye said:
on a boat that you could club race and weekend cruise - plus it must be able to dry out. What would you chose?

Limbo 9.9 ?

Boo2

mrming · 17 Jul 2015

Parker 31? Dries on it's big sturdy lifting wing keel, goes like the clappers. You might just get one for 30k although they're a bit rare.

roblpm · 17 Jul 2015

mrming said:
Parker 31? Dries on it's big sturdy lifting wing keel, goes like the clappers. You might just get one for 30k although they're a bit rare.

4 for sale herehttp://www.parkerseal.org.uk/forsale/boats.aspx#parker31

RobF · 29 Jul 2015

The mud in the Bristol channel is so soft you can park a fin keeler into it pretty safely. I had a similar dilemma and went for a Jeanneau 29.2 which is seems to perform pretty well. She's light which makes her quick, but won't punch through the Severn chop as easily as a heavy long keeler. As always, it's a compromise. You can always buy some legs if you do want to dry out in the likes of Ilfracombe.

E39mad · 30 Jul 2015

Parker 31 been mentioned.

There was a lift keel version of the First 305 but may require legs to sit upright.

Dufour 30 integral - one for sale atm

Feeling 32

Birdseye · 2 Aug 2015

RobF said:
You can always buy some legs if you do want to dry out in the likes of Ilfracombe.

Yes I do want to dry in Combe but as for legs - no way.

jwilson · 3 Aug 2015

birdseye said:
The drying requirement is for the Bristol channel where there is either more than enough water or none, depending on tide. Mostly soft mud bottoms but as an ex industrial area, a lot of rubbish on the sea bed so nervous about drop keelers. Most of the boats used / raced here are bilge.

You don't really want a lift-keeler in the Bristol Channel, if you actually want to cruise as well as race. Too many chances of hull damage to the bilge from uneven bottoms with occasional stony bits. Iron bilge keels (not encapsulated) are what you need, which really ties it down to Sadlers or British Hunters. Without being patronising, Bristol Channel racing is fairly low-level compared to Cowes/Hamble. It is though very skilled in terms of use of tides, eddies, etc.

Sadler 34 or British Hunter 31 should be achievable with 30K, maybe a bit more for a really good one. You should get a really good Sadler 32 for that, possibly the best compromise. Otherwise a Westerly Fulmar, as others have said.

bitbaltic · 3 Aug 2015

jwilson said:
You don't really want a lift-keeler in the Bristol Channel, if you actually want to cruise as well as race. Too many chances of hull damage to the bilge from uneven bottoms with occasional stony bits. Iron bilge keels (not encapsulated) are what you need

There are a LOT of cruising lift keelers in the Bristol Channel, although I think this is a consequence of the lack of modern bilge keel choices and the fact that a lot of people decide they need a bigger and newer/new boat after a season or two here (there's a common phenomenon of cruising skippers struggling with the sea state on a windy day and choosing to tackle it through bigger boats in preference to seamanship). Personally I think a fin (or fin-type; I have a shoal draft wing) keel is what you need here, either racing or crusing. Making progress into wind/tide/sea state can be tough enough without too many underwater compromises. And all the shiny new lift keel boats I know spend all of their time in marinas anyway.

Cheers

jwilson · 3 Aug 2015

bitbaltic said:
There are a LOT of cruising lift keelers in the Bristol Channel, although I think this is a consequence of the lack of modern bilge keel choices .... snipped ..... And all the shiny new lift keel boats I know spend all of their time in marinas anyway.
Cheers

Exactly: how many of these 'cruising lift-keelers' go into the really interesting places, Lynmouth, Porlock, Clovelly, and on the Welsh coast Solva etc. etc.

Birdseye · 3 Sep 2015

Have you seen the steps that Lynmouth berthed boats have to take against surge? I would doubt the ability of a lift keel benny to cope with being banged up and down on the sand

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