If you had to choose a <£30k yacht from the market right now, which would it be?

[salad]

I think if it’s the one in Troon ? Might be just worth a look - has all the comfort you might want but perhaps not a first sailboat. They have a lovely quality to them - dare I say a poor man’s Jongert in grp.

Which one are we talking about? The 33 with Mark Cameron, "Jolanda"? Made me think of Pulp Fiction.

It's nice, just went under offer at £73k. Condition appeared very good. All in all, Mark Cameron seem to have a nice selection at not ridiculous prices. They all appear very clean.

Jongerts are lovely boats, I was honoured to spend a weekend on a fairly big one some time back. You're right, not too dissimilar. The professionally fitted Colvic's are of a similar ilk in the teak department. Personally, I love the look and by heck is it durable but the varnishing, oh, the varnishing.

 

[ylop]

All good dont worry.

I'm very marine oriented so not concerned about whether I like boating or not, this will be our first proper boat aside from ribs, and we have wanted this for decades, so not a new idea.

I don’t think anyone doubts YOUR commitment, but ribbing and yachting are about as comparable as rock climbing and camping. Even if you love both it doesn’t follow that your loved ones will. It’s really easy to find that out without risking loads.

Thats a shame about that couple. Hopefully they at least made a profit on their endeavours.

even in todays market nobody truely makes a profit.

My crystal balls say prices will dip in May, so the whole situation may change.

mystic Meg disagrees! People buying today are not really buying to sail in 2022 they are buying to ensure they have something ready to go in April/May. If other people thought there would be a drop at the start of next season they would be hesitant to buy now meaning there would be less demand now and prices would fall (or at least plateau). Nobody seems to be reporting that. A crash/correction should happen because the prices are bonkers but I can’t see it happening that quickly. I think you will need at least two of these things to happen:
1. International holiday travel to be back to normal (Covid is old news for holiday travel but airlines are chaos and prices are high)
2. A dreadful British summer - perhaps even two of them.
3. Supply chain issues across the world to be sorted so new yachts are available the same season they are ordered and supply is above demand so new prices fall.
4. Economic pressures to hit the comfortably well off who have five or six figures to spend on toys.

I think we might see a plateau in 2023. I can’t see a fall. The boats which fall first will be the grotty ones, the broken dreams, the “cheap” deal that’s now cost double the purchase price in yard fees etc. The gap between nightmare money pit and comfortable family boat may continue to get bigger.

 

[salad]

I don’t think anyone doubts YOUR commitment, but ribbing and yachting are about as comparable as rock climbing and camping. Even if you love both it doesn’t follow that your loved ones will. It’s really easy to find that out without risking loads.

even in todays market nobody truely makes a profit.
mystic Meg disagrees! People buying today are not really buying to sail in 2022 they are buying to ensure they have something ready to go in April/May. If other people thought there would be a drop at the start of next season they would be hesitant to buy now meaning there would be less demand now and prices would fall (or at least plateau). Nobody seems to be reporting that. A crash/correction should happen because the prices are bonkers but I can’t see it happening that quickly. I think you will need at least two of these things to happen:
1. International holiday travel to be back to normal (Covid is old news for holiday travel but airlines are chaos and prices are high)
2. A dreadful British summer - perhaps even two of them.
3. Supply chain issues across the world to be sorted so new yachts are available the same season they are ordered and supply is above demand so new prices fall.
4. Economic pressures to hit the comfortably well off who have five or six figures to spend on toys.

I think we might see a plateau in 2023. I can’t see a fall. The boats which fall first will be the grotty ones, the broken dreams, the “cheap” deal that’s now cost double the purchase price in yard fees etc. The gap between nightmare money pit and comfortable family boat may continue to get bigger.

I hope you're right.

 

[mrming]

My amateur market analysis based on too much time watching the classifieds for no reason other than entertainment
- A lot of the “covid dreamer” boats at the lower end (sub £35k) of the market are now reappearing for sale.
- Values are falling for boats in that price bracket that are not in very solid condition.
- There’s still a supply problem with new boats as noted above, meaning prices for quality boats in good condition are unlikely to drop any time soon.
- The OP may get lucky with someone who needs to offload a large motor sailor in great condition in a hurry, but the odds are low. I would expect asking prices for those to remain solid for the next 12 months at least. These boats also have a market as live aboards so sellers will not just be reliant on people with free time and money to buy them.

Not what the OP is now looking for, but the only “bargains” will be the same ones as before the pandemic: tired, older, boats, some of which could be brought back by someone with time and skills who doesn’t mind not going sailing immediately.

 

[bignick]

There’s an old adage in boat buying/ownership which is to buy the smallest boat that you can manage with rather than the largest boat that you can afford. The costs of maintenance, haul out, parts, etc go up rapidly with size. It’s easy to get sucked into the argument that it’s only a little bigger, and go around and around the loop, until you’ve stretched your budget right up to its limit, or even past it.

