I have just been Alan Mackie'd

[sarabande]

agreed with those ??? comments. Dylan, what are you doing or what have you done to give away (or allow to be taken) the means by which you could earn a bit more money out of KTL. ?

Does your own, personal, view on image copyright lead you to give away those rights, or have you been screwed by Google ?

I do not understand the position you are in IRO losing KTL copyright.


EDIT
Partial explanation above, but I am still mystified by your roll-over approach, when other professional seem to be able to make money out of hard work writing and filming. Perhaps the time has come to ditch KTL, establish a new social media identity, and really sort out a legal way of earning more bucks, one with which you are personally at ease.

The hole you are in is not entirely of your own making.

 

[dylanwinter]

agreed with those ??? comments. Dylan, what are you doing or what have you done to give away (or allow to be taken) the means by which you could earn a bit more money out of KTL. ?

Does your own, personal, view on image copyright lead you to give away those rights, or have you been screwed by Google ?

I do not understand the position you are in IRO losing KTL copyright.


EDIT
Partial explanation above, but I am still mystified by your roll-over approach, when other professional seem to be able to make money out of hard work writing and filming. Perhaps the time has come to ditch KTL, establish a new social media identity, and really sort out a legal way of earning more bucks, one with which you are personally at ease.

The hole you are in is not entirely of your own making.

You tube rules the universe

it is a brilliant platform - it really deliivers the bandwidth. High hitting films will be stored on google servers all over the planet. If you put a film on vimeo it will sit on one server - maybe in san francisco. If you click on the film it will have to snake its way across a continent and across an ocen - if you click at a busy time then it will take ages to arrive.

Click on that same film on youtube and it will be on a server in London and manchester and seven places in the USA and in australia too. Google also owns some very fat pipes. Their technology is blooming brilliant.

The other thing that google does brilliantly is to offer you stuff you did not know you wanted. because it knows so much about who you are and what you like - what you buy on the web, even what is in your emails (I assume) - the so called big data. This they combine to offer you those tempting titbits you get down the right hand side of the google page.

One bloke I met in scotland - a Centaur sailor - says that he only watches my films via vimeo downloads - where they look the best they can ever be.

However, when I asked him how he found me he said that google had offered him this film

click on that and it will open in a new window - now look at the films it offers you on the right hand side - they will taylored for you and your proclivities

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmA-WFTPjqU

this has had 54,000 hits over the two years it has been up. - that would be worth $54 in advertising revenue - provided it had no music in it. The vimeo downlaoding Centaur owner who found me from youtube has now watched all my films and that one bloke has probably tapped me the $50 over the years

So you can make films but unless they are on youtube it is like running a shop up a dark alley with the blinds down and the door locked.


as for people making money from youtube

at $1 per thousand even LaVagabonde would only earn $250 per film

far better for them - as they do - to just accept that it belongs to google once it is on the web and find another revenue stream


Lavagabonde and most of the other bikini clad wenches who wwind winches in hot places do not make money from youtube but from the patreon accounts - in other words they have created a revenue stream outside of the control of google. For the Lavagabonde people that is currently running at $7,000 per film - and they put a film up each week. They have now been offered the free use of a 40 foot cat for a year. Goodonem I say.

there are one or two highly publicised people (publicised by google) who earn money from google - the odd beauty blogger etc - but even they earn more money from sponsors or appearing at events. The last event I appeared at was the boat show in kip. PBO does not pay for speakers but they did offer me a jacket provided I write a review on it and Kip have offered me a berth for the wintter at £25 a week.

Films of an ugly bloke sailing a series of crap boats up muddy British rivers is a very niche market.

One bloke says he likes my films because my boat is nearly always the crappiest in the anchorage and he is too embarrassed to watch the winches and wenches on his big telly in case his wife catches him at it. My films are tit free.

I get lots of emails from blokes saying that they like my films, have watched scores of them but would rather spend money on their own boats than give me money to keep on making the films I completely understand.

I always send nice emails back saying thanks for watching the films and I would love to see some snaps of their boats

you wuld be surprised at how many really are cruddy little boats like mine - although some of them are real gin palaces.

the good thing about using youtube is that every hit on the films - even from people who will never pay - encourages google to offer the films to more people - and about one in 20 coughs up some cash. So the more non tappers I get the more tappers I get.

the good thing is though that it it has not cost me anything to get those copies of the films onto those 19 non paying desktops

things are getting better now that people are able to watch the films on their big tellies

some are watching with their wives (no tits in my films) and they see them up against net flix for which they pay through the nose - so the odd dollar paypalled to the witty fat bloke in the shit boat who tells them stuff they did not know sometimes happens

It has been a fascinating decade doing this - the journalistic journey has been much rougher than the sailing journey

I went from earning £800 a month via youtube back in 2009 to zip all overnight when they killed my adsense account

then I had subscriptions for downloads, then I sold DVDs (those have now died) and now I depend upon what one chap earlier described in this thread as rattling the tin - nice wake shot as an avatar by the way.

