If you must criticize Ellen

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Knockers, Trolls and Existensialism

Actually I was worried that it was the knocker knockers that were doing the trolling /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Ian said words to the effect that he thought she did rather well. I am unaware of any post made on these forums which does anything to say differently to that (I do concede that I don't read every post though). The criticsms I see (and side with) are mostly all to do with the publicity and presentation, by both herself and the management (with some questions, not necessarily criticisms, about the role of shore support and electronic aids). It is the knocker knockers who convert these into personal matters of destructive force.

She is not perfect (I assume) so she must be open to criticism, surely?

I am nearly purrfect, so I accept some criticism (but only a little teeny bit, except from Woofys) and so should she /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[iangrant]

I agree the hype is overtaking the event now.
Looking forward to the next one.. interesting to see what is will be, and good luck to anyone who has a go.

Ian

 

[Ohdrat]

Re: Knockers, Trolls and Existensialism

It's all this Post Modern Hype I agree.. self referential stuff that really is soooo over the top... I do wonder whether it isn't partly to do with the relatively low profile sailing has compared to say footie that marketing and publicity bods over egg it as a means to compensate..

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: If you must criticise Ellen

The more I am told that I should not question anything for fear of receiving the black spot on the forum, the more I question. What is it you are scared of, people not thinking like you or you actually opening up a little and changing your views on something.

I criticised the exposure both during and after the event. I, personally, that is me, my views, my wishes, my preferences would prefer not to endure the lowest moments of Ellen's trip.

I have said this before, I want my heroes to be bigger than life, untouchable, hard, determined, strong. I do not want to see them cry because they might not get the record, things are going wrong, or they are cold.

I have (as I said previously) no doubt Shakleton was whingeing like a baby in his state room when he was alone, Scott and Oats blubbered like big girls when it was obvious things had gone so disastrously wrong. I am sure that Hillary wanted to come down off the mountain when he started to experience pain like nothing else.

RKJ was probably ready to jump a few times when the weather was throwing Suhali around. When Campbell was against the wall and it looked over, he played poker all night with the crew, his final words, 'Oh, she's going'.

But..... I do not know of their whingeing, I am sure if I read in depth books about these exploits I would, but I don't want to, they are heroes, they pushed the limits. Ellen is on my list of heroes (don't worry Ian), I just feel I can empathise with her now and I don't want to, she should be bigger than that IMO.

If you read that as a criticism of Ellen, then you have sadly missed the point I have previously made, as TCM and many others have said, there was too much exposure.

Am I supposed to list all my sailing experiences now, in order to satisfy the forum police.

 

[Peppermint]

Re: To be honest

I've never doubted for a minute I could sail B&Q singlehanded. It's just a boat and it's designed to be sailed solo.

I do doubt that they could get enough "London Pride" & "Fray Bentos" onboard to get me round the Island let alone round the World.

 

[MarineImage]

I guess it must be a good thing that this forum has counter opinions on this achievement. I'm just not for counter opinions for the sake of them. Nor am I convinced that some 'knockers' have stopped to think what those 71 days were really like. Coming close to capsize in any big boat is scary - a bit more so on your own in the southern ocean!

As tests of human spirit go - it's right up there with the highest of them in my opinion.

Congratulations Ellen, backers, boat-builders, shore-team and anyone else who made it happen.

Anyone any ideas whether Ellen has been knocked in France?!

 

[ubuysa]

I often think that "the British" in general aren't comfortable with success. You seem to be better thought of if you fail heroically than if you succeed as planned. I wonder why that is?

Anyway I watched Ellen on the tv last night and was immensely impressed by her courage. I'd have been a gibbering wreck hiding in one of the lockers were I faced with what she put up with. Good on yer girl, and very well done!!

Tony C.

 

[zefender]

Crouch End speaks...

There's quite a big difference between Labour's financial management of UK plc and that of the previous Tory regime. For a start, and probably most significantly, interest rate controls were placed outside of Downing St (of whatever number). If our Tone adopted the spending plans of the previous government, then why are the Tories sqawking so? The dome was the brainchild of the Conservative government and its potential rather uncharacteristically bodged by Michael Heseltine. The fact is that our Tone has presided over the most economically successful sustainted period of growth of any post war PM.

...and I think Chichester's and RKJ's achievements were far greater than Ellen's since their's was about absolute self-reliance and there's something about the spirit of amateurism which is missing from the Ellen achievement, given the multi-millions involved and the 24/7 back up sqad in constant touch.

