How stable is a lift keel on the mooring

[Seajet]

if it raises so its flush with the hull, fine. if into a stub keel and not drying out to a mud bottom, not so fine.

Nonsense, it's the other way round !

My Anderson 22 has the 900lb ballast bulb outside the hull and settles upright in mud, she has also been through hurricane force winds at her swinging mooring wiith no trouble.

One of the 3 Andersons which raced across the Atlantic did it with the keel up whenever the wind was following, she was still self righting.

Boats with keels which retract fully into the hull usually suffer from low ballast ratios - it's hard engineering wise to raise & lower the weight but the A22 manages it - and it also leaves the hull vulnerable when settling on pointy bits on the seabed.

 

[TSB240]

Delta rafted up with us on Piles was flattened by severe summer storm three years ago. It would have helped if he had secured his roller reefing as it was shredded by the time the storm had passed over. Had to replace all our stanchions and clean his red antifouling off our topsides. He had his keel raised as it would have punched a hole in ours otherwise!

I suspect that it may have over retracted which is a dangerous feature of some lift keel designs without a bulb or end plate or a means of holding it in position.

Our Trapper was based in the Medway on a drying mooring and the owner used to hold the keel in a "nearly fully raised" position as this was more stable and meant she lay at mooring better. Mud berth allowed bulb and slightly lowered keel to dry out upright.

 

[baltic]

I have micro gem 550 drying mooring in Scarborough through all last weeks gales she went up and down no bother when a high built fishing boat 3 berths away tipped over my keels all ways up as long as you check you winch wire often it won't drop incidentally in this months pbo theres a tail of a leisure bilge keeler blowing over that was 1 berth across from me and i was in then

 

[Seajet]

The Anderson 22 keel winch is made by Dutton Lainson of Nebraska, http://www.dutton-lainson.com/categories.php?cat=15a big thriving outfit; might be useful to other lift keelers ?

 

[baltic]

that seems to be the one that I have works fine

 

[Simondjuk]

We had an Evolution 25 and it was very stable with the keel fully raised. The ballast ratio is 45%, which is actually higher than the Anderson 22. Of course, some of this is negated with the keel raised but the boat also has massive form stability. On a drying pontoon mooring, we used to leave ours with the keel half raised, mainly as it kept the keel inside the box, and just let it sink into the mud. If it did find something hard, it would simply lift.

I'd be less keen on doing this on a swinging mooring due the possibility of the keel touching bottom as the boat swung, thus putting unfair lateral loads into the keel box. If I were going to leave one on a drying mooring with the keel fully raised, I might put a strop over the top of the keel to prevent it moving any further into the boat in the very unlikely event that it did get knocked down. The keel can't actually escape the box without one, but it'd be reassuring to know that the CofG can't go even slightly in the wrong direction when it matters most.

 

[Laurie]

I have had three lift keelers

no worries

raise it

you might notice a slight difference in tippiness when you stand on the side of the boat

but nothing to worry about

never heard of one rolling over in winds or waves

D

I have; though not the models mentioned in the original post

 

[PaulR]

have to confess personal interest in this - we had a delta 25 lift keel which we loved - superb to sail - kept her on drying mud mooring at Orwell Yacht Club- keel up and never felt unstable - however in the great storm of 16th october 1987 she was sunk and conclusion we reached is that at low water she was rolled onto her side by the extreme winds - and then when the tide came back in it filled her until she was semi afloat and then it appears she lifted her entire mooring and blew across the deep ship channel leading to Ipswich and gently sank (upright) at the far edge of the channel - she was succesfully lifted by divers - no structural or rig damage but linings and electrics had it - insurer gave us choice of having her repaired or taking total loss settlement and we took the money and bought another boat - last we heard Celox had been refitted by a club member (who bought the salvage from the insurer) and was still going strong - would be interested if she is still out there?

If instability on drying moorings a known issue I suspect insurers would have a view and if they prepared to insure her on a drying mooring it would suggest not a particular problem.

Certainly our experience of a liftkeel Delta would not put us off .

 

[NUTMEG]

My Mk1 Crabber has a lifting keel but also carries lots of lead in her keel. Sails on and off the wind fine (for a gaffer) and the lifting keel is just a big plate to assist upwind. Don't really notice any difference stability wise with keel up or down, although she is more responsive under motor with it down. Makes a great audible depth gauge though!

 

[sailorbaz]

I have a Boomaroo 25 which is an Aussie built Catalina 25 - I think same as a Jaguar 25 in UK. It's on a fore and aft mooring in a creek with the keel is up. Lowest low water is 4 ft and the draft is 5 ft keel down and 2'8" keel up. I've worked on the boat on the mooring in fairly strong winds and haven't felt it was unstable but the keel is 750 kg of cast iron and hangs horizontal under the boat - it's not in a stub keel.
I keep the keel up to motor out into Jervis Bay as there is a shallow sand bar. We have never touched bottom but some of the whale watching catamarans sometimes get stuck at low tide!
It is more responsive with the keel down under power though.
Sailorbaz

 

[homa]

I owned a Lifting keel hunter delta for 3 years.
A super little boat, 5' draft keel down and 1' draft keel up. very stable with keel up, i could walk round the decks and she wouldn't move.
only problem on a mooring with keel up is she lies to the wind rather than tide so you need to be in a trot of moorings with similar boats. I was on a deep water mooring and we had to keep keel & rudder down otherwise there was the possibility that she would swing very close to the next door long keel yacht.
can't think of a bad thing to say about the boat, it did exactly what i wanted of her and really well. sailed extremely well, and would match many boats bigger than her for speed and pointing ability. Very strong little boat. we only changed as we needed more room, due to growing family.
Only thing I didn't like was the keel box opened into the main cabin & with keel raised you could see/brush against the wet/dirty keel. advantage with keel down was that the top became a bench/small table and gave more space inside cabin.

 

[johnphilip]

Delta is a Belter

Im considering a lifitng keel Delta or Evolution for a swinging / drying mooring. Has anyone out there got any experience of how stable they are when the keel is raised?

We had a Hunter Delta for a few years, a delight to sail but you might well learn to sail on and off the mooring rather than remove the fairing in the bottom of the outboard locker and catch your fingers lowering the outboard into position. We had her on a drying mooring and stability on board was never an issue with the keel raised. She did tend to sheer (or is it shear?)around on her mooring whether keel up or down. We sailed to Holland with two young children so we were pretty confident of her sea keeping despite being a bit of a performance design.
I normally left a few inches of keel down so that as she dried out the cast iron keel first scraped around then sank into the mud holding her in place rather than the hull scraping over shells and stones in the mud.
She did suffer in the 1987 hurricane but I believe another yacht (a much bigger cat ) swept up and rammed her bow before they both dragged up the river. In the end she was capsized in this storm . But no structural damage, strongly built.