No idea why the mobo boys ever watch my films - the films are not for them, they don't pay and they make big wakes. Sadly almost no-one makes decent mobo films - or not amny people write books about mobos either. Discuss.

Rattling the tin is a humiliating way of keeping sailing but it has allowed me to supercharge my sailing. Without the 2,000 odd blokes who tap in occasionally I would be just schlepping up and down the blackwater in essex drinking coffee and getting on first name terms with the local birds while waiting to drop into an early grave.

above all I am really enjoying my sailing - although weds when the wheel fell off the trailer and I got home to find a demand for £450 from a scottish snapper was not a good day.

It is an amazing feeling when one of the forumites who has always regarded me as a sponging parasite actually starts watching the films, gets a bit hooked and then sends me $5

D

I am enjoying scotland - but it is good to be back in the lowlands for a while though

 

[Bru]

before putting anything on youtube you have to agree their terms and conditions

last time I looked it was a 20,000 word document

Got a link to that because I can't find anything other than ...

https://www.youtube.com/static?gl=GB&template=terms
(The Youtube Terms & Conditions) which is nowhere near 20,000 words (3,508 to be precise)

The key terms are ...

7.2 You retain all of your ownership rights in your Content, but you are required to grant limited licence rights to YouTube and other users of the Service. These are described in paragraph 8 of these Terms (Rights you licence).

and

8.2 The above licenses granted by you in Content terminate when you remove or delete your Content from the Website. The above licenses granted by you in textual comments you submit as Content are perpetual and irrevocable, but are otherwise without prejudice to your ownerships rights, which are retained by you as set out in paragraph 7.2 above.

So in no way do Google own your or any other submitters content. By uploading content to Youtube you grant them a limited licence (which they need in order to run the service) but that licence terminates when you remove the content or close your Youtube account

If it has music in it then they grab the rights to the whole shebang on behalf of the music owner (usually time Warner/Sony et al

you can appeal and claim it is your music or that you have rights to use it but you will have to fight with a google computer for your $12 worth of adsense revenue

dunno how many emails you are prepared to send to win $12 back

it is the way it works

I can't resist the temptation to say that it is indeed the way it works if you won't play by the rules!

Yes, if you use other people's IP without permission they'll get the Adsense revenue (and rightly so). There's plenty of guidance on how to avoid this on Youtube itself (both Youtube and user generated). And yes, if you use protected IP (especially music) even with permission it's a minefield. It's best avoided

(Since 2014) Content uploaders can check before the video goes live that they're not going to fall foul of the content ID system and there are built in mechanisms for removing Ip protected content from videos or swapping it for royalty free content. Youtube even provides an audio library of more than 150,000 royalty free tracks for use in videos that will not trigger the content ID mechanism.

I know you have a (searches for appropriate phrase ...) cavalier (? not perfect, it'll have to do) attitude to IP but others, and especially the big content owners, don't.

You're right though that very few people are going to get rich monetising Youtube videos but a great many people manage to make some money at least without falling foul of the system

 

[dylanwinter]

Got a link to that because I can't find anything other than ...

https://www.youtube.com/static?gl=GB&template=terms
(The Youtube Terms & Conditions) which is nowhere near 20,000 words (3,508 to be precise)

The key terms are ...

7.2 You retain all of your ownership rights in your Content, but you are required to grant limited licence rights to YouTube and other users of the Service. These are described in paragraph 8 of these Terms (Rights you licence).

and

8.2 The above licenses granted by you in Content terminate when you remove or delete your Content from the Website. The above licenses granted by you in textual comments you submit as Content are perpetual and irrevocable, but are otherwise without prejudice to your ownerships rights, which are retained by you as set out in paragraph 7.2 above.

So in no way do Google own your or any other submitters content. By uploading content to Youtube you grant them a limited licence (which they need in order to run the service) but that licence terminates when you remove the content or close your Youtube account



I can't resist the temptation to say that it is indeed the way it works if you won't play by the rules!