 

[iangrant]

Re: Crouch End speaks...

Putting aside the political stuff!

When you read the accounts of fear in the southern ocean from the older hands, the look on Ellens face in the southern ocean just went to show that it is just as scary with a mobile 'phone or gadget in your hand now, as it was then without.

Especially when you are doing 25kts that close to an iceberg!

Ian

 

[Sans Bateau]

"I often think that "the British" in general aren't comfortable with success. You seem to be better thought of if you fail heroically than if you succeed as planned. I wonder why that is?"

Spot on Tony, that is exactly what I was thinking.

But more to the point, if there had not been the media 'hype' covering Ellens success, then we would all be writing here complaining at the lack of coverage, which is what we are used to.


.

 

[zefender]

Re: Crouch End speaks...

I sort of agree really. But I do think it would be a lot more scary not even knowing there was an iceberg ahead (beyond the horizon) or an inbound depression a few hundred miles away and nobody whatsoever to discuss it with. It's all a bit different from RKJ chucking a few hundred metres of warp out the back in the hope it would keep him above the water. And he made his own curry unlike Ellen who seemed to be in a dreadful quandry about whether to boil a kettle to make some dried slop or to have a sleep, body condition remotely monitored from Cowes, download and study another grib file etc. RKJ and Chichester's achievement was about endurance and survival. Ellen's was primarily about speed and the record. My only gripe was that the two have got a bit confused in B&Qs case.

As an aside, one thing I did pick up from the TV prog is that Dame Ellen speaks rather good french - where'd she pick that up then?

 

[jimi]

Madamoiselle Arthurpierre

Is'nt she from around Ashby de la Zouche ?

 

[tcm]

nice try!

um, it's the likes of the IMF who quote tone as riding on the results of thatcherism, whilst the labour party machine keeps referring to "wasted years". Spose that in doing the same as the tories yet slagging them off - that might windem up?

So you (and the beeb, and everyone) is right to say that the govt has "presided over" the economy - but this damning with very faint praise. I myself have presided over the largest ever burst of plant growth in our back garden since records began.

I agree entirely with your final paragraph.

 

[Ohdrat]

Re: Ellen\'s French

Is sooo good cus she operated from France before she was recognised in the UK..

 

[zefender]

Green with envy

Quite right, you deserve all the tut-tuting you doubtless are receiving for being inevitably responsible for such neglect. When jungles become popular again (the tide is turning shurly) no longer will neglect be used to describe it, but design. Tone is responsible for design (at present).

 

[Ohdrat]

Re: Achievements

or even Clair Francis and Slocum.

 

[Evadne]

Straying into politics again..

I don't normally bother posting views on politics 'cos arguing never changes anybody's mind but since we're going down that road in this sub-thread...
If Labour have presided over a successful economy then I suppose you would say that during the eighties Maggi, and later the charismatic John Major, "presided over" the worst economic depression since the second world war. But of course it wasn't their fault it was "world economics". This was despite their sucking out vast sums of money that had previously been spent on the welfare state and NHS and putting it in the pockets of businessmen and higher rate taxpayers. Who rewarded them by creating a huge housing and stock exchange bubble in the UK which fuelled a recession when it inevitably burst. It is also despite having the benefit of the biggest economic windfall (North sea oil) enjoyed by any British government. They're not perfect, but I know who I'd rather have running the show.

 

[iangrant]

Re: Straying into politics again..

Or does the show run them I wonder?

Ian

 

[tcm]

Re: Straying into fairy stories now ...

ooh, well, it's an angle innit? I like the bit where the government "sucks out" money to give it those bastard businessmen - almost making it sound as though the money actually belonged to the government, nearly.

Unsuprisingly, the imf and most independent analysis disgaree with your view. Still there always hope eh? - perhaps the on/off labour plan to join the euro might get going next year - just as the germans as rushing for the exit...

 

[Ohdrat]

Re: Straying into politics again..

There are 2 points that come to mind

Thatcher completely "re-structured" the UK economy and it hurt.. This occured well ahead of any of the Continental economies particularly those of Germany and France. Germany also took on a huge liability when it unified.

also

UK economy has been stable under GB's presiding thingy although world economy has not

Re whos running who.. more and more I think it is down to Global Economy and Multi Nationals and much less Govt.