How much bother is switching to gaff rig?

[dancrane]

An idle, end-of-season question. I asked something similar before, but I can't recall when, or what the answer was.

I'm in a position to buy a small motorsailer (I'd rather not be drawn on which specifically) but the ones that fit my bill have rigs I wouldn't be proud to own.

They're stunted, probably because the designer expected owners to take token interest in sail trim, and to switch to engine during challenging weather.

The simple Bermudan masthead rig is like a half-size version of that on many cruising yachts, which are reasonably anticipated to be sailed to windward...

...but aboard the motorsailer, the tiny Bermudan rig doesn't bring upwind performance, because the hull and superstructure are so aerodynamically inefficient.

My plan would only be to make the boat sail powerfully when the wind is favourable, accepting that she cannot (and shouldn't be forced to) sail upwind. I'd be converting her from a lazily designed and fitted attempt at a motorsailer, to a proper fifty-fifty.

To that end, I'm thinking the tiny mainsail could be replaced by a gaff main, of significantly greater area (and boom-length), but no extra height. This (I'm assuming) would be better than a taller Bermudan rig which would heel much more without making the vessel better to windward.

I wasn't proposing to rig a gaff mainsail on the existing mast.

Could the extra sail area aft be balanced by a staysail and good-sized yankee on a long bowsprit, or would the mast have to be stepped further forward?

I daresay the steering balance would be wrong at the first attempt. Would dropping hard upwind use from the plan, make this less of a problem?

I'd be ready for plenty of trial and adjustment while enjoying the boat's equally valid use under engine.

Having created an unusual looking vessel (but not so laughable as with her standard rig), just how much bother would a gaff main be, in place of a stumpy Bermudan? I'm assuming the main issue is the running backstays.

Before anybody makes the obvious warning, I realise increasing any boat's sail-plan outside its design requires close attention and ready reaction to conditions, and reefing ahead of time. But many small motorsailers have rigs so tiny, they're only fit for mounting radar on. I'd like to explore whether the sail-plan provided is all the vessel can take, or just aimed at lazy crews.

 

[Wansworth]

A small motor boat would probably most benefit from sail off the wind to that end I suggest a mast mounted on the stearn with abumkin then a foresail set from mast head to the stem head,this will give you off wind sail power

 

[dancrane]

That sounds interesting, and certainly wasn't what I had considered, or even imagined. I'm not sure I entirely understand the rig.

Are you thinking (effectively) of each mast carrying a foresail, avoiding any boomed sail at all?

Or just a single mast mounted on the stern? Isn't that a very unstable prospect, in terms of steering balance?

 

[OldBawley]

Our boat was build in 1945 as a Bawley with a big boomless gaff main. The first owners / builders designers ware not happy with the steering and they cut the main so it was shorter, and put a yawl sail behind it. That way the steering problem was solved.

In de 70 s the boat was sunk in a river, later lifted and donated to the yard who salvaged the boat. The boat yard was specialised in wooden barges, had not a lot of nautical architectural knowledge.

They restaured the yacht, but added 2 tons to the keel and put a short bermudian mast on the yacht.

The boat sailed well with lots of wind, was underpowered in light winds, so the original 8hp engine was replaced by a Perkins 4108.

I sailed the boat to the Med and wanted more sail. I don’t usually sail in strong winds, I like moderate.

So I thought about a gaff rig again. Costly. I then thought about a wishbone sail on the main mast. Still difficult and expensive. I then doubled the size of the yawl by making the sail a lugg. Then added 3 feet to the 7 feet bowsprit and experimented with a top down gennaker from the end of the bowsprit to halfway the length of the hull. Now our boat sails in light winds.

 

[Wansworth]

That sounds interesting, and certainly wasn't what I had considered, or even imagined. I'm not sure I entirely understand the rig.

Are you thinking (effectively) of each mast carrying a foresail, avoiding any boomed sail at all?

Or just a single mast mounted on the stern? Isn't that a very unstable prospect, in terms of steering balance?