Yes, if you use other people's IP without permission they'll get the Adsense revenue (and rightly so). There's plenty of guidance on how to avoid this on Youtube itself (both Youtube and user generated). And yes, if you use protected IP (especially music) even with permission it's a minefield. It's best avoided

(Since 2014) Content uploaders can check before the video goes live that they're not going to fall foul of the content ID system and there are built in mechanisms for removing Ip protected content from videos or swapping it for royalty free content. Youtube even provides an audio library of more than 150,000 royalty free tracks for use in videos that will not trigger the content ID mechanism.

I know you have a (searches for appropriate phrase ...) cavalier (? not perfect, it'll have to do) attitude to IP but others, and especially the big content owners, don't.

You're right though that very few people are going to get rich monetising Youtube videos but a great many people manage to make some money at least without falling foul of the system

The youtube agreement I clicked on was 20,000 words with 100,000 of subsections

when I got thrown out back in 2011 or so one of the KTLers was married to a lawyer. She offered to read the document and said it was the most amazing thuing she had ever read

and told me not to bother fighting them

she said I all but agreed to them coming into my house and taking away my babies

the checks then were coming from Switzerland - when the killed the adsense account for the wrong algohythmn they took access to the stats away - and there is no redemption in the land of google

I think you have to examine the evidence of the way the system works rather than the way google says it works

all that aside - they pay pin money for films

$1000 for a million hits

All they give me is the right to remove the films from the only platform in the world that works

the platform that dominates all others

it is as close to a video monopoly as you could ever wish to find

you play by google rules or do not play at all

as for using other peoples music - in the early days I did use music I had permission to use. Google seized the adsense revenue from the films until I could prove that I had permission to use the music

that required many, many emails and signed documents from the publishers of the music and weeks of delays - just for $50

it really is a wonderful system

you can fight it

or you can try to find a way around it


I fear I will never get you on the side of the bloke who makes goodish films

but that is alright - I only need the one in 20 who likes the films enough to chip in

D

 

[Bru]

The youtube agreement I clicked on was 20,000 words with 100,000 of subsections

0.2 words per subsection? (sorry, couldn't resist it)

Well whatever the agreement was in 2011, it's now the one I posted a link to and it definitely doesn't give Google the right to come into your house and take your babies!

I fear I will never get you on my side

It's not a question of sides. I love your videos. Granted you don't get any dosh from me 'cos I can't spare any but if I could I would

I just see you persistently bucking the system and being controversial for effect which is all good fun and all that but it keeps on costing you money. EG. There you were making good money from monetising the KTL Youtube channel but you broke the rules, in order to generate more ad clicks, and lost out.

Same applies to your attitude to other people's IP. You may not care about your IP but you ignore the fact that other content owners do care about theirs at your peril (granted this Mackie chap is playing the game from the other end but that doesn't make using other people's IP without permission acceptable or sensible)

In fact, I AM on your side really. I'm trying, probably in vain, to save you from yourself

Note: For the record I replied to the quoted post before it was edited

 

[doug748]

I just did a GIS for "Portavadie marina aerial". .

What is a GIS? Can I do one? How would I do that?

Interweb is an slowly unfolding mystery to me.

 

[awol]

What is a GIS? Can I do one? How would I do that?
Interweb is an slowly unfolding mystery to me.

"A geographic information system (GIS) is a computer system for capturing, storing, checking, and displaying data related to positions on Earth's surface. GIS can show many different kinds of data on one map. This enables people to more easily see, analyze, and understand patterns and relationships."

Usually costs money unless anyone knows of a freebie site.

 

[sarabande]

"A geographic information system (GIS) is a computer system for capturing, storing, checking, and displaying data related to positions on Earth's surface. GIS can show many different kinds of data on one map. This enables people to more easily see, analyze, and understand patterns and relationships."

Usually costs money unless anyone knows of a freebie site.

Start with Google Earth Pro. It's free and does wonderful things. I've just set up over a 100 forestry compartments (management areas) on a big estate, and it's only when the land owner wanted to start exporting data to a spreadsheet for more detailed control over tree ages, yields ratios, treatments, etc, that I moved everything to QGIS, which coincidentally is also free.


QGIS is Open Source, and I have no hesitation in saying that it is the equivalent of ESRI products costing £3000 a station, and with much nicer people helping on the forum

https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html

 

[doug748]

"A geographic information system (GIS) is a computer system for capturing, storing, checking, and displaying data related to positions on Earth's surface. GIS can show many different kinds of data on one map. This enables people to more easily see, analyze, and understand patterns and relationships."

Usually costs money unless anyone knows of a freebie site.

I think it was suggested that the GIS could give information about the provenance/copyright of the photo?

