How much bother is switching to gaff rig?

[srm]

with the advent of the trusty Stuart turner

Really, I thought they were known as the "Stuart non-Turner".

A friend allowed me to sail his small gaff ketch. I soon learnt to sail on and off the swinging mooring singlehanded as I only saw the engine actually start and run the once. A damp magneto effectively killed the beast.

A doctor in Shetland in the 70's commented that they were the death of retired fishermen who bought a small open boat with that engine but spent too much time and effort swinging the starting handle.

The wartime operators of the "Shetland Bus" used small open boats fitted with the Stuart Turner for transporting spies and weapons in Norway, but soon discovered that the engines needed 100% watertight boxes to keep them bone dry while being carried as deck cargo across the Norwegian sea, otherwise they failed to start when needed.

 

[Wansworth]

My Stuart turner must have been a special edition…..never missed a beat?

 

[Kukri]

My late father was good with Stuart Turners. I was not, but proffer two well known bits of advice - always carry a plug spanner and a spare plug in the engine box as the only way it will start when hot is with a fresh, cold, plug, (this is in the maker’s handbook) and a condom over the magneto helps (this is not!)

 

[srm]

An interesting thread, starts with a question about converting to a gaff rig and evolves to discuss the joys or otherwise of an antique petrol engine.

 

[dancrane]

Where, except the forum, could I get such a mix of gems as these?

The variety and sheer interest that is possible and available from records, memories and plans of sailing vessels not designed largely to replicate the efficiency of racing boats, could turn my taste away from Bermudan rig forever.

The same enthusiasm for interesting imperfection could even fire up my interest in petrol inboards. ?

 

[Blueboatman]

Sir Henry Pigott is your man for junk rigging small boats
Deceased sadly but he did a lot of sailing

https://junkrigassociation.org/resources/Documents/Hall of Fame/Hall of Fame, Sir Henry Pigott.pdf

It would be possibly the least expensive sail conversion and , aside from beating into a lumpy sea, the rig simply makes a boat fly and without fuss . IME

You could easily get enough sail area and without bowsprits nor bumpkins nor top hamper ..

 

[Kukri]

Where, except the forum, could I get such a mix of gems as these?

The variety and sheer interest that is possible and available from records, memories and plans of sailing vessels not designed largely to replicate the efficiency of racing boats, could turn my taste away from Bermudan rig forever.

The same enthusiasm for interesting imperfection could even fire up my interest in petrol inboards. ?

I find that a Seagull satisfies my urge to tinker with vintage petrol engines, but if you must have a petrol inboard, don’t fit an electric starter. If you have to cuddle up to the engine to start it, you are more likely to smell a petrol leak before it kills you.

 

[Wansworth]

I seem to recall a photo of a square rigged mirror dinghy…..that functioned?

 

[dancrane]

Junk-rigged Mirror, too.

My taste for the unusual could be satisfied very inexpensively.

 

[Kukri]

A friend’s snap of Xiamen harbour in the Seventies.

If the whole boat is teak, why paint her!

Note the children have life jackets.

The island just visible on the horizon is Kinmen which is part of Taiwan and is considered the “trip wire…”

 

[Wansworth]

I wonder who was sailing it,surely fishermen could not afford life jackets or even bothered like Galician fishermen,maybe an executive from a European company trying out the remains of a bygon era

 

[Kukri]

I wonder who was sailing it,surely fishermen could not afford life jackets or even bothered like Galician fishermen,maybe an executive from a European company trying out the remains of a bygon era

Friend who took it was serving on a John Swire and Sons ship as chief officer at the time. Our ships did sometimes call at PRC ports, even then.

 

[dancrane]

Restrain your sniggers at my first stab at a plan, if you please...

I haven't looked hard at junk rig or possible multiple masts; and I only traced the shape of the hull and superstructure (from a photograph) so there's likely to be difference between actual measurements, and those I've drawn.

But on the 18ft hull, the standard 150sq ft Bermudan rig (whose masthead is where I've marked in blue) could have a 240sq ft gaff rig, even without a staysail.

As I said much earlier, I recognise the effect that significantly increasing sail area may have on the stiffness of a small shallow-draught boat.

What I'd like to know, is does it look woefully unbalanced, given that I haven't moved the mast-step?

 

[Kukri]

Get out your copy of Harrison Butler’s book and find the centre of effort of the sail plan and the centre of lateral resistance and give her an 8% lead.

The reason for the staysail is simply that it’s better to have a forestay to the stem head so if you break the bowsprit you don’t lose the mast.

With a keel stepped mast you probably won’t need backstays.

The boat in post #19 is 18ft LOA ( HB “Paida” design).

 

[DownWest]

At a guess, you are looking at 100% more sail? Could be a problem on an 18ft. Re the heeling moment, it seems that 1/3 of it is over the original area, rather than lowering the center of effort. Bit of caution...

 

[DownWest]

A friend’s snap of Xiamen harbour in the Seventies. View attachment 142758

If the whole boat is teak, why paint her!

Note the children have life jackets.

The island just visible on the horizon is Kinmen which is part of Taiwan and is considered the “trip wire…”

We have a model of a a Chinese War Junk in the hall. Bought in the 20's by my wife's G'Father, when in the USN on the 'China Station'. It was already old then.The sails are quietly rotting, but still there. Three masted, with a lot of cannons, masts are stayed with lots of dead eyes and other lashings. I will put a wet towel round my head tomorrow and see if I can get the photo thingy to work.

 

[srm]

As I said much earlier, I recognise the effect that significantly increasing sail area may have on the stiffness of a small shallow-draught boat.

What I'd like to know, is does it look woefully unbalanced, given that I haven't moved the mast-step?

It does not look woefully unbalanced to me but I do not know your underwater profile.

I agree with @Kukri, the sketch needs refining with centre of lateral resistance for the underwater hull profile and centre of effort of the sails. By eye it looks as if you have moved the centre of effort aft compared with a bermudan rig, but it needs drawing to scale to be certain.

I would also think of using two headsails with a stay to the stem head as otherwise your mast is reliant on the bowsprit for its forward support. The jib could then be set flying and running on the bowsprit enabling you to move its tack fore and aft giving more control over the sail balance, at least initially until you found the best setting.

If the main's centre of effort is too far aft you may be able to adjust it and keep the sail area at this stage by raising the peak of the gaff. Taken to extreme you could have a gunter rig with a near vertical gaff. The advantage of the gunter rig is that the gaff is lowered as you reef thereby lowering the centre of gravity of the rig.

 

[OldBawley]

At the end of this clip you see a lot of little boats with extensions above the mainsail to make a bermudian into a gaff.

A few light spars, a sail and some ingenious ropes can fill the gap between bermudian and gaff.

That is, in light winds. You can hoist before or behind the main.

 

[Rum Run]

Some bloke called Connor O'Brien, who had sailed a few miles apparently, thought that the ideal rig was a big engine for upwind work and a squaresail on a yard for everything else. That would save on complicated sail cutting anyway.

edited to remove extraneous part of his name, which confused him with another famous Irishman

 

[Kukri]

Some bloke called Connor Cruise O'Brien, who had sailed a few miles apparently, thought that the ideal rig was a big engine for upwind work and a squaresail on a yard for everything else. That would save on complicated sail cutting anyway.

Nice article by WM Nixon here:

Ireland’s Pioneering World-Girdler Saoirse Will Sail Again