Route planning, Solent to the Clyde

[Suzi B]

I've done this trip single handed both ways several times, so all day sailing.
Solent to Portland anchored inside the big breakwater. A short sail, mainly because I find it hard to leave Chichester early enough.
Round the Bill inside passage, need to be careful about the tides.
Portland to Plymouth, anchored off Jennycliff beach.
On to Newlyn/Penzance, anchored off the beach just west off Penzance Harbour.
Then on to Milford Haven, this is a long day, I've set off at 04:00 and not got to Melford Haven until after midnight. Anchored off Chaple Bay, south of the Channel. In 5m of water or less with a thick muddy bottom and good holding.
Then through Jack Sound and the Ramsay Sound, both critical tidal gates to Fishguard.
Anchored close to the shore off a small river, with a very obvious valley.
On to Abersoch, anchored off the old Lifeboat slip as close in as you can get.
Then through Bardsey Island Sound, another tidal gate to Holyhead. Picked up a sailing club mooring. You also need to be careful of the tides approaching Holyhead.
Then up the east side of the IOM to the Mull of Galloway, anchored inside the the bay, to the NW of the light house.
Next stop Sanda Island, Mull of Kintyre.
Then I guess your in home water.
With crew able to take watches, you may be able to do longer days than this old sailor (78 now).
But unless you are luck with the tides, you probably have delay departure to hit slack water, which adds quite a lot of time.
I hope this helps.

Thank you - this is really helpful!!

 

[Suzi B]

Sounds like a the OP should consider taking a delivery skipper or other experienced person to help expand their horizons of what is possible. Could be a long job otherwise.

It may be the quickest and most sensible thing to do but while we'd like to get there in reasonable time it's as much about getting to know the new boat as it is about arriving quickly. It's definitely not a delivery, just a desire to get some sailing on the west coast of Scotland while it's at it's best, and then see where we go from there. If we want to go north it's best not to set off too late in the season. The plan is to live aboard at least part of the year so it's the start of a journey rather than a 'job'...

 

[Suzi B]

Some friends of ours sailing Polaris of Helvetia left Haslar and ended up in Largs and have posted a number of utube vids. I’m sure many others have done likewise so if looking for general advice on stop offs their site might be worth a look plus of course Concerto in his westerly who I had pleasure of meeting at Soton boat show . If you pm him he might be able to give suggestions but he has also filmed his progress which might be of use, in June I would do Portsmouth Lymington,next day to Portland then to Brixham and thereafter on to Dartmouth . Next legs rather depend on appetite really but Plymouth mayflower say . Rather depends on one weather and need for rest etc. don’t push too hard though in a new boat I suggest.

Thanks! I'll have a look I did check out some youtube videos but they mostly seemed to be about people on holiday taking their time and staying in marinas. I admit though that I didn't spend much time looking. And yes, we need to make sure everything's working well on the boat and that we're familiar with it before attempting anything too full on.

 

[ridgy]

It may be the quickest and most sensible thing to do but while we'd like to get there in reasonable time it's as much about getting to know the new boat as it is about arriving quickly. It's definitely not a delivery, just a desire to get some sailing on the west coast of Scotland while it's at it's best, and then see where we go from there. If we want to go north it's best not to set off too late in the season. The plan is to live aboard at least part of the year so it's the start of a journey rather than a 'job'...

Very understandable but sometimes weather windows come in short doses and without the ability to make progress overnight they can be missed. Getting comfortable overnight before or during this trip would be a huge help.

 

[Suzi B]

Very understandable but sometimes weather windows come in short doses and without the ability to make progress overnight they can be missed. Getting comfortable overnight before or during this trip would be a huge help.

Sure. It's not the overnight sailing that's the problem so we can certainly do that if necessary. What we don't want to do though is sail constantly for days on end as the less experienced crew member isn't ready to take a watch on their own and so we need sleeping time for the skipper!

 

[KompetentKrew]

IMO it's chiefly dependent on the crew. You can leave the buoys at Yarmouth at dawn and arrive in Dartmouth around sunset. But so what? You can leave Yarmouth at midday and sail through the night - what kind of sailing does the crew enjoy or tolerate?

Singlehanded, I put the sails up and put the kettle on, then I take a look in the book and preliminarily ponder some potential destinations. It's even easier to be flexible about where you stop when you have someone else to keep an eye out whilst you take 6 or 8 hours' sleep. (Assuming good autopilot, I suppose.)

