If I buy a boat in Spain will I need the ICC to sail localy.

[capnsensible]

I have taken no offence Mr. T.

I've long since learned to cope with the 'athletically minded' posters who crop up on forums everywhere, dodging the facts, leap frogging the obvious and jumping to conclusions!

 

[moomba]

May I then be so bold to ask a simple question , what is the wisest path to follow for certification for insurance reduction and worldwide cruising , I am in the process of getting everything ready for a circumnavigation in a year or 2 and was about to sign up for offshore certification just for fun and hopefully reducing my insurance , or is it just better to get the ICC although this would be pulling teeth , will it be money better spent in the long term

 

[capnsensible]

Personally, I would recommend the Yachtmaster route...its gonna get you an ICC as a by product anyway.

Obviously more expensive but what do you get out of it is the good question.

From what I see, getting out of the cruising mode and practcsing all sorts of yacht manouvers, berakdowns, MOB, thorough testing on all aspects of IRPCS, anchoring, reefing, all sorts of stuff that you may already know, but done over and over to build your skill and confidence is worth the wonga.

And its someone elses boat you are chukkin around all over the place! I mean, who drives a hire car like its their own....

Regarding Insurers, think they all have different ideas. Worth asking yours before you invest a wad if thats the sole reason.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tranona]

Certification in general has little impact on insurance premiums. However if you are looking for long distance insurance you will be asked all sorts of questions about your experience and skills, so clearly having a full Yachtmaster will be a big tick, whereas an ICC will mean very little if anything.

Risks in coastal and Med leisure sailing are low so relatively easy to get insurance. Risks rise when you go outside these areas such as crossing Biscay for a start so you will start to get more restrictions and more questioning about your experience and planned passages. So the quotes become individual to you, your boat and your circumstances

 

[moomba]

yep I though so. I think in the med the ICC might be the way to go but for UK insurance it will always recognise the RYA qualification as the standard , and most ,and this is meant for mainly the Caribbean and south America countries I don't think they give a hoot about your Qualifications,
so to be honest I am going to go down the RYA route and hopefully my premiums will drop
thanks for the input

 

[Tranona]

Presumably you will insure with a UK company so the countries you will visit are not interested so long as they see your certificate of insurance - if they are interested at all. You will find most countries in Europe insist on insurance and some (Spain, Greece, Portugal for example) will expect to see the certificate translated. Your insurer will provide this for you.

 

[JamesFrance]

Tranona and Sensible if the icc can only be obtained following examination in navigation and rules of the road I will happily agree that I am out of date and you have specialist knowledge of this subject.

 

[macd]

Tranona and Sensible if the icc can only be obtained following examination in navigation and rules of the road I will happily agree that I am out of date and you have specialist knowledge of this subject.

The "specialist knowledge" is hardly a secret. The requirements are detailed on page three of this RYA ICC application form: https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/cruising/Web Documents/Boating Abroad/ICC Form.pdf
I suspect that many, perhaps a majority, of UK ICC holders qualify by virtue of other RYA qualifications rather than through specific ICC courses/tests.

 

[capnsensible]

Tranona and Sensible if the icc can only be obtained following examination in navigation and rules of the road I will happily agree that I am out of date and you have specialist knowledge of this subject.

I posted the link to the RYA site that includes the test form detailing the requirements. It covers a broad range of practical and theory questions and demonstrations of ability. It is basic and encourages a safe approach to boats as directed by the UN rules.

There are alternative ways of qualifying for an ICC without testing, for example being awarded a Day Skipper Practical Course Completion Certificate. Simply because this covers all parts of the ICC test.

Its all there on the link.

 

[Tony Cross]

I just think that an ICC, which requires no knowledge of navigation or even rules for preventing collisions at sea, but is simply proof of being taught basic boat handling, could be considered to be proof of competence. It's laughable bureaucratic nonsense.

The UN Economic Commission for Europe (Inland Transport Committee) that introduced the ICC in Resolution 40 (http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2013/sc3wp3/ECE-TRANS-SC3-147-rev3e.pdf) says the following:

For the issue of an international certificate the applicant must:

(a) have reached the age of 16;

(b) be physically and mentally fit to operate a pleasure craft, and in particular,
must have sufficient powers of vision and hearing;

(c) have successfully passed an examination to prove the necessary competence
for pleasure craft operation.

2. The applicant has to prove in an examination:

(a) sufficient knowledge of the regulations concerning pleasure craft operation
and nautical and technical knowledge required for safe navigation on inland waters and/or
coastal waters; and

(b) the ability to apply this knowledge in practice

This examination shall be held with regard to the zones of navigation (i.e. inland
waters and/or coastal waters) and must include at least the following specific subjects:

3.1 Sufficient knowledge of the relevant regulations and nautical publications:
Traffic regulations applicable on inland waters, in particular CEVNI
(European Code for Inland Waterways), and/or in coastal waters, in particular the
Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, including aids to navigation (marking
and buoyage of waterways).

3.2 Ability to apply the nautical and technical knowledge in practice:

(a) general knowledge of craft, use and carriage of safety equipment and
serviceability of the engine/sails;

(b) operating the craft and understanding the influence of wind, current,
interaction and limited keel clearance;

(c) conduct during meeting and overtaking other vessels;

(d) anchoring and mooring under all conditions;

(e) manoeuvring in locks and ports;

(f) general knowledge of weather conditions;

(g) general knowledge of navigation, in particular establishing a position
and deciding a safe course.

3.3 Conduct under special circumstances:

(a) principles of accident prevention (e.g. man over board manoeuvre);

(b) action in case of collisions, engine failure and running aground,
including the sealing of a leak, assistance in cases of emergency;

(c) use of lifesaving devices and equipment;

(d) fire prevention and fire fighting;

(e) avoiding water pollution.

You statement here is thus factually incorrect in its entirety.

 

[Contest1]

In my recently acquired ICC the sailing was easy bit even though it was a rough day in an unfamiliar boat which was really unsuitable for the weather.
A class of fairly mature and experienced club sailors struggled with the theory. I was ok as I had done the day skipper theory some years ago but it was tough on the guys who's main experience was the 3 point race circuit!