ICC

[Newbroom]

What is every bodies understanding of the need for an ICC for coastal use in the majority of countries in Europe.
My reason for asking is that I have been asked for mine when being boarded but I was told recently that it is not needed for coastal waters. This paragraph from the RYA seems to support that view.

In very general terms an ICC is recommended for the inland waterways of Europe and for inland and coastal waters of Mediterranean countries. For the coastal waters of Northern Europe the ICC is generally not required, however to all of these generalisations there are exceptions.

Belgium
Applied
Coastal: not required
Inland: ICC required for vessels over 15m in length or capable of more than 20km/h (approx. 11 knots), otherwise not required

Dave

 

[DavidJ]

I think it depends whether you want a conversation, in your best spanish, with the Gardia Civil to explain that us Brits don’t need a licence.
Best of luck there.

 

[maby]

As I understand it, it is only a legal requirement for inland waters but it's a good idea to have one for coastal cruising because, unlike most of the continent, Britain does not have any mandatory qualifications for sailing. Most European authorities regard a British ICC as an informal licence for coastal sailing.

 

[Portofino]

I suspect it all depends if you are transient or permanent. Different set of rules .Own flag if transient but if permanent hmm .

Some years ago I did the French Permit d Mer .Already had some RYA stuff but its never made sense to me hiding behind your flag while permanently ensconced in a foreign country .Kinda figures that out in my imitable way
Skipped the ICC .

To date it’s been low down on officialdoms priorities.I have never been asked for the qualification, but I just tip all the bumf out on the cockpit table in front of “ inspector Clusoe “ so he sees it during the rummage .

Wether Brussels have cottoned on and issuing directives to trickle down to officials, sort of unify in writing what they need to tick off .......who knows it will happen eventually I think .

There’s a lot of maritime stuff floating about ( no pun intended) re borders / boats / people / safety in the EU .So imho it’s creeping upstairs so to speak .
After Brexit we loose influence on this .

This argument regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago, it's rare these days for checks, and not really enforced in other EU states like Fr , Sp and IT .
They could if they wanted but there’s a lot of blind eyes out there re qualifications.

Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...s-boat-safety-regulations#lBav9DW06o4xF3v2.99

 

[Newbroom]

Does anybody know a case of the ICC being asked for in coastal waters and or action being taken for not having one.

Dave

 

[julians]

I've been asked for my icc and other papers( insurance etc) in mallorca a few years ago.

Well actually they didn't ask for my icc specifically, they asked for my licence, and I gave them my icc.

Not sure what would have happened if I couldn't produce it.

 

[Hurricane]

I have just renewed mine.
But I have never been asked for it.

 

[TonyR123]

I have just renewed mine.
But I have never been asked for it.

How long does the icc last? Am assuming something like 10 years?

 

[rafiki_]

How long does the icc last? Am assuming something like 10 years?

It is a 5 year cycle. I have one for chartering. Most charter companies require an ICC as some proof of competence.

 

[lambohill]

Does anybody know a case of the ICC being asked for in coastal waters and or action being taken for not having one.

Dave

I and a few others were boarded this summer, and asked for all papers, this included passports, insurance, boat registration and 'captains license' for the particular length. This was all by Guardia civil. They did not request icc per se, however it was particular length and license for same. The ICC for right length was simplest document to produce, although others presented dayskipper etc at the tonnage and did not have a problem.
I checked with various sources (RYA local, Guardia civil and the Marina officials) and ALL have claimed that the only correct document is the ICC at the right length in the med for Spain. Otherwise its a chain boat up till you produce it - again according to the local Guardia civil.

 

[Hurricane]

I and a few others were boarded this summer, and asked for all papers, this included passports, insurance, boat registration and 'captains license' for the particular length. This was all by Guardia civil. They did not request icc per se, however it was particular length and license for same. The ICC for right length was simplest document to produce, although others presented dayskipper etc at the tonnage and did not have a problem.
I checked with various sources (RYA local, Guardia civil and the Marina officials) and ALL have claimed that the only correct document is the ICC at the right length in the med for Spain. Otherwise its a chain boat up till you produce it - again according to the local Guardia civil.