Just a single mast

 

[Wansworth]

You could add a mizzenmast act as steadying sail under motor or set when fishing

 

[wombat88]

Somewhere I have seen a Hardy motorsailor with a gaff main, also a junk rigged Swin Ranger ketch. Both are food for thought.

At the time I was a fan of the Cox Master Mariner. In the end I never got one.

 

[dancrane]

Lots to think about already, thank you. I realise that I've effectively asked two questions here...

...covering not just the practicality and appeal of the characteristics of gaff rig, as an alternative to the usual dull choice of Bermudan...

...but I get a strong sense that freeing oneself from the primary necessity to make progress upwind, allows very interesting variations.

 

[Minerva]

If I were you, instead of adding a gaff rig, I'd be thinking along the lines of a Junk Rig. Firstly there is reams written online and user guides for folk adapting their boat too Junk rig so it should be easier* to make the change.

Secondly, for sailing off the wind, the junk performs admirably, plus can be set, reefed and dowsed from the cockpit (perhaps even from the wheelhouse for some winter sailing!!)

You should do it and YouTube it - an ordinary bloke converting a hardy 18 (or similar) to junk rig then going all Dylan Winter in your escapades would be nice Winter, Sunday evening viewing. You may make less revenue than a 20something lass sailing in the Tropics wearing a bikini mind you!

*relatively speaking.

 

[dancrane]

Junk rig...another one I hadn't even begun to consider, and there's a good lot going for it.

Does a junk mast have to be wholly unstayed? That would seem to be more bother to compensate for, than any other aspect.

I remind contributors that this is idle speculation (not that I haven't spent lots of shed-time off the back of such ideas previously. )

 

[srm]

If you can find a copy the book "Gaff Rig" by John Leather, first published 1970, it might give you some ideas.

I would suggest keeping the mast where it is as that is where the designer/builder presumably strengthened the structure to take it. Then add a bowsprit and jib to balance the sail area.

 

[wombat88]

Junk rig...another one I hadn't even begun to consider, and there's a good lot going for it.

Does a junk mast have to be wholly unstayed? That would seem to be more bother to compensate for, than any other aspect.

I remind contributors that this is idle speculation (not that I haven't spent lots of shed-time off the back of such ideas previously. )

Google the Swin Ranger and some of the Newbridge Navigator type boats for pics of junk rigs.

 

[srm]

I think you will find that for junk rig a single mast will have to be well forward. Normally unstayed it will have to be keel stepped with strong support at deck level. However, I have seen pics of some 'hybrid' junks with mast further aft and a headsail.

A good book for designing a junk rig is: "Practical Junk Rig" by Hasler and McLeod, first published 1998. It takes the reader step by step through design and building of the rig. However, some aspects of sail design have moved on since it was written.

 

[dancrane]

Thanks again for all the replies.

I'll have a doodle over the weekend and show my impressions here...and judge from your responses, which might be most rewarding.

I just ordered a copy of John Leather's Gaff Rig.

 

[dunedin]

Unless you can find second hand a suitable bigger rig - mast, sails, standing and running rigging - it would likely to be completely uneconomic to put a different rig on an old boat.
Like the myth of buying a “cheap” project yacht, you would be better starting by buying something that already comes with a rIg that is fit for purpose.
And finding a suitable second hand gaff rig is much less likely than a bigger Bermuda rig.

 

[LittleSister]

Many years ago I used to sail on friend's big junk rigged schooner. The junk rig was great for our sort of sailing (apart from the miles of rope in the cockpit).

The ferro hull had been serious over built, so what would anyway have been a heavy boat was, er, proper heavy, and hence the rig (designed to match the perhaps over-optimistic design hull weight) was under-sized - we didn't get going until it was a good 4 or 5, and as we tended not to go out if 6 or more was forecast. . . (Though we did get more relaxed about this over the years, and having been caught out in stronger winds on long distance trips without problems had become more blasé).

