DAKA
Well-Known Member
Thanks I've deleted.
How Stormy A Sea Have You Been in?
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Now its a mystery photo!
jimi
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
I've exited via the north channel in a F7 at Hurst and seen spray breaking over the Needles, I've also exited through the Needles in a F5 and got concerned around the Bridge with breaking waves
I've exited via the north channel in a F7 at Hurst and seen spray breaking over the Needles, I've also exited through the Needles in a F5 and got concerned around the Bridge with breaking waves
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
Then just imagine an f10 from any direction and a 21 foot boat in it!!!!
I think that the claims of f10's etc are maybe based upon not the real weather conditions but the reported weather conditions that frankly can not even be related - last weekend reported f8 ... actual measured f3.
So how do most power boaters know what wind is blowing - how do they measure it? I can actually do that because I have the instruments but few have that on a power boat.
Imagine that there was an f10 blowing and the sea state was calm ( I know that is not really possible) then in such calm seas you can have wind forces on the boat from almost any direction of the wind itself plus or minus the speed of the boat - at even 20 knots winds relative to the boat, in a head sea, can be of the order of 100 mph. Very unsafe in a 21 foot boat.
Now add a bouncy sea and the ability of the wind to catch the boat from any direction - you could just imagine how easy it would be to flip the boat.
The same rules of physics on this apply anywhere.
The survey shows that a f7 is about it for most people - I am not even going to count the f12 folks because I think they were in big ships and even that was a big worry.
Then just imagine an f10 from any direction and a 21 foot boat in it!!!!
I think that the claims of f10's etc are maybe based upon not the real weather conditions but the reported weather conditions that frankly can not even be related - last weekend reported f8 ... actual measured f3.
So how do most power boaters know what wind is blowing - how do they measure it? I can actually do that because I have the instruments but few have that on a power boat.
Imagine that there was an f10 blowing and the sea state was calm ( I know that is not really possible) then in such calm seas you can have wind forces on the boat from almost any direction of the wind itself plus or minus the speed of the boat - at even 20 knots winds relative to the boat, in a head sea, can be of the order of 100 mph. Very unsafe in a 21 foot boat.
Now add a bouncy sea and the ability of the wind to catch the boat from any direction - you could just imagine how easy it would be to flip the boat.
The same rules of physics on this apply anywhere.
The survey shows that a f7 is about it for most people - I am not even going to count the f12 folks because I think they were in big ships and even that was a big worry.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Photos speak for themselves.
Analyse this Gludy !
Picture in my Avatar to left, Where theres a will theres a way.
"Isabela"
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Analyse this Gludy !
Picture in my Avatar to left, Where theres a will theres a way.
"Isabela"
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Sorry I really cannot make much out in the picture below your name ..... in this case me thinks that words may be better than a small picture.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I have emailed you full size photo along with
A SMALL WORD
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
A SMALL WORD
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Gludy
Well-Known Member
No probel - that hurricane will be an f12, so if a 21 footer is ok in an f10, maybe you will need a 30 footer to get through the mere f12... 
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree, a 30 ft plane hull which tends to float over the waves.
A 30 ft semi- dis hull would just stuff bow in.
NOT WITH ME ON BOARD EITHER.
A 30 ft semi- dis hull would just stuff bow in.
NOT WITH ME ON BOARD EITHER.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Oh dear Daka .... oh dear .....
So you probably folow the previous the school of thought from a previous thread that stated RNLI ribs were used in rougher weather that the SD hulls like the new Tamar class lifeboat cannot cope with?
Now do not blame me for responding ... you did the red rag!!!
Or are you displaying displacement behaviour to get us off the subject on this thread?
If I had a 70 mph wind I would be a lot happier sitting IN the water in an SD or D hull rather than ON the water in a planing hull. Such winds can blow the planing boat all over the place a lot easier than they can a D or SDS hulled boat.
But no doubt you will explain to me that you venture out in an f12 in a 21 foot planing boat and actually get it to fly in the air therefore offering a much smotther and faster mode of travel ... if you claim that, I would beleive you!!
So you probably folow the previous the school of thought from a previous thread that stated RNLI ribs were used in rougher weather that the SD hulls like the new Tamar class lifeboat cannot cope with?