So (and this is the point for me as an innocent abroad) what I usually do is look for a suitable snap on the net and post it up. Sometimes I say "Picture courtesy of Daily Mirror" or whatever. Sometimes I don't or forget.

If I can't get GISsed up, I assume that some bloke could chase me to top up his social payments? It's a serious point, photos are passed around in all sorts of internet spots.

 

[dylanwinter]

It's not a question of sides. I love your videos. Granted you don't get any dosh from me 'cos I can't spare any but if I could I would
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...been-Alan-Mackie-d/page15#C4kVmZfQB5FhOZYi.99

Classic post there Bru

I love the way the no tappers get passionate and oftentimes rather angry about what I am doing wrong

I am sure it makes you feel better to believe that I am playing the game wrong and if only I obeyed the rules then I would be earning lots of money from google

of course I only sail cruddy boats and drive cruddy cars for the effect

I am only sailing around Britain slowly for the effect

I only linked to a google supplied image in the hope that there would be a row about it and that I weould get a registered letter demanding £450

as for intelectual property rights

the chinese and the indians have killed it and google has effectively killed it on its platforms acrioss the rest of the world

it was google that offered me the original image of Partavadie without the inconvenience of going to the website where it was being hosted.

The bloke comes gunning for me - not google

now why would he do that?

as far as intellectual property on the web is concerned it is all but dead unless you have the legal firepower to exploit it

it really is

look around you

see how many free films and old TV shows there are on youtube

do you want to watch the high chapparal

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+high+chapparal

the owners of those films have thrown in the towell

I do not stand a chance against the might of google

google provides a marvelous platform for showing films but makes sure that as little goes back to the content creators they can get away with

I fear that the right to take a film down and stop google from exploiting it on the only platform that works is not much in the way of control


you can take it off youtube and it effectively dissapears

sorry about you misreading the sentence about 100,000 words of extra google rules

try imagining your business if people could digitally reproduce your lovely two day boat wiring job at the click of a mouse via google - and google got $10 for every thousand times people copied your wiring and decided if they would like to give you $1

and then left you to rattle the collecting tin at the sailors who were using it.

I am not complaining - I am merely attempting to explain the way it is

making these films away from the control of the BBC and writing words away from the control of IPC or tomsons is a tremendous liberation

we now see sailing narratives on youtube that are brilliant to watch

I have been a hack for fourty years - millions and millions of words, hours and hours of video, thousands of stills

it all belongs to other people.

When you sign a contract with the BBC you hand over your words and images using a lovely phrase

they own it "in perpetuity and in the known, and as yet unknown universe" - consider that for a moment

the old radio series and TV shows I did in the past are generally laying in the BBC archive somewhere - not worth digitising

- a few of the ones I managed to copy before I left are on my server available for free download via my website

if the bbc came and told me to take them down I would do it in a trice

But the BBC cannot be bothered to chase them down and tell me to remove them

just not worth it

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/a-hack-in-the-borders-episodes-1-and-4/

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/sailing-around-britain/a-hack-goes-west-oregon-trail-on-horseback/

D

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Shame that dylon sometimes takes such a bashing from so called community forum contributors.

To the electrician bloke who watches his films but cannot afford
A pound now and then I will add one on your behalf.

 

[steveeasy]

HI,
I just searched portavadie images and the ones that came up had absolutely no link to the business mentioned. now I don't take sides, but I could have used any number of images. surely unless Dylan specifically downloaded them from the site or used images marked or identified notifying people of the copyright how would they now ?.

Perhaps it could be assumed Dylan should have known, but it is not about assumptions is it. its about fact. I know not to take images from photographers websites if they are watermarked or if the site notifies visitors of copyright, but he says he took the images from google. is it not for the business to prove otherwise ?.

Steveeasy

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Interesting post: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?466686-I-have-just-been-Alan-Mackie-d&p=5865876#post5865876

Myes, but that probably includes offering to pay a reasonable fee when caught bang to rights.



I just did a GIS for "Portavadie marina aerial". Three of the first line row of hits are on http://www.197aerial.co.uk/portavadie.htm, which quite clearly states that

content redacted

That "HERE" link goes to a general page of information which in turn links to http://www.197aerial.co.uk/197_price_guide_and_terms_May_14th_2016.pdf which says that the price per picture for website use for one year (minimum term) starts at £450, regardless of whether the usage was commercial or non-commercial.

Mr Mackie is not, it seems, asking for huge damages. He is simply asking to be paid usage fee which is clearly stated on his website. It may be high, but that's his choice. The easy way to avoid paying it is not to use his material.