Load up with tinned chilli con carne and maybe stop in Ireland.

 

[Skylark]

Sure. It's not the overnight sailing that's the problem so we can certainly do that if necessary. What we don't want to do though is sail constantly for days on end as the less experienced crew member isn't ready to take a watch on their own and so we need sleeping time for the skipper!

That sounds perfectly reasonable.

It’s not a difficult journey to plan. Between the Solent and the Clyde, there are many ports “a tide away”. Probably, the longest leg is likely to be rounding Lands End. Newlyn to Milford Haven is common.

My advice would be to buy the Charts, Tidal Atlases, Pilot Books and an Almanac. The skipper is responsible for the vessel and its crew so he/she should do the plan to assure him/herself that it’s appropriate. SOLAS provides guidance as it tells us that all vessels putting to sea must have a passage plan.

There are a few, interesting tidal gates that you must get right but doing so is part of the pleasure, enjoyment and satisfaction of sailing UK waters.

Fair winds.

 

[Halo]

To do the trip in daylight you have about 18 h a day in summer. You could use the tides and rest when it’s adverse. I would consider
Falmouth
Padstow
Ilfracombe
Skomer or Dale
Fishguard
Aberystwyth
Abersoch
Caenarfon
Beaumaris
IOM
Bangor N I

If it’s strong W forecast to arrive then go Dale to Kilmore,Arklow,Greystones,Howth,Bangor
Etc

You will need suitable winds to anchor and get into these places and need to plan your timings if you go through Menai. You will need to get into some marinas to fuel and provision
Enjoy the trip

 

[Halo]

Should also have mentioned Lundy. You can anchor near the SE corner. It needs to be extremely settled to use Jennys cove on WSide. Lundy nicely breaks Padstow to Dale trip

 

[Halo]

Also Holyhead. The yacht club has great moorings

 

[GHA]

This might come in handy if not mentioned already >
Track your boat and share information on places to visit

Also the paid version of windy.com has route planning which might be useful beforehand & will give a hint of what wind you might get closer to leaving.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thanks so much for all the replies - this is all really helpful.

In an ideal world we'd just go for it and do longer sails but given that the boat's new to us and only one of us is experienced (and even then with more crewing experience than skippering) we'd rather not sail through the night unless we have to. Also, while we'd like to get there fairly quickly we're not going to be stuck to a particularl deadline so if it takes us a bit longer it's not the end of the world.
Taking on a delivery skipper would be out of the question financially but also the trip will be a chance to get to know the boat.

There really isn't any problem of sailing in the night and in any case in the summer the night hours are short, as skipper you can doze off watch and make it clear to your crew to call you if anything DIFFERENT is occurring, yes you will be a little weary at the end if you are not used to it but a day to recover with an easy sail and a good dinner will put it behind you. In my scenario there is only one real full night off shore and that is the lag from Scillies to Ireland which is not complicated.
The other point of the route is that whilst it offers plenty of scope for anchoring at every stage there are good safe marinas or harbours within a few hours to take refuge in.

 

[Concerto]

Not knowing the size of boat makes planning a little difficult. Assuming it is 35 to 40ft, then I would suggest the following, which will all allow anchoring or mooring buoy every night. The long summer days should mean sailing 12 to 16 hours is very possible. This planning is partly from experience and partly using the Cruising Association's CAptains Mate information. The only deviation you may need to make is to pick up any diesel if you motor a lot due to light winds.

Solent to Portland Harbour
Portland to Torbay
Torbay to Mousehole near Newlyn
Mousehole to River Camal near Padstow
Padstow to Dale, Milford Haven
Dale to Abersoch
Abersoch to Carlingford Lough, NI - Greencastle anchorage
Carlingford to Red Bay near Glenariff NI
Red Bay to the Clyde

As previously mentioned, I have sailed singlehanded round Britain in my 32ft Westerly Fulmar, but in the opposite direction. This was written up on the forum at the time and later a series of videos is now on YouTube. You can find all of them on my About Me page on this forum via the link in my signature.

 

[Suzi B]

That sounds perfectly reasonable.

It’s not a difficult journey to plan. Between the Solent and the Clyde, there are many ports “a tide away”. Probably, the longest leg is likely to be rounding Lands End. Newlyn to Milford Haven is common.