Now do not blame me for responding ... you did the red rag!!!
Or are you displaying displacement behaviour to get us off the subject on this thread?
If I had a 70 mph wind I would be a lot happier sitting IN the water in an SD or D hull rather than ON the water in a planing hull. Such winds can blow the planing boat all over the place a lot easier than they can a D or SDS hulled boat.
But no doubt you will explain to me that you venture out in an f12 in a 21 foot planing boat and actually get it to fly in the air therefore offering a much smotther and faster mode of travel ... if you claim that, I would beleive you!!
DAKA
Well-Known Member
yes
yes
yes
****
30ft PLANE hull !
yes
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
yes
yes
****
30ft PLANE hull !
yes
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Sheessh, and I said I wouldn't respond. But cannot let you get away with this. This really is my final comment in this thread.
F10 is not 70 mph, it starts at 55mph and stops at 63, or 48 knts so get that particular statistic out of your head
Ah! Now we get down to the root of it. You think planing boats don't have any draft, and that going out in a planing boat means you have to be at planing speed, so will get blown around as they are out of the water. Why can't a planing boat go at displacement speed in rough weather? - mine does. and as explained before, no flybridge, and quite a small profile, so no huge exposure to wind drift in the way some bigger boats have.
Yes. Some planing hulls are actually better at high speed in some wave conditions, as they do indeed go over the tops of waves in a way that larger and heavier boats won't. That's a side issue, and in chop rather than rougher conditions. This is 50/50. I've raced a pure deep V race bred boat in quite rough conditions, an Extreme, and they were amazed - no one had ever kept up with them before (they'd have lost me in smooth conditions, as they had far more power), and they had an engine nearly double my size. Their comment was that my boat looked like a plane with only the very rear of the hull and the outdrive in the water. They instead were ploughing through the water. They looked like they had the smoother ride though, and I'd love to try out something like a Hunton.
Gludy, I suspect sometimes you are just a wind up merchant, with limited experience of real world boating, as shown by the way you nit pick on words and little details (often getting them wrong, as is the case with the wind speed for a F10), without ever considering the fact that people have done the things you say are impossible.
I'd have happily chatted away with you about the real experiences of taking a boat out in rough weather and what you can learn from it, but all you ever want to do is point score, and zone in on one or two quickly typed words from a much previous post, and use that as the basis of all your arguements.
That's it from me.
F10 is not 70 mph, it starts at 55mph and stops at 63, or 48 knts so get that particular statistic out of your head
Ah! Now we get down to the root of it. You think planing boats don't have any draft, and that going out in a planing boat means you have to be at planing speed, so will get blown around as they are out of the water. Why can't a planing boat go at displacement speed in rough weather? - mine does. and as explained before, no flybridge, and quite a small profile, so no huge exposure to wind drift in the way some bigger boats have.
Yes. Some planing hulls are actually better at high speed in some wave conditions, as they do indeed go over the tops of waves in a way that larger and heavier boats won't. That's a side issue, and in chop rather than rougher conditions. This is 50/50. I've raced a pure deep V race bred boat in quite rough conditions, an Extreme, and they were amazed - no one had ever kept up with them before (they'd have lost me in smooth conditions, as they had far more power), and they had an engine nearly double my size. Their comment was that my boat looked like a plane with only the very rear of the hull and the outdrive in the water. They instead were ploughing through the water. They looked like they had the smoother ride though, and I'd love to try out something like a Hunton.
Gludy, I suspect sometimes you are just a wind up merchant, with limited experience of real world boating, as shown by the way you nit pick on words and little details (often getting them wrong, as is the case with the wind speed for a F10), without ever considering the fact that people have done the things you say are impossible.
I'd have happily chatted away with you about the real experiences of taking a boat out in rough weather and what you can learn from it, but all you ever want to do is point score, and zone in on one or two quickly typed words from a much previous post, and use that as the basis of all your arguements.
That's it from me.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
The 70 mph was the speed of an f11 that was being claimed back on the thread by others. In any event gusts in an f10 can be higher than the stated winmd speed for f10.
A planing boat at displacement speed is not as stable as a D or SD boat at those speeds - I can quote you chapter and verse on this from many books.
