shmoo
Well-Known Member
The Gunshed at Levington will sell me a few links of massive big-ship anchor chain. I reckon about 3 links is as much as I could pick up, say about 20kg. Would a couple of links work as an angel?
How much should an angel weigh? (non-theological)
- Thread starter shmoo
- Start date
lw395
Well-Known Member
I am a total convert, in an atheist kind of way, I found a weight of 8kgs was very effective on a 39ft 7ton boat. I put it about 90% of the water depth from the boat, so that it was always off the bottom.
I suspect in anchoring more is often better.
I don't go for lowering the angel down the rode, just lash it on, no chafe or tangles that way.
I used some scrap lead melted into a brick-like shape, actually an aluminium camping canteen was used as a mould, giving rounded corners so less damage to deck etc.
I await the deluge of alternative opinions, but the above improved things for me!
I suspect in anchoring more is often better.
I don't go for lowering the angel down the rode, just lash it on, no chafe or tangles that way.
I used some scrap lead melted into a brick-like shape, actually an aluminium camping canteen was used as a mould, giving rounded corners so less damage to deck etc.
I await the deluge of alternative opinions, but the above improved things for me!
Boathook
Well-Known Member
As heavy as you can comfortably lift. If the boat is small it can then be used as an anchor !!
boatmike
Well-Known Member
The usual is about 50% of anchor weight.
Searush
Well-Known Member
I have a 3" chunk off an 8" diam bar with a half chain link welded to the top of it. It sits in the bilge, giving us a slight list to starboard. I can only just carry it to the bow & fasten it over my chain with a large D shackle so I can lower it down the chain after anchoring. This allows me to adjust the depth it sits at, which can be just on the bed or just off it.
Brilliant in a blow at reducing sheering & preventing snatch. Also used to reduce my swinging arc when some twazzock moors too close to me. The key benefit of deploying it independantly is that it can be weighed before the anchor so I am not attempting to handle the combined weight of both plus chain.
Brilliant in a blow at reducing sheering & preventing snatch. Also used to reduce my swinging arc when some twazzock moors too close to me. The key benefit of deploying it independantly is that it can be weighed before the anchor so I am not attempting to handle the combined weight of both plus chain.
shmoo
Well-Known Member
Thanks folks. This is all useful.
I think I will go for the "lower it down the rode" scheme since I don't have a windlass and I can only just get the chain and the anchor up now, without the extra weight of an angel! I think I will go for about 3 or 4 links of 30mm chain which I would guess will weigh about 15-18kg. Big chain is attractive to me since it's rounded and flexible enough to not take up too much room.
I think I will go for the "lower it down the rode" scheme since I don't have a windlass and I can only just get the chain and the anchor up now, without the extra weight of an angel! I think I will go for about 3 or 4 links of 30mm chain which I would guess will weigh about 15-18kg. Big chain is attractive to me since it's rounded and flexible enough to not take up too much room.
dovekie
Well-Known Member
I think "as heavy as you can comfortably handle" is correct, but he handling at the bow is awkward. Also, if you plan to lower it down the rode, there is a fair bit of friction. If the links you are getting are huge they may slide down nicely. One trick is to suspend the angel on a long line from a block on the pulpit (very theological this!), and lower it until you can attach it by whatever means to the rode. Then lower away until it hits the seabed, and pull it back up a few metres. You can then retrieve it independently of the anchor too. We made a big low-friction "saddle" to slide the angel up and down the chain (from a piece of six inch plastic gas pipe, cut, then shaped by heating to the palsticity point in the oven), works a treat.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Completely off-topic, except in a round-about way!
One of the churches I preach in has large wooden angels on the rafters, way up in the roof. A couple of months ago, one came down; I suspect mediaeval carpenters of having more faith than engineering skills! I am pretty sure it's weight would have more than satisfied those who want angels to be "as heavy as you can lift"; it was a very solid slab of oak. Given the context, we praise God that no-one was underneath it when it fell!
Of course, traditionally the weight of an angel is whatever the angel wishes it to be!
One of the churches I preach in has large wooden angels on the rafters, way up in the roof. A couple of months ago, one came down; I suspect mediaeval carpenters of having more faith than engineering skills! I am pretty sure it's weight would have more than satisfied those who want angels to be "as heavy as you can lift"; it was a very solid slab of oak. Given the context, we praise God that no-one was underneath it when it fell!
Of course, traditionally the weight of an angel is whatever the angel wishes it to be!
saltwater_gypsy
Well-Known Member
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TOP ANGEL TIP!!!!!
If you lower the anchor until it touches the sea bed and then shackle on your angel then you never have to lift both together. Alternatively you can set it all up on deck. I believe that this positioning also gives the correct catenary.
I like to call mine a CHUM anyway but maybe I'm a sad and lonely person (not!). My CHUM is about 18k and the anchor is 35k..
Others call them MESSAGERS. Any other nice names for a lump of metal???
If you lower the anchor until it touches the sea bed and then shackle on your angel then you never have to lift both together. Alternatively you can set it all up on deck. I believe that this positioning also gives the correct catenary.
I like to call mine a CHUM anyway but maybe I'm a sad and lonely person (not!). My CHUM is about 18k and the anchor is 35k..
Others call them MESSAGERS. Any other nice names for a lump of metal???
riojasailer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If you lower the anchor until it touches the sea bed and then shackle on your angel then you never have to lift both together.
[/ QUOTE ]
Only if there's no tide..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If you lower the anchor until it touches the sea bed and then shackle on your angel then you never have to lift both together.
[/ QUOTE ]
Only if there's no tide..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
TOP ANGEL TIP!!!!!
If you lower the anchor until it touches the sea bed and then shackle on your angel then you never have to lift both together. Alternatively you can set it all up on deck. I believe that this positioning also gives the correct catenary.