What part of Spain were you boarded?

 

[MapisM]

I checked with various sources (RYA local, Guardia civil and the Marina officials) and ALL have claimed that the only correct document is the ICC at the right length in the med for Spain. Otherwise its a chain boat up till you produce it - again according to the local Guardia civil.

Mmm... Post Brexit, they might have a legal right to enforce such rule, though that's anyone's guess, at the moment.
But as things stand, I very much doubt that they can chain a boat registered elsewhere in EU and helmed by a non-Spanish citizen, whose qualification comply with the rules of his/her home Country (i.e. none up to 24m LLL, in case of UK).
Otoh, of course I'd rather not have such debate with local authorities of any sort, if at all possible. :ambivalence:

 

[Hurricane]

Mmm... Post Brexit, they might have a legal right to enforce such rule, though that's anyone's guess, at the moment.
But as things stand, I very much doubt that they can chain a boat registered elsewhere in EU and helmed by a non-Spanish citizen, whose qualification comply with the rules of his/her home Country (i.e. none up to 24m LLL, in case of UK).
Otoh, of course I'd rather not have such debate with local authorities of any sort, if at all possible. :ambivalence:

Yep - there are a lot of misunderstandings in these kinds of cases.
For example, a few years ago, there was a scare that the maximum length for a tender was 2.4m !!!!!
It was a rumour that the Guardia Civil were going to enforce but it never came to anything.
That said, I agree - best not have such debate with local authorities of any sort.

 

[lambohill]

What part of Spain were you boarded?

Close to home...Sant Carles in fact.

 

[lambohill]

Mmm... Post Brexit, they might have a legal right to enforce such rule, though that's anyone's guess, at the moment.
But as things stand, I very much doubt that they can chain a boat registered elsewhere in EU and helmed by a non-Spanish citizen, whose qualification comply with the rules of his/her home Country (i.e. none up to 24m LLL, in case of UK).
Otoh, of course I'd rather not have such debate with local authorities of any sort, if at all possible. :ambivalence:

That was my thinking also.
However I did say exactly that to them to see their view, 'UK flag, no requirement for license at length etc' but obviously did not want a 'debate'. They were very clear on their terms. "It is Spanish water and you must comply with Spanish rules". Obviously simplest to say 'no problem, there you go'.

 

[jrudge]

I used to be in La Rochelle and were boarded relatively regularly.

They gave you a ticket and told you to show it the next time you were boarded and they would not ask for more details. It worked.

They used to board all boats in an anchorage so nothing to do with nationality and were charming. I only recall them looking at passports and ships papers.

Boarded in Bonafacio. Again all boats on the dock. They were interested only in vat status of the boat.

I keep my icc current for the same reasons as others. The man wants a licence. No problem give him one. My kids have Pb level 1 ( eldest will get 2 this year youngest does not qualify to to age ) same reason anyone askes here is their licence.

I also visit Cabrera quite a bit. I can remember the exact wording but it basically says the ships captain will be licenced so for £40 every 5 years it keeps things simple

 

[Newbroom]

Mostly all the posts have been about authorities in the Med. Nothing much about channel ports.

 

[jrudge]

Given there is no requirement for a licence in the UK I cant imagine they ever ask for one.

 

[snowbird30ds]

So what is the deal on older boats with the vat status?
My boat is 1982ish but I have nothing to prove that as it's been through quite a few owners and I have no original paperwork.

 

[jrudge]

https://uk.boats.com/boat-buyers-guide/vat-boats-guide/

Pre 1985 deemed vat paid of in EU 31 December 1992.

VAT inspections are rare. I am one of the few on here who has ever had one. It lasted all of a minute.

Many countries it is not applicable as the boat must be registered ( here is voluntary) and you cant register without proof of VAT.