"Yes. Some planing hulls are actually better at high speed in some wave conditions, as they do indeed go over the tops of waves in a way that larger and heavier boats won't. " Agreed.
"They looked like they had the smoother ride though, and I'd love to try out something like a Hunton. " Understood and agreed.
"Gludy, I suspect sometimes you are just a wind up merchant, with limited experience of real world boating, as shown by the way you nit pick on words and little details (often getting them wrong, as is the case with the wind speed for a F10), without ever considering the fact that people have done the things you say are impossible. "
Some of these threads are pure fun yes but they are founded on serious points. I did not get the wind speed wrong - the figure came from the f10/f11 conditions that was a postion taken up by another person in support of you. They even queried the speed as they thought I quoted knots not mph but my quote was correct.
You have not answered my point about how you measure these wind speeds when you are out but frankly I do not consider it nit picking to state that taking any 21 foot boat out in a f10 in any sea state is foolhardy and 90% of the people who voted agreed with me on that.
I totally accept and have clearly stated that I do not have anything like your experience .... but that does not make me wrong and you right on this issue. I am sure that the vast majority of people who are very much more experienced than you or I would also agree that a 21 foot planing power boat in any f10 winds is a foolhardy situation to be willingly in. That is the point and personal remarks based on incorrect facts will not change that.
"have done the things you say are impossible." Never said impossible I have said foolhardy and have asked how you determined the wind speed, a question that no one has answered.
"I'd have happily chatted away with you about the real experiences of taking a boat out in rough weather and what you can learn from it, but all you ever want to do is point score, and zone in on one or two quickly typed words from a much previous post, and use that as the basis of all your arguements. "
I actually tried to diffuse the main thread by opening up one that poked fun at the whole situation and you happily took part in a good natured way in that. I am not zoning in on one or two words - there is a clear difference of opinion on a significant issue between us regarding taking a boat out into an f10 - that is not zoning in on a few words - its identifying and zoning in on an issue.
I really would have appreciated and valued chatting about your real experiences on how to handle a boat in rough weather.
A planing boat at displacement speed is not as stable as a D or SD boat at those speeds - I can quote you chapter and verse on this from many books.
"Yes. Some planing hulls are actually better at high speed in some wave conditions, as they do indeed go over the tops of waves in a way that larger and heavier boats won't. " Agreed.
"They looked like they had the smoother ride though, and I'd love to try out something like a Hunton. " Understood and agreed.
"Gludy, I suspect sometimes you are just a wind up merchant, with limited experience of real world boating, as shown by the way you nit pick on words and little details (often getting them wrong, as is the case with the wind speed for a F10), without ever considering the fact that people have done the things you say are impossible. "
Some of these threads are pure fun yes but they are founded on serious points. I did not get the wind speed wrong - the figure came from the f10/f11 conditions that was a postion taken up by another person in support of you. They even queried the speed as they thought I quoted knots not mph but my quote was correct.
You have not answered my point about how you measure these wind speeds when you are out but frankly I do not consider it nit picking to state that taking any 21 foot boat out in a f10 in any sea state is foolhardy and 90% of the people who voted agreed with me on that.
I totally accept and have clearly stated that I do not have anything like your experience .... but that does not make me wrong and you right on this issue. I am sure that the vast majority of people who are very much more experienced than you or I would also agree that a 21 foot planing power boat in any f10 winds is a foolhardy situation to be willingly in. That is the point and personal remarks based on incorrect facts will not change that.
"have done the things you say are impossible." Never said impossible I have said foolhardy and have asked how you determined the wind speed, a question that no one has answered.
"I'd have happily chatted away with you about the real experiences of taking a boat out in rough weather and what you can learn from it, but all you ever want to do is point score, and zone in on one or two quickly typed words from a much previous post, and use that as the basis of all your arguements. "
I actually tried to diffuse the main thread by opening up one that poked fun at the whole situation and you happily took part in a good natured way in that. I am not zoning in on one or two words - there is a clear difference of opinion on a significant issue between us regarding taking a boat out into an f10 - that is not zoning in on a few words - its identifying and zoning in on an issue.
I really would have appreciated and valued chatting about your real experiences on how to handle a boat in rough weather.