I used to spend quite a lot of my time writing material for a university website. I always choose pictures which GIS showed as "labelled for non-commercial reuse" and even so my colleagues in the rights department verified the conditions for every image I chose. With all due respect to Dylan, anyone trying to make money from a blog really ought to check these things.

Some years ago a prominent German gliding photographer found out that an amateur-run virtual competition was using a small version of one of his photographs on its website banner. He sued a German student, who had nothing whatsoever to do with the website but was the only member of the organising group living in Germany, for, if I recall correctly, €10,000 plus legal costs. May have been €20,000. I don't know how it turned out, as everything went oddly silent, but it does put a request for £450 into context.

The redacted content is a notice saying that that content is copyright Mr. Nasty McNasty.
Although I cant see that particular copyright notice carrying much weight. Phrases, maybe copyright material, text??? I think not, but the notice stands. As such Mr JumbleDuck and Time Warner are now in for it big style.

 

[dylanwinter]

Shame that dylon sometimes takes such a bashing from so called community forum contributors.

To the electrician bloke who watches his films but cannot afford
A pound now and then I will add one on your behalf.

damn there are nice people out there

doodonyadude

I have mentioned this before but I recentkly got a tap for $11

I sent the bloke the usual hand crafted email saying what a great all roound bloke he is

but asked why $11

he said that he gave me one dollar but thought that was not enough and he did not know how to ungive me a dollar so he then added the ten

"besides", he wrote, "I only did it because my wife made me"

the next email fro me asked him what he meant.

He said he was watching one of the Orkney films on his big telly. His wife started watching when the sequnce about wild flowers and why they are thhere came up and at the end she asked him if the film was from the BBC

"no - some sailor in England makes them"

"why does he make them?"

"because other sailors give him money through paypal"

"do you give him money?"

"no"

and then he said in the email

"she gave me one of those looks - so that night I gave you money so that she would not give me another one of those looks when I watch the rest of the films

Not heard from him since - but that is okay

this is one amazing world

D

 

[Just_sayin']

Hey Dylan, you haven't mentioned that people can help fund your choice of life style for over an hour, rattle, rattle.

Hope the sale of your £600,000 Grade II listed 18th century thatched cottage has gone through smoothly.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-33764172.html

Or is it a coincidence this looks like your place?

 

[Poecheng]

Hey Dylan, you haven't mentioned that people can help fund your choice of life style for over an hour, rattle, rattle.

Hope the sale of your £600,000 Grade II listed 18th century thatched cottage has gone through smoothly.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-33764172.html

Or is it a coincidence this looks like your place?

Unfair.
Unfair invasion of privacy (think of Mrs D at least)
Unfair because he didn't buy it with KTL. Owning an asset doesn't pay bills.
I dare say you expect people to fund your choice of lifestyle as well - you probably provide goods or services like the next person. God forbid you should live in a house as well - why don't you sell that and give your work away for free.

 

[Bru]

What Poacheng said

Uncalled for and out of order

 

[Bru]

PS For the record I've got no issue at all with KTL making money. Good wheeze, and I've a fair inkling of the amount of work it takes. I'm not a sycophant and of I think Dylan is wrong I'll tell him so. If nothing else, his ripostes and put downs are the work of a master craftsman and something to behold!

 

[JumbleDuck]

What is a GIS? Can I do one? How would I do that?

Interweb is an slowly unfolding mystery to me.

Google Image Search.

it was google that offered me the original image of Partavadie without the inconvenience of going to the website where it was being hosted.

One single click would have taken you to the website where it's hosted. Three clicks ("Search tools" -> "Image rights" -> "Labeled (sic) for reuse") would have allowed you to find images whose copyright holders would have been happy for you to use them. As a professional blogger - one seeking to make money from it - you really don't have any excuse for not taking a bit more care. Sorry. Hope it costs you less than £450. Offer him half?

 

[dylanwinter]

Hey Dylan, you haven't mentioned that people can help fund your choice of life style for over an hour, rattle, rattle.

Hope the sale of your £600,000 Grade II listed 18th century thatched cottage has gone through smoothly.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-33764172.html

Or is it a coincidence this looks like your place?

thanks for the defence lads that followed this post

house money is what they call wooden money

you cannot do anything with it other than put it back into a place to live

pass it onto the kids when I die and they will just put the same wooden money back into the land of bonkers

live in the south east -die in the south east - that is the way it goes

but living as I do.....and doing what I do....I am asking for it

D

PS P - can I put the registered letter demanding £450 on the web yet? I have still yet to find any evidence of court procedings following on from Mr Mackie's demands