Solitaire
Well-Known Member
We did rather didn't we! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
How Stormy A Sea Have You Been in?
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
Thank you Oldgit,
Yikes I hit a nerve there me thinks!. As I said before I am new here so I can not be expected to know the form from past posters, I was only trying to show what 'real weather' looks like, not the stuff that props up the yacht club bar, however if my input is un-welcome, thanks for the chat, I'll bugger off.
Not sure if you are having a pop at my experience in forums or as a yachty / boater. If its in this forum my apologies, if not let me just give you this, I have seen enough bravado's in my time sobing their hearts out having been brought home after having been too fool hardy. Listen to the guilt and remorse of someone at a cornors inquest trying to explain why they were out in severe weather in a pleasure boat.
Our hobby / pastime is not like playing darts, its a fantastic and wonderful past time but has the potential to kill you of you are fool hardy. Some of the people here are relatively in-experienced, we don't want people thinking its alright to have a go in bad weather. No one should be setting out for a jolly in bad weather no matter where you boat from. If you get caught out because of a bad forecast or mechanical failure fair enough you do your best and hope everyone gets home safely, to deliberately set out in the knowledge its going to be rough/bad is a sure sign of an in-experienced boater.
Thank you Oldgit,
Yikes I hit a nerve there me thinks!. As I said before I am new here so I can not be expected to know the form from past posters, I was only trying to show what 'real weather' looks like, not the stuff that props up the yacht club bar, however if my input is un-welcome, thanks for the chat, I'll bugger off.
Not sure if you are having a pop at my experience in forums or as a yachty / boater. If its in this forum my apologies, if not let me just give you this, I have seen enough bravado's in my time sobing their hearts out having been brought home after having been too fool hardy. Listen to the guilt and remorse of someone at a cornors inquest trying to explain why they were out in severe weather in a pleasure boat.
Our hobby / pastime is not like playing darts, its a fantastic and wonderful past time but has the potential to kill you of you are fool hardy. Some of the people here are relatively in-experienced, we don't want people thinking its alright to have a go in bad weather. No one should be setting out for a jolly in bad weather no matter where you boat from. If you get caught out because of a bad forecast or mechanical failure fair enough you do your best and hope everyone gets home safely, to deliberately set out in the knowledge its going to be rough/bad is a sure sign of an in-experienced boater.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
The points you raised and the questions you asked were logical and sensible. You have stepped on some sensitive toes in just the same way I do ... so do not bugger off, you are welcome, in fact as far as I am concerned very welcome. The attack on you was totally unjustified but you are not alone in receiving this treatment - its a pity because frankly there is a small cluster of forumites that often treat new comers this way as if they want to keep the forum all to themselves!
I grimaced when I saw the attack on you.
Frankly all your remarks about weather are totally correct and that is whay you have offended the old guard.
I shall now take cover ....
The points you raised and the questions you asked were logical and sensible. You have stepped on some sensitive toes in just the same way I do ... so do not bugger off, you are welcome, in fact as far as I am concerned very welcome. The attack on you was totally unjustified but you are not alone in receiving this treatment - its a pity because frankly there is a small cluster of forumites that often treat new comers this way as if they want to keep the forum all to themselves!
I grimaced when I saw the attack on you.
Frankly all your remarks about weather are totally correct and that is whay you have offended the old guard.
I shall now take cover ....
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
Thank you for that Paul,
For a moment I thought I had stumbled into a 'mines bigger than yours' type forum where everyone is out doing the other.
I am the first to admit to extending the truth a little when hanging off the bar after a few too many, again its all part of the rich and colourful world of boating, however out in a storm 10 off the Needles in a 21 foot boat is kinda pushing it a bit.
I was just a bit worried someone might take that seriously and think we are all nutters!. A storm 10 is not something anyone should even consider being out in no matter how skilled or experienced you are. I take the point about gaining experience but there is not much point in trying to gain it if it kills you at the same time.
It like saying ''I'll just drive my BMW X5 through this war zone and hope the bullets bounce off'', most will miss but one will eventually rip through you like a tin can!.
Thank you for that Paul,
For a moment I thought I had stumbled into a 'mines bigger than yours' type forum where everyone is out doing the other.
I am the first to admit to extending the truth a little when hanging off the bar after a few too many, again its all part of the rich and colourful world of boating, however out in a storm 10 off the Needles in a 21 foot boat is kinda pushing it a bit.
I was just a bit worried someone might take that seriously and think we are all nutters!. A storm 10 is not something anyone should even consider being out in no matter how skilled or experienced you are. I take the point about gaining experience but there is not much point in trying to gain it if it kills you at the same time.
It like saying ''I'll just drive my BMW X5 through this war zone and hope the bullets bounce off'', most will miss but one will eventually rip through you like a tin can!.
jimi
Well-Known Member
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
Absolutely .. F10 is survival conditions for a well found yacht. In a Mobo its serious [censored]!
Absolutely .. F10 is survival conditions for a well found yacht. In a Mobo its serious [censored]!
powerskipper
Well-Known Member
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
Welcome to the forum,
there are a few grumpy old men on here who like to throw there toys around, Just talk to the rest of us, we're nice.
So welcome again and hope to see post from you in the future.
Welcome to the forum,
there are a few grumpy old men on here who like to throw there toys around, Just talk to the rest of us, we're nice.
So welcome again and hope to see post from you in the future.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
I really manage to put peoples backs up on this forum - all you need do is apply little logical steps - they react and very soon you are getting extremes out of some folk ... when they find themselves up the creek without a paddle on these extremes they get out of it by attacking you ..... its all a very predictable process.
If you were vague, said nothing but bar side chat etc ... you would get on OK around here - but you did not do that you pointed out that is was frankly absurd to go around the Needles into a f10 in a 21 foot boat and to actually do it intentionally - that came under the heading of a firm opinion and that will not be tolerated - so you were attacked.... very simple.
My view is that anyone going out in any leisure boat into a f10 regardless of its direction, regardless of any other factor is a fool and poses a danger to the folks that may have to set about the rescue ..... it is totally irresponsible .... now there I feel brave now that others have joined me.
Mind you having seen the cock ups made in the Met office forecasts recently, I reckon its possible to go out in a f4 and when you get back be told you were in a f10.
Very ,very few motor boats head out in a f7 that may get worse - very few. I would not inetionally do that in a 60 foot boat.
I really manage to put peoples backs up on this forum - all you need do is apply little logical steps - they react and very soon you are getting extremes out of some folk ... when they find themselves up the creek without a paddle on these extremes they get out of it by attacking you ..... its all a very predictable process.
If you were vague, said nothing but bar side chat etc ... you would get on OK around here - but you did not do that you pointed out that is was frankly absurd to go around the Needles into a f10 in a 21 foot boat and to actually do it intentionally - that came under the heading of a firm opinion and that will not be tolerated - so you were attacked.... very simple.
My view is that anyone going out in any leisure boat into a f10 regardless of its direction, regardless of any other factor is a fool and poses a danger to the folks that may have to set about the rescue ..... it is totally irresponsible .... now there I feel brave now that others have joined me.
Mind you having seen the cock ups made in the Met office forecasts recently, I reckon its possible to go out in a f4 and when you get back be told you were in a f10.
Very ,very few motor boats head out in a f7 that may get worse - very few. I would not inetionally do that in a 60 foot boat.
tcm
...
Re: The wine glass test and other considerations.
hi and welcome. Not utterly sure where you were attacked (brendan? dunno, tho i think he typoed somewhere) but anyway, welcome along.
The poll feature, incidentally, is notriously rubbish as they are anonymous.
hi and welcome. Not utterly sure where you were attacked (brendan? dunno, tho i think he typoed somewhere) but anyway, welcome along.
The poll feature, incidentally, is notriously rubbish as they are anonymous.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Re:Incoming fire.........Sorry Nautic.
But that post was not aimed even remotely in your direction,but elsewhere.Bit of a riccochet.
Welcome to the forum. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
But that post was not aimed even remotely in your direction,but elsewhere.Bit of a riccochet.
Welcome to the forum. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
milltech
Well-Known Member
I claim a semi-sheltered SW F9 off the NE Coast of Scotland. Had left Buckie and all was OK for several hours until we headed S then as we got further from the coast the effect started to register on my stomach. First time out and I thought I really should take a peek in the engine room, went in and peered over the engines to read the Gardner temperature guages and with the heat and the oil and the movement I only just made it to the great white telephone in time, and didn't really move away from it for about 18 hours except to lie in a bunk groaning.
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Re:Incoming fire.........Sorry Nautic.
Thanks guys for the warm welcome, hope to be a regular poster.
Sorry oldgit, I wasn't responding to you but Brendan, no offense from any of your posts.
I understand peoples enthusiasim for our sport/hobby, I am as passionate as the next guy, but it does none of us any good if people rubbish others or make outlandish claims of their exploits, we all end up looking like a bunch of anorak pratts. We all have a story to tell some more exciting than others but all just as valid.
Actually, the best of my exploits and memories were in relatively calm conditions, I ve been in plenty of up and downy stuff but after a while it gets boring, pounding along hour after hour, hanging on for dear life, hammering the boat, burning loads of fuel, breaking bits off etc, done that thanks don't need to prove anything anymore.
Thanks guys for the warm welcome, hope to be a regular poster.
Sorry oldgit, I wasn't responding to you but Brendan, no offense from any of your posts.
I understand peoples enthusiasim for our sport/hobby, I am as passionate as the next guy, but it does none of us any good if people rubbish others or make outlandish claims of their exploits, we all end up looking like a bunch of anorak pratts. We all have a story to tell some more exciting than others but all just as valid.
Actually, the best of my exploits and memories were in relatively calm conditions, I ve been in plenty of up and downy stuff but after a while it gets boring, pounding along hour after hour, hanging on for dear life, hammering the boat, burning loads of fuel, breaking bits off etc, done that thanks don't need to prove anything anymore.
Sammo
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
Welcome Trevor
Sorry to see you were flamed .
As someone who lived on a ship I don’t think the gale force pictures did the sea justice as they can’t show the noise and spray associated with a force 12, also the mist that hovers above the crests with everything going sideways, has to be seen to be believed.
It seemed to be unreal like watching something on a large cinema screen.
Going out in a small boat in a force 10. I don`t see how you could get it off the pontoon let alone take it out into the open sea.
Paul
Looks like the raggies have sabotaged your poll but thanks for an interesting thread and congratulations on the count.
...................
Make haste slowly
Welcome Trevor
Sorry to see you were flamed .
As someone who lived on a ship I don’t think the gale force pictures did the sea justice as they can’t show the noise and spray associated with a force 12, also the mist that hovers above the crests with everything going sideways, has to be seen to be believed.
It seemed to be unreal like watching something on a large cinema screen.
Going out in a small boat in a force 10. I don`t see how you could get it off the pontoon let alone take it out into the open sea.
Paul
Looks like the raggies have sabotaged your poll but thanks for an interesting thread and congratulations on the count.
...................
Make haste slowly
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
UncleAlbert
Not really worried about the poll - the idea was to get everyone talking about their wost conditions but as always with my threads some extreme postions are taken and frankly a f10 with a 21 foot boat is extreme.
Never the less it has been a good thread.
UncleAlbert
Not really worried about the poll - the idea was to get everyone talking about their wost conditions but as always with my threads some extreme postions are taken and frankly a f10 with a 21 foot boat is extreme.
Never the less it has been a good thread.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
Poeple seem to be getting confused again between sea state and wind strength. It is entirely possible to pop down the south coast outside the Solent in a F7 or 8, often in flat calm, as the wind direction is such that the fetch doesn't give the sea chance to build up, and if there is no wind over tide.
Similarly a trip of a mile or two in a F10 is actually quite good fun if you are that way inclined, as long as the sea conditions are reasonable. The armchair critics seemed determined to make this out to be suicidal and cause for an RNLI statistic. They seem determined to miss out bits of posts like turning back in a F4 because the conditions were too bad, as this doesn't suit the position they have already taken.
If you are after real life experience, rather than thoughts by people who haven't bothered to try, then maybe change the title of posts in future.
By the way, my 'berth' is extremely sheltered from most wind directions, so getting on and off is not that much of an issue, and not having a flybridge, or high sides, means I'm not as affected anyway
Poeple seem to be getting confused again between sea state and wind strength. It is entirely possible to pop down the south coast outside the Solent in a F7 or 8, often in flat calm, as the wind direction is such that the fetch doesn't give the sea chance to build up, and if there is no wind over tide.
Similarly a trip of a mile or two in a F10 is actually quite good fun if you are that way inclined, as long as the sea conditions are reasonable. The armchair critics seemed determined to make this out to be suicidal and cause for an RNLI statistic. They seem determined to miss out bits of posts like turning back in a F4 because the conditions were too bad, as this doesn't suit the position they have already taken.
If you are after real life experience, rather than thoughts by people who haven't bothered to try, then maybe change the title of posts in future.
By the way, my 'berth' is extremely sheltered from most wind directions, so getting on and off is not that much of an issue, and not having a flybridge, or high sides, means I'm not as affected anyway
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
I think that what people are shocked at is going around the Needles in any f10 from any direction in a 21 foot boat.
I agree that sea state is what matters but any f10 is surely dangerous for a 21 foot motor boat?
That does not make us armchair critics, it does not mean that anyone who disagrees with you has to be personally attacked.
I am certain that you have had more experience at heavy seas than me but that does not make the point I and others make about such a small boat being out in any f10 a valid point.
I think that what people are shocked at is going around the Needles in any f10 from any direction in a 21 foot boat.
I agree that sea state is what matters but any f10 is surely dangerous for a 21 foot motor boat?
That does not make us armchair critics, it does not mean that anyone who disagrees with you has to be personally attacked.
I am certain that you have had more experience at heavy seas than me but that does not make the point I and others make about such a small boat being out in any f10 a valid point.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
OK Gludy, you are always the one that bangs on about using logic, and finding flaws in the arguement. If the sea state is OK in a F10, but abysmal in a F4, under which of those conditions is it more dangerous or shocking?
I personally don't think I've attacked anyone, just expressed an opinion to someone who comes on the forum, describes the people posting on the thread as telling porkies without having read the thread, then instead of posting on personal experience posts pictures of open ocean boating instead of coastal, without making any comment on his experience or relevance of the pictures to what had been a 'fairly' serious thread by the standards of this forum.
OK Gludy, you are always the one that bangs on about using logic, and finding flaws in the arguement. If the sea state is OK in a F10, but abysmal in a F4, under which of those conditions is it more dangerous or shocking?
I personally don't think I've attacked anyone, just expressed an opinion to someone who comes on the forum, describes the people posting on the thread as telling porkies without having read the thread, then instead of posting on personal experience posts pictures of open ocean boating instead of coastal, without making any comment on his experience or relevance of the pictures to what had been a 'fairly' serious thread by the standards of this forum.
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
Quite. I have sat on an anchor in F10-11 and would have been quite happy motoring around in a 21 foot power boat in the particular sea state circumstances. The seas were, obviously, nothing like in the photos.
People seem to forget that the Beaufort scale is a scale of wind force and the original concept of the associated sea conditions was just to aid in estimating the wind strength. The Sea State number in the Sea State tables (Pierson - Moskowitz) which are not frequently used now, bear no comparision to the Beaufort numbers.
While most realise that the seas described in the Beaufort scale table are open seas conditions dependant on the duration of the wind and fetch many don't seem to realise that fetch also depends on where in the weather system one is. At the windward end the seas will be much less than in the table, whereas even in lighter winds to leeward there may be very large swells and difficult, for a small boat, smaller seas on them.
I wonder if many countries other than the UK still use the Beaufort scale in their marine forecasts. Most places I know of do not, using speed in knots and describing the sea by significant wave height or, as here, in terms of "calm", etc, through "rough', very rough" etc to "tumultuous" together with the swell conditions.
John
Quite. I have sat on an anchor in F10-11 and would have been quite happy motoring around in a 21 foot power boat in the particular sea state circumstances. The seas were, obviously, nothing like in the photos.
People seem to forget that the Beaufort scale is a scale of wind force and the original concept of the associated sea conditions was just to aid in estimating the wind strength. The Sea State number in the Sea State tables (Pierson - Moskowitz) which are not frequently used now, bear no comparision to the Beaufort numbers.
While most realise that the seas described in the Beaufort scale table are open seas conditions dependant on the duration of the wind and fetch many don't seem to realise that fetch also depends on where in the weather system one is. At the windward end the seas will be much less than in the table, whereas even in lighter winds to leeward there may be very large swells and difficult, for a small boat, smaller seas on them.
I wonder if many countries other than the UK still use the Beaufort scale in their marine forecasts. Most places I know of do not, using speed in knots and describing the sea by significant wave height or, as here, in terms of "calm", etc, through "rough', very rough" etc to "tumultuous" together with the swell conditions.
John
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
Some of the southern UK TV stations actually do rate sea state rather than depend on wind force, but I don't often see them. Probably due to the number of boaters here, but can't comment on the rest of UK as don't see their TV.
The BBC (local south) do, as do their online equivalent, and the met office (eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/coastalforecast/)
Most Northern European countries use Beaufort scale, even the Icelandic site theyr.net.
I'd certainly appreciate a forecast system that used sea state rather than wind index as the forecast method. Though even then it would come down to local knowledge of tides and wind direction to gain an accurate idea of local sea state
None of them use sea state numbers
Some of the southern UK TV stations actually do rate sea state rather than depend on wind force, but I don't often see them. Probably due to the number of boaters here, but can't comment on the rest of UK as don't see their TV.
The BBC (local south) do, as do their online equivalent, and the met office (eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/coastalforecast/)
Most Northern European countries use Beaufort scale, even the Icelandic site theyr.net.
I'd certainly appreciate a forecast system that used sea state rather than wind index as the forecast method. Though even then it would come down to local knowledge of tides and wind direction to gain an accurate idea of local sea state
None of them use sea state numbers
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
After reading the above thread I would like to add than I have definately been out in a the very least what appeared to be a F 15.This was purely for experience.
Please note it was a semi displacement and not a planeing canoe.No stabilisers were used. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
After reading the above thread I would like to add than I have definately been out in a the very least what appeared to be a F 15.This was purely for experience.
Please note it was a semi displacement and not a planeing canoe.No stabilisers were used. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Re:How stormy a sea have you been in
Was it one of these F15's that you went out in? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
John
Was it one of these F15's that you went out in? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
John
