how will she handle?

[davec]

I am considering the purchase of a Marieholm 32 but there is one slight worry : the prop is aft of the rudder.
What effect would this configuration have on the handling?

 

[BAtoo]

Not sailed one of these but had a Albin Vega with the same configuration. Handling astern was "interesting" - with no prop wash over the rudder you need speed to make the rudder steer the boat and in the meantime your direction is variable!!!

There are Vega owners here who may have mastered the art and may comment.

 

[stav]

Never had a marieholm but I guess she is long keeled and I have had a hillyard and currently a Nicholson 36 both long keel and the benefits for family or shorthanded sailing far outwiegh the disadvantage of being difficult in a marina. After all you will spend 2 hours or 2 days at sea and 15 minutes mooring up. When I come in to port by myself I always accept an offer of help and when leaving often use a spring to get her out or might warp her aaroound before I need to leave all things that make you feel good when they go right! Additionally really study the berthing plan in the alamanc carefully. Where are you going to keep her: in a marina? in which case will they give you a berth that will suit the way she handles or on a swinging mooring then no problems.

Good luck with it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[davec]

It's interesting what you say about going astern; with the prop behind the rudder, there should be lots of water flowing over the rudder. Shouldn't this improve handling astern?

 

[Tranona]

Not necessarily. You need speed to get water flow over the rudder for it to be effective. With a long keel reaction will be slow anyway. The advantage of a prop in front of the rudder is that you can use the propwash over the rudder to effectively move the boat sideways. Unfortunately this tends to work only one way. In my case the stern swings to port in reverse, so I almost always reverse out of my berth and continue in reverse down the run. Getting her to turn the other way in reverse even with way on is challenging!

Tha advantage of a prop behind and above the rudder is that the rudder is arguably more efficient because it does not have a cut out. Motoring should be better as the prop is in clear water and parallel to the waterline, but it is nearer the surface so might come out of the water, rather like an outboard prop in rough seas.

 

[webcraft]

[ QUOTE ]
I am considering the purchase of a Marieholm 32 but there is one slight worry : the prop is aft of the rudder.
What effect would this configuration have on the handling?


[/ QUOTE ] She will probably handle like a pig on roller skates. After owning a Vega for six years we still get into the odd scrape in very confined spaces - but as we spend a lot more time sailing forwards than we do motoring backwards that played a very much larger part in our choice of boat.

The secret is to plan on using the propwalk, have fenders handy and whatever happens look as though you meant it! We often turn the boat round with warps when an astern exit looks problematical.

- W

 

[EagerV]

Dont let it put you off. Have being handling a Vega in a tight marina berth for the last 6 years without too many problems. A fisherman friend gave me some good advise that I have tried to heed. "Always use the wind to your advantage."
Try and get a berth that is facing the prevailing wind, its then just a matter of pushing or pulling in the bow as you leave the berth, depending on which way you want to go. A yachts bow, even a long keeler, will always blow off when stationary or at slow speeds. Even on days when the wind is up your stern it is often easier to go out astern and turn when you have plenty of room and a few knots built up.

 

[MasterofHera]

I cheat when going astern. I use an auxilary outboard as back up. Problem sorted.

 

[webcraft]

[ QUOTE ]
I cheat when going astern. I use an auxilary outboard as back up. Problem sorted.


[/ QUOTE ] A stern thruster - what a good idea, if perhaps a hassle to rig up initially. Could you post a pic?

- W

 

[Blueboatman]

Well if the aft propellor was a totally unworkable idea, it is unlikely that the manufacturer would have done it that way...
I find modern wide boats with plenty of freeboard quite difficult at times too.

I also 'cut my teeth' on wooden boats with quarter props and questionable engine power. The erick is to just practise and do things as slowly as tide and wind will allow, then as you get confident, use the peculiarities.. Sometimes it is just easier to back out of or approach a tight nasty berth by getting a rope ashore and manhandling the boat in or out with a looped rope.

 

[doug748]

I must first own up to the fact that I have no idea, though I have to agree with Webcraft's opinion of the arrangement. I would not be put off however, I used to have a Mariehom IF Boat and their build quality is excellent. My IF boat was outboard powered and reverse was not a option, but you learn to cope. The prop is mounted above the rudder on the 32 (Mk 1 I think not on the later boats) so will have little effect on it apart from pushing and pulling and prop walk. The only other production boat to have this arrangement (AFAIK) is the Albin Vega, as has already been said. No doubt there may be further advice from this direction. I agree with EagerV, giving the bow a big shove in the right direction will help. The worst situation is leaving a Marina berth with the wind forward of the bow, say 30deg, and having to put the bow through the wind to make your escape. In all cases consider carefully if she will make it, and then decide she won't, and rig a slip line from the stern.
I would have considered a M32 before I bought my boat but there are so few around. I suspect I may know the one you are considering if it is local to me?
I feel these boats have an awful lot going for them. Good luck.
PS I may be able to find a boat test of the period if you are interested.

 

[Slow_boat]

My previous boat was just unsteerable astern but not really a problem. I didn't go backwards! I've warped her round and winched her backwards by ropes many times. It just becomes normal. Also giving her a shove in the right direction when casting off and using the wind became normal.

 

[exfinnsailor]

If its anything like our Beneteau 323 with twin rudders and no prop wash it will be fun .. We have prop walk but always the wrong side .. She has a mind of her own when going backwards in a marina .. BUT we enjoy the forward bit with the sails up so ... We live with it .. After all the marina bit at the end of a great days sailing only lasts about 10 minutes .. then a glass of wine on deck .. and all's well with the world .. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[boatmike]

Lots of opinions on here but most concentrating on berthing. Frankly the wash over the rudder makes little difference at low speed. It does help a bit when going forward slowly which is an effect you will lose but as one post suggests, it would actually create a wash over the rudder in reverse which might even help with the aft prop arrangement. Boats have been designed with offset props, aft of rudder props and twin rudders and they are still all more susceptible to prop walk than rudder angle when not under way. The difference with a prop forward of the rudder will be when under way when it will increase the rudders effect. However as the prop will have been designed to work when underway under sail this won't mean you have a problem. The biggest reason most props are hung aft of the propshaft is it's difficult to get it the other way around normally not because of handling.
The thing you will find is that the effect of rudder slam (the tendancy for a tiller to be wrenched over) in reverse which is present in any boat will be accentuated so care will be needed to avoid going backwards too fast. The slow speed manouvering is more a function of keel type and hull configuration than prop. All boats are difficult at slow speed in some respect. You just need to get used to the boat. If you want to have real fun try a light catamaran with a centre prop! Now that really does handle like a Tesco shopping trolly on 3 wheels when parking but you get used to it and work on the advantages rather than moan about its problems! If it's a goodun otherwise go for it and don't be put off...

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

I never quite understand the hysteria associated with going astern with long keels and/or odd prop arrangements ..... there's nothing you can't get the hang of with a bit of practice ... if you can't get it to steer very well then give it a blast astern, knock it into neutral, steer it, another blast astern, into neutral, steer etc etc. Anything can be made to work ok .... people worry too much and I suspect half the worries are expressed by those who've never gone astern in a long-keeler! ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[boatmike]

Dead right Kittern. Lots of boats have problems as I said in my post. I think the problem is that there have been a good number of fin and skeg boats built in the last 20 years with light weight and big engines that are easy to handle. Cheating really!

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

Yup .... my old winklebarge handles like a pig on a lilo .... you get the hang of it pretty quickly when you're charging astern at 5 knots straight at the pontoon! Piece of cake! ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif