jimi
Well-Known Member
No worries .. not arguing .. just saying my experience ..sorry if it seemed a bit abrupt but practising economy with the keyboard so I can apply it to my purse if TB gets re-elected
How Stormy A Sea Have You Been in?
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Which is exactly what I've been saying all along, but does need airing. Wind has far more effect on a raggie in those conditions that a small sportsboat though. Ping pong ball effect. Small sportsboats float over waves, and if you have an engine running, you can drive through and steer through the rough bits in a way that sailing boats don't manage.
On the other hand have been out in rough stuff in sailing boats too, and it's a quite different experience
On the other hand have been out in rough stuff in sailing boats too, and it's a quite different experience
jimi
Well-Known Member
Yes, but in large hollow breaking waves in a confused sea (wo'nt add in the dark bit) I'd rather be in a boat with large weight at the bottom of the keel.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
I suspect that most would be as unaware of actual windforce as of sea state, unless they have sailed, and built up experience of comparing wind force meter against sea state and forecast winds. Raggie boats have the advantage here, and some time spent sailing undoubtably helps.
An amazing number of posters here have sailed though, so some allowance has to be made for that, as is the difference betweeen a F4 and F10, which even novice boaters could figure out
An amazing number of posters here have sailed though, so some allowance has to be made for that, as is the difference betweeen a F4 and F10, which even novice boaters could figure out
Sammo
Well-Known Member
Roughest I’ve been in a small boat was in a Yacht off Belle Isle, Brittany, the boat was a Sparkman & Stevens 42`wooden ketch with a big drop keel that we used to wind down with a big handle. As the boat rolled from side to side this would go clunk and then clunk again as we rolled the other way. This went on for days, all the crew were totally pissed of with the clunking except old Geoff De`la the owner. That clunking don`t bother you at all does it I asked him,
No says he it’s when it stops clunkin I start to worry.
...........
No says he it’s when it stops clunkin I start to worry.
...........
whisper
Well-Known Member
Yes, same here and the motion of a yacht in rough seas is always much better than in a mobo, provided you can accept the constant heel.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Jimi, you've been out in a lot of conditions on a yacht. I suspect your boating experience in small powerboats or ribs is limited?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Gludy, I think you have to consider the awful prospect that somebody has deliberately bolloxed up your poll. Not guilty in my case
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Any one else out there who thinks that if you cannot stand a 3/4 flute
of a nicely chilled white wine on the table without it spilling...............its too bloody rough.Went out in a F3 and certainly learnt a hard lesson,took weeks to get the chardonny out of the carpet.The TV slid at least a couple of inches to one side as well.
of a nicely chilled white wine on the table without it spilling...............its too bloody rough.Went out in a F3 and certainly learnt a hard lesson,took weeks to get the chardonny out of the carpet.The TV slid at least a couple of inches to one side as well.
tcm
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Re: Any one else out there who thinks that if you cannot stand a 3/4 flute
very wise. I think Byron proclaimed that he only ever really fancied going out in a f1 (moderating).
Separately, a poll i did shows that over 50% of people always vote such that it dramatically skews the result - ie f12. Whereas if you have ever seen an f8 n big open sea (and not from the confines of a uk river or river/marina)you will see no boats.
Depends on local conditio0ns, inshore/protected can be ok - but you would need a protected/easy destination. I did go into an openish med marina with the windex showing 37 knots and managed to get out for a rethink, went back in with every single fender on one side and used wind tio whack into the pontoon against which i was pinned for the next two days, didn't really need any lines.
very wise. I think Byron proclaimed that he only ever really fancied going out in a f1 (moderating).
Separately, a poll i did shows that over 50% of people always vote such that it dramatically skews the result - ie f12. Whereas if you have ever seen an f8 n big open sea (and not from the confines of a uk river or river/marina)you will see no boats.
Depends on local conditio0ns, inshore/protected can be ok - but you would need a protected/easy destination. I did go into an openish med marina with the windex showing 37 knots and managed to get out for a rethink, went back in with every single fender on one side and used wind tio whack into the pontoon against which i was pinned for the next two days, didn't really need any lines.
CliveG
Well-Known Member
Re: When I were a Lad
I used to crew on an Ocean 37.
We came out of Calais one day on the last lock out of that tide and headed for Ramsgate.
We were only able to use the port engine as we had managed to bend the other prop shaft on the way into Calais.
We had been waiting all week for the wind to drop and the forecast offered NE F5/6.
So off we went.
Only able to make 5 knts.
Once we were out we found it much more windy.
F8 the Coastgard told us later.
It took so long that we ended up with wind against tide and some large waves.
Instead of finding the North Goodwin Lightship We ended up half way down the Goodwin Sands.
The waves breaking on the sands where something to see.
We went south around the sands and back up the inside.
I used to crew on an Ocean 37.
We came out of Calais one day on the last lock out of that tide and headed for Ramsgate.
We were only able to use the port engine as we had managed to bend the other prop shaft on the way into Calais.
We had been waiting all week for the wind to drop and the forecast offered NE F5/6.
So off we went.
Only able to make 5 knts.
Once we were out we found it much more windy.
F8 the Coastgard told us later.
It took so long that we ended up with wind against tide and some large waves.
Instead of finding the North Goodwin Lightship We ended up half way down the Goodwin Sands.
The waves breaking on the sands where something to see.
We went south around the sands and back up the inside.
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Haven't read all the posts here, but a point to note which I am sure someone has, a F8 in the Solent is nothing like a F8 in the middle of the Irish Sea especially around the Isle of Man, wind over tide, rips etc make for very confused and nasty seas, back of Douglas Head with SE F8 against the tide not a place you want to be in a hurry.
I would seriously doubt anyone would survive undamaged in a modern planning flybridge boat in a 10. I think there are some porkies flying here, has anyone really seen a modern 40' flybridge boat out in a 10 in open water, I have and I can honestly say it was the most frightening thing I have ever seen around the Irish sea area, bits were flying off it like an airfix kit. The wind was so loud it was impossible to make any communication with some one two feet from you and the spray was like someone sticking a thousand pins in your face.
Not the bravado here just making a point, F10 is really, really scary in anything under 100' and anyone who goes out in it 'to have a look' is off their trolly.
I would seriously doubt anyone would survive undamaged in a modern planning flybridge boat in a 10. I think there are some porkies flying here, has anyone really seen a modern 40' flybridge boat out in a 10 in open water, I have and I can honestly say it was the most frightening thing I have ever seen around the Irish sea area, bits were flying off it like an airfix kit. The wind was so loud it was impossible to make any communication with some one two feet from you and the spray was like someone sticking a thousand pins in your face.
Not the bravado here just making a point, F10 is really, really scary in anything under 100' and anyone who goes out in it 'to have a look' is off their trolly.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
If you read the posts, as you say you haven't, you'll see this point has been covered
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Apologies, new to this, did'nt realise you could click to further pages, what an idiot!
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Now you've got the hang of it!, welcome.
Different people will have different perspectives. Such as what is offshore, and will you get rips and currents truely offshore - myself, going round headlands like St Albans or Portland, which both have rip currents, will avoid times when you can get wind over tide, or use the inside passages very close to shore (very close), or go miles offshore, about 7 miles and 9 miles respectively for the above two examples, so avoiding most of the wind over tide and rip effects.
Going out in a big blow, it's much often easier the further off shore you are, even if the wind is stronger, as the waves are more even and less steep, and less subject to shallow water, rips, and other effects.
Different people will have different perspectives. Such as what is offshore, and will you get rips and currents truely offshore - myself, going round headlands like St Albans or Portland, which both have rip currents, will avoid times when you can get wind over tide, or use the inside passages very close to shore (very close), or go miles offshore, about 7 miles and 9 miles respectively for the above two examples, so avoiding most of the wind over tide and rip effects.
Going out in a big blow, it's much often easier the further off shore you are, even if the wind is stronger, as the waves are more even and less steep, and less subject to shallow water, rips, and other effects.
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the welcome.
Exactly as you say, however I think most people tend to over estimate the wind or conditions they were out in (me included) but that is all part of the boating experience, just like fishing, the one that got away was always bigger!.
Take your point about staying offshore when its blowing a bit. We just brought our new boat back from Liverpool to the IOM a few weeks ago. Hunky dorey all the way over 4-5, five mile off Douglas you start to feel the effects of the tide splitting from the north of the island and although the wind was fairly constant the sea state kicked up quite bit and knocked us back to about 20knts or less yet at slack water with the same wind speed and direction you could hold a good 27/8knts.
The open water sometimes gives you a false sense of security, just as you start to make land fall things might get hairy. Many have come a cropper on the last few miles making for the Island, you start to relax as you can see land and then suddenly its all going pear shaped. Even so a ten in any part of the sea or ocean in a planning boat is really asking for trouble as its not only the sea state your dealing with but also the windage of such a large amount of freeboard and upperworks relative to the bit thats in the wet stuff, a ten pushes you around like a put-put boat in a theme park.
Exactly as you say, however I think most people tend to over estimate the wind or conditions they were out in (me included) but that is all part of the boating experience, just like fishing, the one that got away was always bigger!.
Take your point about staying offshore when its blowing a bit. We just brought our new boat back from Liverpool to the IOM a few weeks ago. Hunky dorey all the way over 4-5, five mile off Douglas you start to feel the effects of the tide splitting from the north of the island and although the wind was fairly constant the sea state kicked up quite bit and knocked us back to about 20knts or less yet at slack water with the same wind speed and direction you could hold a good 27/8knts.
The open water sometimes gives you a false sense of security, just as you start to make land fall things might get hairy. Many have come a cropper on the last few miles making for the Island, you start to relax as you can see land and then suddenly its all going pear shaped. Even so a ten in any part of the sea or ocean in a planning boat is really asking for trouble as its not only the sea state your dealing with but also the windage of such a large amount of freeboard and upperworks relative to the bit thats in the wet stuff, a ten pushes you around like a put-put boat in a theme park.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Again, it depends on the boat, the power available, and knowledge of skipper.
It's not that hard to estimate wind or wave conditions. In my experience, in a 21' boat, if the bottom of the boat is clear of the bottom of the trough, and the bow has yet to come close to the crest of the swell, then it's at least 10' high (waves aren't vertical}. If froth is blowing off the top of the wave, then it's time to be very close to home
If the wind is blowing strongly enough to blow you off track, you have to start thinking of 'tacking' just like a raggie does, rather than just pointing where the gps or plotter says you should be heading, and have some idea of vectors. Not difficult really if you understand the principles from base up.
I suspect people who fly and sail have more of an instinctive feel for these things, because they've been taught and have been subject more to these forces than the typical powerboater who doesn't usually go out in strong winds
It's not that hard to estimate wind or wave conditions. In my experience, in a 21' boat, if the bottom of the boat is clear of the bottom of the trough, and the bow has yet to come close to the crest of the swell, then it's at least 10' high (waves aren't vertical}. If froth is blowing off the top of the wave, then it's time to be very close to home
If the wind is blowing strongly enough to blow you off track, you have to start thinking of 'tacking' just like a raggie does, rather than just pointing where the gps or plotter says you should be heading, and have some idea of vectors. Not difficult really if you understand the principles from base up.
I suspect people who fly and sail have more of an instinctive feel for these things, because they've been taught and have been subject more to these forces than the typical powerboater who doesn't usually go out in strong winds
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Have a look at the storm ten and tell me who in their right mind goes out in their Fairline/Sunseeker etc and has 'a look' in that weather . Ok so its in open water but I think you get the idea.
Reality check I think!
[image]http://www.geology.wmich.edu/Kominz/windwater.html[/image]
Reality check I think!
[image]http://www.geology.wmich.edu/Kominz/windwater.html[/image]
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
There are a b'sxillion web sites showing similar pictures, anyone of which anyone on these forums can pick off if skilled enough. What you don't show......any knowledge of what we are talking about, or any level of skill by which you should be taken seriously
All these pics been posted before many times, so if you were serious in debate, you would've known that, and not bothererd. <sigh>
All these pics been posted before many times, so if you were serious in debate, you would've known that, and not bothererd. <sigh>
oldgit
Well-Known Member
The wine glass test and other considerations.
Respectfully suggest that the next time somebody is considering going out in doubtful weather for" fun" and or "experience", that just before they leave the shelter of the harbour a quick though be given to the consequences of them getting it wrong.You may be 'experienced" enough with your plastic soapdish but the poor old 6 or 7 sods who will come and get you in their 20 ton lifeboat my not be up to your standards.Dissapate your testosterone by skydiving or something else which does not involve someone else getting involved. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Respectfully suggest that the next time somebody is considering going out in doubtful weather for" fun" and or "experience", that just before they leave the shelter of the harbour a quick though be given to the consequences of them getting it wrong.You may be 'experienced" enough with your plastic soapdish but the poor old 6 or 7 sods who will come and get you in their 20 ton lifeboat my not be up to your standards.Dissapate your testosterone by skydiving or something else which does not involve someone else getting involved. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
