i want to buy a boat please gimme a few tips!

[cook]

ive finally made the decision that i would like to take a long work break after some personal harships. i have around 90-100k to spend on a boat and was looking at buying a cruiser that i could live aboard .i have looked at a DORAL 360 and also a SEALINE S37 http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MTYyNjk5MDl+U1NVUzAy=-Sealine_S37.html
both are around the 1999 yr and have siimular features but what i wanted to ask you was the following, (1) could i cross the channel on something of this size 37 ft and go through france as well?
(2)could i cruise in the med in a boat of this size? would it be practical to live aboard a boat of this size for 3-4 years?
(3)whats the living costs? per year
i have worked with diesels all my life so i could service it i expect , to be honest ive spoke to some brokers and they just tell they want you want too hear as i will buy outright but i dont want to buy something that will shake the hell out of me and have not got much boating experience.any contacts are most welcome
kindest regards cook

 

[Wiggo]

OK, I'll have ago, as no-one else has waded in yet...

Could you cross the channel? Yes, easily.

Could you go through the French canals? Probably (check the air draft), but bear in mind they're not ideal boats for it - sterndrives will mean awful steering at canal speeds and big diesels running at idle for hours on end won't be happy. Check teh tankage as well, because I understand fuel supplies can be patchy on the canal system.

Could you cruise the med? Yes, definitely. Though you may want to find a boat with aircon and a gennie as well.

Could you live aboard? Yes, but not very comfortably. A boat that size is fine for a couple of weeks, but I doubt you would want to live aboard for 3-4 years.

Living costs are terribly difficult to guess. You're going to need an annual berth, so on the South Coast that's around £5k/year, but not many marinas allow liveaboards. Others will advise on the Med situation. Fuel costs depend on how much you motor around, obviously. Given the available accomodation, I suspect you may spend more time eating out than eating aboard, so you would need to factor that in as well.

 

[lisilou]

Hi

Hi cook

Wow! That's a massive 1st step on the boating ladder.
I am not in a position to give you any advice as I'm a newbie myself but what I can tell you is you will get some terrific advice from the people here which, if heeded, will be invaluable to you.
Anyway, all the best in your new adventure

Lisa

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

ive finally made the decision that i would like to take a long work break after some personal harships. i have around 90-100k to spend on a boat and was looking at buying a cruiser that i could live aboard .i have looked at a DORAL 360 and also a SEALINE S37 http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MTYyNjk5MDl+U1NVUzAy=-Sealine_S37.html
both are around the 1999 yr and have siimular features but what i wanted to ask you was the following, (1) could i cross the channel on something of this size 37 ft and go through france as well?
(2)could i cruise in the med in a boat of this size? would it be practical to live aboard a boat of this size for 3-4 years?
(3)whats the living costs? per year
i have worked with diesels all my life so i could service it i expect , to be honest ive spoke to some brokers and they just tell they want you want too hear as i will buy outright but i dont want to buy something that will shake the hell out of me and have not got much boating experience.any contacts are most welcome
kindest regards cook

Buying a sports cruiser like one of these for liveaboard use is a bit like buying a small sports car for transporting your family. Basically this type of boat, whilst it is capable of taking you on your summer cruise, is really meant for blasting along to the nearest anchorage. Personally, I can't imagine swapping living in a house for living for 3-4 yrs in one of these. You need more space
You have indicated that you want to go to the Med through the French canal/river system so that rules out a flybridge boat because of headroom restrictions. The only type of boat that gives you planing speed with plenty of living space and low headroom is the style of boat made by the likes of Broom and Atlantic which have large aft cabins and the helm above (Broom call this 'command bridge'). Take a look at the Broom 37/36/345 although you might have to increase your budget a little. If you're prepared to go slowly, then there are many steel hulled Dutch cruisers built in the same style
Once you're in the Med, you can live on anything in the summer but the winters can bring rain and cold winds. You will need a 10m berth so you're going to have to budget for anything between £5k and £15k pa and berths are not easily available in many parts of the W Med. Fuel costs will depend on how far you go but you can budget on anything between £2 and £4 per mile depending how slow or fast you go. Insurance will cost about £1000 pa and maintenance costs would depend on how handy you are with a spanner but say, £2000 pa. For the Med, a passarelle for boarding (most moorings are stern to) is handy and a generator is very useful, particularly if you plan a lot of overnight anchoring (saves on mooring fees). I would say that aircon is a must but plenty of people survive without it in the Med

 

[blueglass]

You could keep your mooring costs down by heading the eastern med (greece, Turkey) where costs are much lower. I think you need more accommodation than an S37 to live on for 3 or 4 years without going mad. As you sound OK around diesel engines and maybe other maintenance on a DIY basis you might do better to buy a bigger boat (that means older)
We spend 3 or 4 months a year on an aft cabin 38 footer in the med without aircon and have no problem with that but wouldn't contemplate 3 or 4 years. For independant life away from marinas etc a gennie is pretty essential out here.
To be honest without ANY experience at all you are jumping in at the very deep end - its not like buying a caravan. Still doable and I would never stand in the way of an adventure, but you have a lot of spade work ahead.
Air draught to get you through the French canals is 3.5 meters max, which will preclude most big flybridge boats. If that is your plan, this will narrow down your choices considerably.