I’d recommend set your final budget and remove 5-10% for contingencies. On top, factor in the cost of replacing anything that needs updating. when you look at it. You‘ll quickly realise that it makes more sense to buy the one that’s better maintained, even if it’s a bit more expensive.

 

[Stemar]

I’d recommend set your final budget and remove 5-10% for contingencies. On top, factor in the cost of replacing anything that needs updating.

Always remembering, when you do your sums, that everything will take twice as long and cost twice as much as you think - if you're lucky.

 

[V1701]

If you can afford a larger nauticat they are lovely if you like that style of boat. I once looked at an old 33 mkI wooden top that was so tired, the whole of the outside wood had been daubed in some horrible brown sludge and in person it felt a lot more cramped inside than I was expecting. The newer 33s with outside steering, bigger aft cabin with sometimes a double berth, all fibreglass are much nicer. Somebody said CWs are very variable in terms of finish, that's absolutely the case some are pretty bad others very good. I've seen CW34s with quite different layouts as well.
Re the market I wouldn't have thought you'd lose significant money if you choose well without paying over the odds in the first place, look after it properly and sell it a few years down the line...

 

[bignick]

Another slight variation on a theme - if you look at a lot of the YouTube streamers who travel in colder climes, then many have a full cockpit enclosure. Limiting yourself to motor sailers of this type limits your options and puts you in a niche market, so you may end up paying more for the privilege.
You could go a different route and buy a bigger sailing yacht and reserve some money for a cockpit enclosure, however, this would only be viable on the much larger boat budget.

 

[sails_02]

My amateur market analysis based on too much time watching the classifieds for no reason other than entertainment

As a fellow "browser" of perhaps less persistent nature than you, I've wondered if there is some indicator that would proxy your feeling of "slower sales in the range"

I noted that there are 4 pages of ~relevant used boats, but I think a more useful indicator would be time to sell or number of price reductions or re-listings.

I use a tool for property that indicates trends, highlights price changes, re-listings and it is quite useful
PropertyData - Data, Info & Analysis

 

[Supertramp]

Another slight variation on a theme - if you look at a lot of the YouTube streamers who travel in colder climes, then many have a full cockpit enclosure. Limiting yourself to motor sailers of this type limits your options and puts you in a niche market, so you may end up paying more for the privilege.
You could go a different route and buy a bigger sailing yacht and reserve some money for a cockpit enclosure, however, this would only be viable on the much larger boat budget.

I think this is wise advice.

The features you describe like bulwarks, pilot/wheelhouse, ketch rig are very nice but boats featuring them are rare, usually older and will command a significant premium. I chose one, find it satisfying and practical but am under no illusion that I could have had a similar size boat for half the cost.

The cockpit enclosure is a good compromise, especially if it folds away easily. My experience of family sailing is to have plenty of space, separate cabins, and a design that doesn't scare the wits out of the kids by heeling over too much, throwing water everywhere, rounding up unexpectedly or slamming in head seas.

This probably why centre cockpit Moody/Westerly/Beneteau about 36ft are popular. As said before, maintenance and condition are the key to a good buy.

 

[ylop]

I noted that there are 4 pages of ~relevant used boats, but I think a more useful indicator would be time to sell or number of price reductions or re-listings.

I think time to sell is a good proxy. In the current market if a broker hasn't got it under offer/sale pending within a month then either its priced too high, there's something significant wrong with it, or there's so much interest they are confident they will get the full price (or all 3!). Unfortunately, private sellers aren't so diligent at updating advert status and there pricing seems more erratic too. Some brokers seem to be aware that old ads look bad (or at least don't show up near the top of many searches) and will withdraw ads then relist a day or too later with seemingly no changes! There is seasonality to boat sales so I don't think you can spot trends over weeks or months, you really need to compare to this time last year.

 

[sails_02]

I think time to sell is a good proxy. In the current market if a broker hasn't got it under offer/sale pending within a month then either its priced too high, there's something significant wrong with it, or there's so much interest they are confident they will get the full price (or all 3!). Unfortunately, private sellers aren't so diligent at updating advert status and there pricing seems more erratic too. Some brokers seem to be aware that old ads look bad (or at least don't show up near the top of many searches) and will withdraw ads then relist a day or too later with seemingly no changes! There is seasonality to boat sales so I don't think you can spot trends over weeks or months, you really need to compare to this time last year.

Yes agreed. Time to sell is ideal. The issue as you describe is with spotty data.

The linked PropertyData app tracks re-listings quite well, but this is because houses have a canonical reference (the address) so it is always possible to re-identify a listing. Not so with boats in any useful way