My advice would be to buy the Charts, Tidal Atlases, Pilot Books and an Almanac. The skipper is responsible for the vessel and its crew so he/she should do the plan to assure him/herself that it’s appropriate. SOLAS provides guidance as it tells us that all vessels putting to sea must have a passage plan.

There are a few, interesting tidal gates that you must get right but doing so is part of the pleasure, enjoyment and satisfaction of sailing UK waters.

Fair winds.

Thanks. Yes, the skipper will have ultimate responsibility but there's a lot to do to get the boat ready so I'm trying to do as much advance planning as possible to keep stress in that respect to a minimum for both of us. Also it's me who's taken responsibility for buying and getting to know the nav gear etc. As a sea kayaker I do have prior experience of route planning involving tides etc (and when you're under your own steam only it's crucial to get it right!) and when we've sailed together in our previous boat we would discuss options together.

The plan is for us to both eventually be fully competent at everything so that we can take turns in skippering but for now we're playing to strengths. I'm a bit better with things like buoyage, operating the nav gear and the radio, and have been servicing and getting to know the engine while my partner is great at boat handling, trimming the sails, reading the wind and weather and is generally far more practical and competent in all those things, big and small, that come up and great at finding solutions to problems. He's not familiar with sailing this boat though and it's quite different from the one we owned previously (and not for very long).

I've never planned such a long route before so I want to get my head round the big, important legs and the rest I want to be familiar with but it can fall into place depending on weather etc.

 

[Suzi B]

To do the trip in daylight you have about 18 h a day in summer. You could use the tides and rest when it’s adverse. I would consider
Falmouth
Padstow
Ilfracombe
Skomer or Dale
Fishguard
Aberystwyth
Abersoch
Caenarfon
Beaumaris
IOM
Bangor N I

If it’s strong W forecast to arrive then go Dale to Kilmore,Arklow,Greystones,Howth,Bangor
Etc

You will need suitable winds to anchor and get into these places and need to plan your timings if you go through Menai. You will need to get into some marinas to fuel and provision
Enjoy the trip

That's really helpful - thanks so much. And it's true, I need to think about places we can refuel. We will only use the engine when necessary - we prefer to sail unless we're all but stopped or if we need to engine to avoid problems - but although we'll have spare fuel it may not be enough. Thanks for reminding me of that important detail!! Food will be fine - we'll have enough in case we don't stop and the watermaker means we don't have to worry about taking on water.

 

[Suzi B]

This might come in handy if not mentioned already >
Track your boat and share information on places to visit

Also the paid version of windy.com has route planning which might be useful beforehand & will give a hint of what wind you might get closer to leaving.

Thank you! I'd had a good look at Navily but didn't know about this site - that's great. Also about windy - the free version is so useful I never considered the paid version.

 

[Suzi B]

Not knowing the size of boat makes planning a little difficult. Assuming it is 35 to 40ft, then I would suggest the following, which will all allow anchoring or mooring buoy every night. The long summer days should mean sailing 12 to 16 hours is very possible. This planning is partly from experience and partly using the Cruising Association's CAptains Mate information. The only deviation you may need to make is to pick up any diesel if you motor a lot due to light winds.

Solent to Portland Harbour
Portland to Torbay
Torbay to Mousehole near Newlyn
Mousehole to River Camal near Padstow
Padstow to Dale, Milford Haven
Dale to Abersoch
Abersoch to Carlingford Lough, NI - Greencastle anchorage
Carlingford to Red Bay near Glenariff NI
Red Bay to the Clyde

As previously mentioned, I have sailed singlehanded round Britain in my 32ft Westerly Fulmar, but in the opposite direction. This was written up on the forum at the time and later a series of videos is now on YouTube. You can find all of them on my About Me page on this forum via the link in my signature.

Thanks so much for this and I'll have a look at your videos.

 

[steve yates]

Thanks so much for all the replies - this is all really helpful.

In an ideal world we'd just go for it and do longer sails but given that the boat's new to us and only one of us is experienced (and even then with more crewing experience than skippering) we'd rather not sail through the night unless we have to. Also, while we'd like to get there fairly quickly we're not going to be stuck to a particularl deadline so if it takes us a bit longer it's not the end of the world.
Taking on a delivery skipper would be out of the question financially but also the trip will be a chance to get to know the boat.

Very sensible approach. Take your time, get to know your boat and enjoy the trip. It will be a blast.