 

[JohannaMaria]

Cook
PM sent

 

[powerskipper]

this may be more what you need.

ive finally made the decision that i would like to take a long work break after some personal harships. i have around 90-100k to spend on a boat and was looking at buying a cruiser that i could live aboard .i have looked at a DORAL 360 and also a SEALINE S37 http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MTYyNjk5MDl+U1NVUzAy=-Sealine_S37.html
both are around the 1999 yr and have siimular features but what i wanted to ask you was the following, (1) could i cross the channel on something of this size 37 ft and go through france as well?
(2)could i cruise in the med in a boat of this size? would it be practical to live aboard a boat of this size for 3-4 years?
(3)whats the living costs? per year
i have worked with diesels all my life so i could service it i expect , to be honest ive spoke to some brokers and they just tell they want you want too hear as i will buy outright but i dont want to buy something that will shake the hell out of me and have not got much boating experience.any contacts are most welcome
kindest regards cook

here are 2 boats that mit be better suited to what you want. and a link to a blog about living aboard, this mite help.

http://www.livingonboats.co.uk/articles/72-buying-a-liveaboard-boat-on-a-small-budget


http://www.easternyachts.com/snowgoose/index.htm


http://www.easternyachts.com/nereida/

 

[tinkicker0]

Boats are like cars. You think you are going to buy with your head, then your heart chips in its twopenneth.

Living aboard requirements depends on the person living on onboard and any/ number of companions, and what toys you are prepared to sacrifice.

I personally could live for extended periods under canvas quite happily, however others would not be happy spending a night in anything less than a 5 star hotel.

I just need a shower block and toilet, others expect a sauna and manicurist on call.

I suspect that you have a similar background to me, are sick of stress and deadlines and feel like getting away from it all.

Sportscruisers are the business in looks, but living space is a problem in the sizes you are quoting, you will have a cabin or two, a small cubicle containing a sofa / table / galley/head/ storage cabinets and an aft cockpit in the open air.

Someone quoted a Broom aft cabin. Don't know much about these, but I know an esteemed forumite who lived aboard a Broom Ocean 42 quite happily and year round in the UK.

For me, wanting a fast/ racy looking but reasonably practical boat, I would go for flybridge. Reasonable cabin space, outside area for chilling and entertaining, plus a reasonable sized salon to act as a living room to sup beer and watch DVDs in comfort when its pissing down outside.

Then we get to the Trawler / Dutch barge that others have mentioned.

In my opinion, eminently suited for long periods in the water, loads of room, probably got washing machines on board and god knows what else. Pricey though for a tidy un and expect less than 10 knots or thereabouts top speed, but less dosh per mile.

Don't forget that sending a boat to the med via truck is often far cheaper than it costs to sail there, is more practical if you have a tall boat and also that Europe often requires the skipper to have qualifications such as the International Certificate of Competence and CEVNI.

Not that very much of the above comes from direct experience, only reading other forumites findings and doing pipe dream research.

I wish you well in chasing the dream.

 

[gjgm]

there is a live aboard forum too.. you might want to pop in there are ask(or search) what people think are the criteria for such a boat.

 

[DavidJ]

S37 is a totally super boat with a couple of hundred being made so well proven. We often do 100 mile hops in the Med, sometimes hitting poor (f6-7) weather and it takes it OK so fine for the Channel. The Sealine range tends to be beamier than most others so good for more spacious living. Although most of us here would think it's a bit small for living aboard for a long time, lots of yachties live aboard in much smaller spaces especially in the Med.
S37's with KAD43's are much simplier to maintain than with KAD44's, 300's etc and don't have electronic controls and 2x 230hp will push you at 32knots with good crusiing at 22-24 knots. They were also fitted with Mercruiser engines which I believe are sound but less popular so expect to pay less (and receive less when you sell)
Your berthing costs will be lower than with a bigger boat of course, I pay about £4000 pa on the Costa Brava.
Hope this all helps a bit.

 

[Tranona]

Just my 2p worth. Majority of liveaboards are sailboats for all sorts of reasons, but mainly I think flexibility and amount of usable space for your money. Planing Power boats are as others say, mainly for living in marinas and dashing from one to another, although larger ones have space for long term living. However they are dominated by huge engines that are rarely used.