Hence we improvised. In light winds, and when racing (!), we would rig a 'water-sail' - rigged outboard and under the boom, just hanging down and loosely sheeted back to an aft stanchion. It was an old cast off-sail from a dinghy or small yacht.

We contrived a long bowsprit out of some scrap wood. It was 'retractable', or perhaps more accurately demountable, Heath-Robinson style. I can't remember the details but I think we built a strong fitting on the foredeck for the inboard end to be trapped under, the middle of the sprit was lashed to the bow fitting, and we had rope side stays for the end of it taken from the substantial stanchions. The fact the boat was not at all glamour yachty - more work-boat aesthetic - meant such things didn't look out of place, and that the hull deck and superstructure were immensely strong reinforced concrete meant there weren't problems finding something/somewhere strong enough to mount things onto. From the end of the bowsprit we ran a halyard via the top of the (also immensely heavy and strong) unstayed foremast, and flew a foresail, again an old cast off from some other boat.

I can't remember whether it was before or after the bowsprit that we 'installed' a yawl type mizzen-mast (a broken wooden dinghy mast?) on the transom (together with a bumpkin, I can't recall). This had a gaff rigged small mizzen sail, again of dubious provenance. The boat was even without it rather heavy on the helm, but as it wasn't needed and doused in brisker winds this didn't much matter. Our mizzen was (almost) central, but a small mizzen could happily go on one quarter or the other if need be to avoid the tiller/rudder and any more elaborate mounting arrangement. If the sail is small (yawl relative proportions) it won't make much odds to the performance, and could add an interesting asymmetric dimension to the appearance and sail arrangement/performance on different tacks.

Of course, messing about with all the above was entertainment for a few of us, and wouldn't have been practical when single or short-handed.

Definitely proper old-style PBO sailing, rather than 'yachting', and I don't know if I'll get in trouble for mentioning such outrages on the "Classic and Wooden Boats' forum!

 

[DownWest]

On the cost of sails, a used main for a bigger boat could be cut down for a gaff. If only used off the wind, the difference in cut would matter less. Lots of gaffers don't have running backstays, just the shrouds are set far enough back to cope. There is a jib up for free on the 'for sale' section...
If you know the underwater profile of the boat, you could do a paper cut out balanced on a rule to get a rough idea of the center of lateral resistance and put your center of sail area(s) about 10% ahead of it. Again, less critical if not close winded.
One thing and it was mentioned last time, is the size of your rudder. Typically, mobos have smaller ones. If the classic flat metal plate, not too difficult to add a bit.
Rigging: Doesn't have to be SS, galvanized with Talurit swages would do as well or, if brave, hand splice the ends . The Complete Rigger's Apprentice, by the late Brion Toss is a useful read, even just as fun. Mast? A trip round a few boat yards would likely find a used/damaged one that could be cut down. I am currently building a 7mtr keel stepped free standing one. The Oregon Pine cost about £100. Three laminates with a hole up the middle for cables.

 

[Wansworth]

The original rig of my Macwester kelpie was bermudian sloop but for some reason I got into my head that a ketch rig would be appropriate so ought a second hand mainsail and created a mizzenmast and a loose footed main sail.on arriving at the Hamble from Chichester the madness of the idea dawned on me so whilst at anchour I reverted to the normal bermudian rig and dumped the yawlrig once ashore in the wheelebin

 

[Kukri]

Back in 1977 my father and I re-rigged a little Harrison Butler sloop as a gaff cutter and she has been that way ever since and is still going strong.

Advice from my father and from Gerald Dennis at Taylor’s sail loft in Maldon was taken and included the advice that an amateur usually draws too small a sail plan.

 

[Wansworth]

Amateur seamen didn’t have to make sailing pay un like the pros who livingdepended on going as fast as possible.Theweekend sailer with the advent of the trusty Stuart turner could cruise under reduced sail area.David Hillyard after the war designed and built a yacht that set a safe amount of sail and had an engine to make up the difference .It was the begining of more convenient sailing .