How long before paper charts are gone forever?

[iangrant]

Wet towel and slide rule have been banished from the flight decks of BA aircraft. Having spent a day at Heathrow's flight simulator, the pilots plumb in the start point (the pad the aircraft is on) where they are going, Hong Kong etc.. and the in flight computer does the rest. Paper charts - no sign of. So how long before the dear old paper chart be gone from the sea? An old soap gleefully said to me aahah but what when your little GPS fails then what, ha? - er. I got a spare.
Then in fog, I certainly wouldn't rely on my tidal/drift/speed/last fix calculations in favour of the box which has proven to be accurate to about 10 metres. To be very honest and with the greatest respect for the professional navigators, how many of us "hobby" sailors get enough practice with bobbing about chart work to stay current?

Any thoughts?
Ian

 

[paulineb]

What would happen if the American Government turned off their satellites ?

Pauline B

 

[billmacfarlane]

Every professional craft that is reliant on it will be in trouble, putting in perspective the usage of it for people like us who use it as part of a leisure pastime.

 

[alanhanson]

since april i have not looked at my paper charts, i have a full set on laptop as well as on c.map.
if gps is turned of i will instantly resort to the traditional ways.
but i cannot see any use in making work for myself unless needed.
even without the gps i do not particularly need paper charts .
i have two electronic sets & because of work 2 lap tops .
all the instruments feed through to the laptop but if it went dead i can instantly resort to the traditional methods.

 

[Guest]

I'll ask the obvious question: how will you know where you are on your paper charts?

 

[robp]

It's extremely unlikely. Probably more chance of getting caught in a really bad storm. So much is now riding on it.

 

[alanhanson]

i update my log just the same .
if all systems fail i would work from the info i had at hand before failure .
just the same as if i had been using paper & all systems fail

 

[Guest]

Personally, I have connected my GPS to my Navtex (ICS paper printing version) so that my position, course and speed is printed out on paper automatically every 15 minutes.

Doesn't help though if the GPS was giving a false reading.

The bigger problem perhaps is misreading the GPS display. If you do dead reckoning then errors become obvious.

I have to admit that last year I got very lazy somewhere mid-North Sea and was plotting positions solely from GPS. When transferring from one chart to another I wrote down the new position taken from the GPS. Unfortunately, being very tired, I misread the position by one degree and plotted the position 60 miles out! It took an hour before I realised my (stupid) mistake (on a fairly featureless chart - my only excuse)!

Moral: (i) when transferring positions from one chart to the next use distance and bearing from a known object; (ii) if I had been using dead reckoning it would have shown the mistake straight away; (iii) it's terribly easy to misread a GPS display to read what you want it to rather than what it is.

 

[Guest]

Frankly, this is scary. I'm a gadget junkie, and new to cruising, but I rely on paper. I have a dGPS plotter, but use it only to confirm where I thought I was on paper. On a run, I plot positions on the table using chinagraph every 20-30 mins, so if the electronics dies, I know where I'm starting from with DR.

 

[Guest]

GPS has been turned off several times by the U.S.

not only during Desert Storm. Apparently it was on short days only recently.

Peter and I may be gadget freaks, but we always maintain our position log on paper charts. I've gone through three computers and four printers in our fifteen years cruising, always when least expected. The salt water environment is pretty unfriendly to gear (our old Loran and SatNavs were much less reliable than our GPS, but I still wouldn't want to rely on them completely).

In 1998, on the East coast of peninsular Malaysia, just on the Thailand boarder, we were hit by lightning, and most of our electronics were fried. (for details, http://www.cruiser.co.za/hostmelon.asp Lightning strike). Although we had GPS, we had little else. Having good detailed paper charts reduced our anxiety level as we made our way back to Singapore.

As I natter on, I hope I am making it clear that it is perhaps a bit optimistic to rely on any one navigation aid. Given all the things that can go wrong (frying BOTH alternators, losing an engine, running out of fuel, lightning, printer going south when you most need it, etc. down Murphy's endless list, most of which has happened to us at one time or another), the low tech paper chart might be the only thing that will be available to see you through when you most need it.

Fair winds,
Jeanne

 

[david_bagshaw]

Not for a long time I hope

David ps Take a look at my site www.yachtman.co.uk

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: GPS has been turned off several times by the U.S.