Displacement motor boats are popular, particularly in inland waterways and range from unashamed houseboats that move to elegant motorboats that have some accommodation. The Parker design in one of the posts above is an excellent example - however, you can get similar living space in a sail boat 10ft shorter and half the price.

There is also the issue of size of crew. Most liveaboards tend to be couples and with modern equipment two people can handle quite large boats, but single handing is limiting, not so much when underway but handling in marinas and harbours.

Finally, don't get carried away too much by the thought of low costs. Yes, it can be cheap if you have a cheap boat and keep away from organised places. But once you start using marinas and having paid maintenance costs shoot up. Living costs are now much the same across Europe, although the more remote parts of the eastern Med are still cheaper on balance than UK.

Lots written on the subject and worth going on the Liveaboard forum as a number of members have good blogs that tell it how it is.

 

[coliholic]

As others have said, your suggested choice of boat, may not be quite everyone's cup of tea but here's my twopennorth.

First off are you looking to liveaboard with the occasional trip somewhere else, or do you plan to continually be on the move with just the odd night moored up somewhere? And do you have an ultimate objective in mind? Either way if you're going to be in the med during the summer, I'd say aircon is essential, in which case you need a generator to run the aircon. All this adds weight and factor in all your personal stuff too and I reckon both the boats you've mentioned are going to prove too small.

So do you spend more on a bigger boat of the same age, or the same amount of money on an older boat? And then you really, really need to ask yourself why you want a fast planing boat.

Living on board isn't like a quick blat around in a speedboat. If you're going for a high speed journey somewhere, everythings got to be put away or bolted down. For instance the bike that you normally leave just leaning against the rail has got to be secured properly or come the first big wave, you can wave it goodbye.

So maybe a bigger slower boat would fit your needs better?

How about an ex hire boat? Seems to be some good boats for sale here at very attractive prices, IMHO.
http://www.leboat.co.uk/flotte/boats_for_sale

And most of these are already in France.

And finally Grehan, poster from this parish, has a prettyy good blog/website that's worth a read.

http://www.tagweb.co.uk/grehan

It'll answer a lot of questions you didn't even know you needed to ask.

 

[cook]

when you say annual birth is around £5000 per year do you mean getting cloths washed and mooring fees?
thanls again !

 

[cook]

i just had a look at some brooms they seem to be a lot more expensive ?? i notice the living quarter look a bot more practical as well. i will look into the pro's and cons of these boats but really i can only afford 100k as im putting 30k aside for costs.thanks for your advice

 

[blueglass]

just a note on aircon ( iam in the med without and quite happy) My 6kw gennie averages about £1.00 and hour in diesel (all white of course in Europe) under load. So even with the aircon on only say 12 hours a day that makes £4,380 a year. Bit steep for somebody on a budget. Not to mention the servicing costs on the genny alone. At 200 hour service intervals thats about 11 services costing another £2 -3K if done professionally. IMHO aircon only worth considering if you intend long term shorepower hook up.
However, without aircon and only using gennie for normal battery charging, hot water etc I reckon I could liveaboard in Greece incredibly cheaply totally without mooring fees - there's plenty of free harbours and anchorages around here - but usually no electricity.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

when you say annual birth is around £5000 per year do you mean getting cloths washed and mooring fees?
thanls again !

In some posh marinas in the W Med, you could easily pay 200-300 Euros a night so, yes, that'll give you birthing pains!

 

[cook]

ive finally made the decision that i would like to take a long work break after some personal harships. i have around 90-100k to spend on a boat and was looking at buying a cruiser that i could live aboard .i have looked at a DORAL 360 and also a SEALINE S37 http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/MTYyNjk5MDl+U1NVUzAy=-Sealine_S37.html
both are around the 1999 yr and have siimular features but what i wanted to ask you was the following, (1) could i cross the channel on something of this size 37 ft and go through france as well?
(2)could i cruise in the med in a boat of this size? would it be practical to live aboard a boat of this size for 3-4 years?
(3)whats the living costs? per year
i have worked with diesels all my life so i could service it i expect , to be honest ive spoke to some brokers and they just tell they want you want too hear as i will buy outright but i dont want to buy something that will shake the hell out of me and have not got much boating experience.any contacts are most welcome
kindest regards cook

OK, I'll have ago, as no-one else has waded in yet...

Could you cross the channel? Yes, easily.

Could you go through the French canals? Probably (check the air draft), but bear in mind they're not ideal boats for it - sterndrives will mean awful steering at canal speeds and big diesels running at idle for hours on end won't be happy. Check teh tankage as well, because I understand fuel supplies can be patchy on the canal system.

Could you cruise the med? Yes, definitely. Though you may want to find a boat with aircon and a gennie as well.

Could you live aboard? Yes, but not very comfortably. A boat that size is fine for a couple of weeks, but I doubt you would want to live aboard for 3-4 years.