I like to call mine a CHUM anyway but maybe I'm a sad and lonely person (not!). My CHUM is about 18k and the anchor is 35k..
Others call them MESSAGERS. Any other nice names for a lump of metal???
[/ QUOTE ]
The word "Angel" is derived from the Greek word for a messenger, so Messenger may well be the original name, with Angel being some classically educated type's idea of a joke - it would appeal to me ! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
TOP ANGEL TIP!!!!!
If you lower the anchor until it touches the sea bed and then shackle on your angel then you never have to lift both together. Alternatively you can set it all up on deck. I believe that this positioning also gives the correct catenary.
I like to call mine a CHUM anyway but maybe I'm a sad and lonely person (not!). My CHUM is about 18k and the anchor is 35k..
Others call them MESSAGERS. Any other nice names for a lump of metal???
[/ QUOTE ]
The word "Angel" is derived from the Greek word for a messenger, so Messenger may well be the original name, with Angel being some classically educated type's idea of a joke - it would appeal to me ! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
AncoraLatina
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> The Gunshed at Levington will sell me a few links of massive big-ship anchor chain. I reckon about 3 links is as much as I could pick up, say about 20kg. Would a couple of links work as an angel? </span>
[/ QUOTE ]
First, for which purpose do you want to use an ANGEL??
- To increase the holding of your anchor
- For shock-absorbing effect on the anchoring line
- To reduce the swinging area
Reducing the swinging area will only work with light winds and you don’t need a lot of weight, 10 kg should be enough.
To procure a shock absorbing effect: - unless you use a very heavy weight, an Angel will not be very efficient. It will be both easier and more efficient to use a snubber
To increase the holding of your anchor? If you feel the need to increase the holding of you anchor, it is perhaps the right time to have a look at the “new gen” anchors?
- If you still want to keep your antic anchor, an Angel will not be efficient to increase the holding.
20 kg is the weight of 8 meters of 10 mm chain, just launch an additional 8 meters of chain; it will be both much easier and more efficient.
João
<span style="color:blue"> The Gunshed at Levington will sell me a few links of massive big-ship anchor chain. I reckon about 3 links is as much as I could pick up, say about 20kg. Would a couple of links work as an angel? </span>
[/ QUOTE ]
First, for which purpose do you want to use an ANGEL??
- To increase the holding of your anchor
- For shock-absorbing effect on the anchoring line
- To reduce the swinging area
Reducing the swinging area will only work with light winds and you don’t need a lot of weight, 10 kg should be enough.
To procure a shock absorbing effect: - unless you use a very heavy weight, an Angel will not be very efficient. It will be both easier and more efficient to use a snubber
To increase the holding of your anchor? If you feel the need to increase the holding of you anchor, it is perhaps the right time to have a look at the “new gen” anchors?
- If you still want to keep your antic anchor, an Angel will not be efficient to increase the holding.
20 kg is the weight of 8 meters of 10 mm chain, just launch an additional 8 meters of chain; it will be both much easier and more efficient.
João
RAI
Well-Known Member
Some good guy here posted this link, it's worth reading.
http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode_b.htm
http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode_b.htm
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
I sometimes use an old 5 litre paraffin container filled with sand. It seems to make a difference and means I can anchor up very narrow creeks without swinging onto the mud so much. (29' 3.5 ton boat, anchoring in shallow (up to 5m) water.)
shmoo
Well-Known Member
Richard_I thanks for really good link. They should include that stuff in YM syllabub.
craigsmith
Well-Known Member
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
(not!) being a sad and lonely person, your CHUM is probably more preferable than to call it a MATE! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OGITD
Well-Known Member
I was beginning to think I was a little light with 7 1/2 kg for a 2 ton 23' boat. But after seeing 8kg used on 39' 7 ton I think i am OK.
Used this last year & when I came to weighing anchor I could clearly see that I had been lying to the Angel and not my anchor all night.
Used this last year & when I came to weighing anchor I could clearly see that I had been lying to the Angel and not my anchor all night.
TamarMike
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I sometimes use an old 5 litre paraffin container filled with sand. It seems to make a difference and means I can anchor up very narrow creeks without swinging onto the mud so much. (29' 3.5 ton boat, anchoring in shallow (up to 5m) water.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I used to do that a lot with my old boat (3 ton 24') using a 50lb weight from the ballast. Now I have a fin keel I am a bit more nervous about grounding, also no loose ballast (at present) though I suppose I could send down the heavy kedge which is about 30 lb.
I sometimes use an old 5 litre paraffin container filled with sand. It seems to make a difference and means I can anchor up very narrow creeks without swinging onto the mud so much. (29' 3.5 ton boat, anchoring in shallow (up to 5m) water.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I used to do that a lot with my old boat (3 ton 24') using a 50lb weight from the ballast. Now I have a fin keel I am a bit more nervous about grounding, also no loose ballast (at present) though I suppose I could send down the heavy kedge which is about 30 lb.
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have a 3" chunk off an 8" diam bar with a half chain link welded to the top of it. It sits in the bilge, giving us a slight list to starboard. I can only just carry it to the bow & fasten it over my chain with a large D shackle so I can lower it down the chain after anchoring. This allows me to adjust the depth it sits at, which can be just on the bed or just off it.
[/ QUOTE ] Sounds a good idea, how do you raise and lower it?
I have a 3" chunk off an 8" diam bar with a half chain link welded to the top of it. It sits in the bilge, giving us a slight list to starboard. I can only just carry it to the bow & fasten it over my chain with a large D shackle so I can lower it down the chain after anchoring. This allows me to adjust the depth it sits at, which can be just on the bed or just off it.
[/ QUOTE ] Sounds a good idea, how do you raise and lower it?