I fully agree with you about keeping as many options as possible open - we have paper charts and Garmin G-charts for every area that we are likely to reach, even in the most unlikely of circumstances. Plus a back-up GPS should everything go pear-shaped.

Last year I had the opportunity to fly in the cockpit of a Boeing 777 back from San Diego to London. The pilots informed me then that GPS has never gone down and is not likely to. Although British regulations will not allow GPS to be the primary means of navigation, this is not true for other countries, e.g. Canada. It seems that pilots there use GPS for all aspects of flying navigation, including height control in landings. Thus the likelihood of USA turning off GPS unannounced would have far more serious consequences to others than to us in yachts.

I doubt whether USA advertise this, but reading between the lines I thought the switching off of SA for us was a result of their having found how to apply it selectively to certain parts of the globe.

 

[andrewhopkins]

Professional navigators ?

I'm not one but i get plenty of practise using them even for minor trips. If I have guests on board, they much prefer me to go to the chart and work out they have to steer 140 rather than say "go to Alum bay, its that one round the corner".

If I had limitless budget for a new boat, I doubt id get a plotter etc. There is enough to look at and learn with GPS, Navtex, radio, SSB, etc without having to operate that.

I'm only 32, so im not one of the old grey bah humbug sailors either!!

 

[Guest]

Never I hope, unless everyone can afford the the electoronic gizmos in their place. It's all a matter of scale really. If you are coastal hopping over a few NM's why would you bother with the expense of electronics when a chart is quite adequate, and a GPS for insurance. Similarly, on ocean passages an electronic chart would be quite superfluous as all it would show is blue!

It's a bit like the argument for electronoc books and newspapers - do you get the same pleasure, and range of information trying to read from a computer screen as you would from a hard copy broadsheet, or tabloid.

 

[chrisc]

I am not sure about the cost argument, I am carrying about 400 pounds worth of charts around,
and I guess ,have used 90 per cent this year -assuming a limited life span on paper charts it
may be cheaper to use the electronic alternative. although I will feel happier with paper.

 

[alanhanson]

the info i get from my electric screen is more detailed than most charts & you must remember i have access to more charts electronically than you could possibly hope to carry paper based. they are also updated more often than i would paper ones . the paper based charts are a fall back in case of emergency only for me.

 

[Bergman]

I think if you watch carefully they plumb the destination into all three systems which work on a redundant basis.

I also think that the systems used are inertial guidance which is independant of outside signal sources like satellite signals from GPS, which can be interfered with by the military if they feel the need to do so.

Also over most of the flight they are under ground control and are in radar range for significant proportions of it.

If you cast your mind back to a certain Korean airliner which took a one way diversion into Russia, even these levels of precaution can go wrong.

Having said that I think GPS is great - so much better than Decca that I used to have with those infuriating traffic lights which always seemed to go red or amber when you really didn't need it to.

As an afterthought if you have the sort of system which works to a laptop could you print out the screen display from time to time which would give you a rudimentary chart as a fall back. That may be the best of both worlds.

But please don't quote me to the copyright people

 

[cynthia]

When the chart plotter got a 'glitch' and recorded us as five miles off course (i.e. on the banks), we had cause to be grateful for the paper 'back up' charts on board!!

I know it's double the cost, but both systems are necessary - if I could only have one, it'd have to be the charts. Having said that:

1. Aren't the electronic gadgets fun? We find some new application everytime we go a longish distance.

2. Why do charts, both electronic and paper, have to be so expensive?

 

[BarryD]

As has been said before the CAA (those who control the skies) refuse to accept GPS as a primary navigation aid. As such all sky pilots must initially qualify on maps using wizz wheels (circular slide rule) to calculate magentic and compass headings factoring in track and wind effect and of course mulit coloured pencils to work out where they are going, and have been. Using DR and gross error checking to ensure they are where they think there are - this doesn't really apply to commerical airlines who once past PPL status all fly in controlled space and are under the instruction of ground controllers. So its only the little Cessna / Piper brigade who have a track sheet and a map in front of them!

I'm just about to make the switch from air to sea - but I shall continue to plot on a chart using pencils, factor in the drift and then use my GPS for gross error checking only. BUT then I like to do it the hard way <G>

Signature on a computer?

 

[brianrunyard]

Re: GPS has been turned off several times by the U.S.

The GPS signals do get jammed occasionaly by the Government when conducting defence trials. The info regarding times and area is published in "notices to mariners".