Living costs are terribly difficult to guess. You're going to need an annual berth, so on the South Coast that's around £5k/year, but not many marinas allow liveaboards. Others will advise on the Med situation. Fuel costs depend on how much you motor around, obviously. Given the available accomodation, I suspect you may spend more time eating out than eating aboard, so you would need to factor that in as well.

Boats are like cars. You think you are going to buy with your head, then your heart chips in its twopenneth.

Living aboard requirements depends on the person living on onboard and any/ number of companions, and what toys you are prepared to sacrifice.

I personally could live for extended periods under canvas quite happily, however others would not be happy spending a night in anything less than a 5 star hotel.

I just need a shower block and toilet, others expect a sauna and manicurist on call.

I suspect that you have a similar background to me, are sick of stress and deadlines and feel like getting away from it all.

Sportscruisers are the business in looks, but living space is a problem in the sizes you are quoting, you will have a cabin or two, a small cubicle containing a sofa / table / galley/head/ storage cabinets and an aft cockpit in the open air.

Someone quoted a Broom aft cabin. Don't know much about these, but I know an esteemed forumite who lived aboard a Broom Ocean 42 quite happily and year round in the UK.

For me, wanting a fast/ racy looking but reasonably practical boat, I would go for flybridge. Reasonable cabin space, outside area for chilling and entertaining, plus a reasonable sized salon to act as a living room to sup beer and watch DVDs in comfort when its pissing down outside.

Then we get to the Trawler / Dutch barge that others have mentioned.

In my opinion, eminently suited for long periods in the water, loads of room, probably got washing machines on board and god knows what else. Pricey though for a tidy un and expect less than 10 knots or thereabouts top speed, but less dosh per mile.

Don't forget that sending a boat to the med via truck is often far cheaper than it costs to sail there, is more practical if you have a tall boat and also that Europe often requires the skipper to have qualifications such as the International Certificate of Competence and CEVNI.

Not that very much of the above comes from direct experience, only reading other forumites findings and doing pipe dream research.

I wish you well in chasing the dream.

well it is a bit of a dream but neverless the house is on the market whats the deal with the broom models there really old and pricey also the seem quite tall as well

 

[cook]

what do you mean annual birth could cost are what!!!?
is this just for parking it as ive got some prices in marinas in the uk and they are about 400 to 1000 per year.and by birthing costs do you mean living costs ie fuel food and launderette?i visited a marina/lock the other day and he said the first 3 days are free and £2 a night there after which work out £8 a week =400 a year if im roaming around.are prices more expensive to mooring in the med than the uk?im cofused as to birthing costs wth ! 5 thousand pounds!!
when i started to look into this the idea was that i dont pay this government or any other another penny a bit like a gypsie and i was happy to be a gypsie (kinda) but im not if im paying anything to this system.

 

[coliholic]

Oh dear I think there's some very basic info that you're missing Cook.

First off berthing costs are mooring charges for keeping your boat in someone else's marina. Marinas, in general, aren't owned by the government they're privately owned facilities and unfortunately you have to pay to keep your boat there. On the inland waterways, say the |Great Ouse in Cambridgeshire, you'll pay around £1,000 a year to the marina owner to keep a 30 foot your boat on their "land". On the Thames you'll pay about double that and on the South Coast, say the Solent, double that, so budget on £4,000 a year. And the med will cost you about the same too - around £4,000 for a 30 foot boat. And the bigger the boat, the more it costs. Then you have to pay for electricity if you're using the marina's supply and some charge for water and waste disposal too. Cheap, it ain't.

And this marina/lock chappie you spoke to. Where is it? I'd guess the guy was telling you the first 3 nights are free, then you pay for every other night, not the first three nights every week are free, so that'd make it £3 a day for 362 days a year = £1,086 a year

 

[Wiggo]

Quite.

For our F37 (so the same length as the S37), we pay £5500/year to park in Ocean Village in Southampton. If we went to Berthon in Lymington or Salterns in Poole, I guess we'd be paying £7000/year. That doesn't include electricity; over winter, with heaters and a dehumidifier set to low, we pay about £30/month for leccy, so as a liveaboard running heating and an immersion heater, I'd expect maybe £500/year in electricity.

If we visit another marina on the south coast, then we'd expect to pay maybe £30-40 a night.

You only have a small fridge, so a lot of food will have to be bought in small, uneconomical size packs, or it will go to waste.

There's a launderette on site, but that's coin operated so you have to pay up or stink, as there's realistically no room to wash and dry clothes on board.

Insurance costs me around £1000/year, and engine servicing and general repairs would cost around £2000-2500/year. An annual lift out and antifoul on a boat that size is going to cost you £500 if you do the work yourself, more if you pay someone to do it.

Cruising, the boat does around 1.2mpg, so that's about £3/mile. How far were you planning on going?