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
I did not get the wind speed wrong - the figure came from the f10/f11 conditions that was a postion taken up by another person in support of you. They even queried the speed as they thought I quoted knots not mph but my quote was correct.
Sounds like you are referring to me Gludy but I in actual fact I did not get the wind speed wrong for F10 as you infer, as what I said was actually in respect to F11 -
Your post Paul refers to 70 knots for F11, F11 is actually 56-63 knots I believe
You pointed out that you had actually written 70 mph which I accepted that you had and that is correct too for F11.
Indeed F11 is as I said it was and F10 is as Brendan has just said it was and it seems F11 is what you said it was but F10 is definitely not 70mph nor 63 knots as I think we are all now agreed - So I assume we can all have a rest now. I certainly am going to, it seems Brendan is also going to and maybe you are going to too.
See, I can dissect with the best of them /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
Sounds like you are referring to me Gludy but I in actual fact I did not get the wind speed wrong for F10 as you infer, as what I said was actually in respect to F11 -
Your post Paul refers to 70 knots for F11, F11 is actually 56-63 knots I believe
You pointed out that you had actually written 70 mph which I accepted that you had and that is correct too for F11.
Indeed F11 is as I said it was and F10 is as Brendan has just said it was and it seems F11 is what you said it was but F10 is definitely not 70mph nor 63 knots as I think we are all now agreed - So I assume we can all have a rest now. I certainly am going to, it seems Brendan is also going to and maybe you are going to too.
See, I can dissect with the best of them /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
Gludy
Well-Known Member
No - please read what i have been saying throughout I quoted 70 mph in response to the f11 - someone stated i was wrong and read it as knots I then pointed out I quoted mph and they wirhdrew - its all in the the thread ... and who is nit picking now?
"See, I can dissect with the best of them "
Yep you can but the trouble is you get it wrong /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
"See, I can dissect with the best of them "
Yep you can but the trouble is you get it wrong /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
someone stated i was wrong and read it as knots I then pointed out I quoted mph and they wirhdrew
...and who might that have been? - look back, you will see that it twas I who was the someone /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
...and who might that have been? - look back, you will see that it twas I who was the someone /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Yep but just saying someone save me scrolling back ... I really knew it was you who got confused between mph and knots but did not want to rub it in.... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Cats don't mind a good rub.
Regards
John
Regards
John
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So I assume we can all have a rest now. I certainly am going to, it seems Brendan is also going to and maybe you are going to too
[/ QUOTE ]
na - we're in sight of 200, it would be shame to stop just a few posts short /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
So I assume we can all have a rest now. I certainly am going to, it seems Brendan is also going to and maybe you are going to too
[/ QUOTE ]
na - we're in sight of 200, it would be shame to stop just a few posts short /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
whisper
Well-Known Member
Oh and there was me thinking that you had the sense to gracefully retire from this fray.
I follow the same practice as you in that I'll regularly go and see what conditions are like whatever the suggested wind speed is. As you say, this can sometimes mean that you are out in very high winds but are easily able to cope. This is because the sea-state is not what one would expect it to be for the given wind speed.
I suspect that if you know the area well enough then you wouldn't even bother to go out to sea at all. For me, that would be in a gale force S.E'ly blowing against an ebbing Spring tide at Salcombe Bar. I can put up with 4-5m waves for a short while but not if they are vertical and breaking - in this situation I don't feel skilled enough to be safe.
I also find that I will try to get experience of worse conditions when I'm on my own as against when I'm responsible for members of crew.
I follow the same practice as you in that I'll regularly go and see what conditions are like whatever the suggested wind speed is. As you say, this can sometimes mean that you are out in very high winds but are easily able to cope. This is because the sea-state is not what one would expect it to be for the given wind speed.
I suspect that if you know the area well enough then you wouldn't even bother to go out to sea at all. For me, that would be in a gale force S.E'ly blowing against an ebbing Spring tide at Salcombe Bar. I can put up with 4-5m waves for a short while but not if they are vertical and breaking - in this situation I don't feel skilled enough to be safe.
I also find that I will try to get experience of worse conditions when I'm on my own as against when I'm responsible for members of crew.