Need to work with tides and weather but if anchoring I would be looking at something like this, to be sitting set up nearby each tidal gate from your anchorage.

1) Solent to swanage
2) Swanage to weymouth
( going alongside a long pontoon is ok as its not going into a marina as such or just anchor out in weymouth bay if the wind serves.)
You could even get this in one day if you were lucky with tide times and weather but two will be comfortable.

3) Your then close for picking your ideal time to round portland bill, and onto Dartmouth or thereabouts. (Tidal gate/ overfalls at the Bill.)
4) Next round start point (overfalls) and head for something like the yealm or fowey, even coverack cove it that works, bt would be a big day.
5) Round the the lizard to penzance, (overfalls off the lizard) you could anchor in mount bay or dry out against the outer wall at penzance.
6) Your in position for lands end next, (to get to milford haven from here is a full 24 hrs or more so you need a weather window that works for breaking this section up) round that and anchor off St Ives. (overfalls at lands end)
7) Head for Padstow
8) Long day to Dale/Milford Haven

You need to be very careful of the weather and swell on that north cornish coast and wait for your weather window. St ives is a settled weather anchorage and padstow is time limited for entry by tides with a bar on the river.
If you got a good week here, it would be lovely, but actually I would strongly advise you try and time rounding lands end in the evening and getting a night sail experience by going straight for Dale at Milford Haven. Its open sea, not much to hit and gets one of the most dangerous passages over and done with in weather of your choice.
It will be daylight again before you reach the welsh coast and as there is two of you, you can get sleep at night as the crew only has to keep their eyes open.
If the wind suits you could anchor in south skomer instead of dale, youd be tangling with much less traffic after a tiring 24hrs.
If the times and weather were kind you could go straight to fishguard from here.

9) Dale to Solva via Skomer (tidal gate in jacks sound)
10) Solva to Fishguard. (tidal gate in ramsey sound, overfalls off strumble head)
11) Fishguard to Pwhelli
12) Phwelli to Porth Dinllaen (tidal gate at bardsey sound) Great pub on beach, an easy row from anchorage in Porth Dinllaen.
Again, if tide times and weather worked for you, you may be able to go straight from fishguard to porth dinllaen.
13) Porth Dinaellen to Holyhead Harbour anchorage. (overfalls at south and north stacks)
14) Holyhead to Port Erin, Isle of Man. (overfalls off calf of man)
15) Port St Erin to Donaghadee
16) Donaghadee to Sanda Island
17) Sanda Island to Largs.

Obviously it will all change once you get doing depending on weather/tides/times etc but it shows your looking at a minimum of two weeks mainly day sailing if everything turned out perfect for you, which just wont happen.
So realistically, I would expect this to take around a month to include sitting around waiting for weather or just plain having some rest days.

If you only intend to anchor, you need to make sure you are well supplied as well.

Good luck, write it up here when you have done it and let us know where you went in the end and how it was.

 

[Kwik Decision]

We did what you are wanting to do, setting off mid May, at the beginning of our round Britain (OK, round England, Wales and the southern half of Scotland) trip a few years ago. The plan was to get up to the Clyde as quickly as possible; we had a fortnight before we had to be home for a week's work. We'd then go back and have time to explore the West coast of Scotland for a month before going through the canal. In the end, this first leg took 12 days, and we only got as far as Holyhead. The route was:

Hamble to Weymouth
Weymouth to Dartmouth
Dartmouth to Plymouth
2 days in Plymouth, as a storm blew through
Plymouth to Coverack (anchorage W side of the Lizard - have family there)
Coverack to St Ives (anchored outside)
St Ives to Dale (Milford Haven) - 90 NM, the longest day we did, and had a lot of fog...
Day in Milford Haven stocking up, and back to Dale
Dale to Fishguard (anchored)
Fishguard to Abersoch (anchored)
Abersoch to Holyhead

This was on a Sadler 29, 2 up, (with a correctly sized Rocna!)

Points to note are that we lost a couple of days to bad weather, and another day in Milford Haven, as we knackered (and needed supplies).

When we went back and re-started the trip, we spent a further 5 days getting to Troon, but did have a couple of days on the Isle of Man.

We've been discussing taking the boat back up to Scotland for a season - if we do, it will be with 3 experienced sailors on board, and be done in a couple of long legs over a week, weather permitting.

 

[Wansworth]

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