How does one get into sailing?

[prv]

No, i gave an example about someone who was permitted to do Day Skipper without having done Competent Crew.

So?

She went on a course that's supposed to teach people who can already sail how to skipper a yacht, and you're using this as proof that the course she didn't go on doesn't teach people to sail?

Maybe the school shouldn't have let her take the Day Skipper course if she didn't meet the official entry criteria, but that says nothing about the content of the Comp Crew course.

Pete

 

[photodog]

So?

She went on a course that's supposed to teach people who can already sail how to skipper a yacht, and you're using this as proof that the course she didn't go on doesn't teach people to sail?

Maybe the school shouldn't have let her take the Day Skipper course if she didn't meet the official entry criteria, but that says nothing about the content of the Comp Crew course.

Pete

I've never done the comp crew.

But I have been on two courses were they we're doing comp crew as well... One which was myself and swmbo with a private instructor...me doing day skipper... Her doing comp crew.


They did not teach her how to sail.

 

[arfa]

london clubs

I am not a member but if you are centrally based this lot do
"tasters" dinghies and yachts www.lcsc.org.uk

another one to consider is www.littleshipclub.co.uk

Personally i am not a member of either and never have been, but they strike me as good starting points

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

When you have done Competent Crew you may be able to obtain experience through the Cruising Association Crewing Service. www.cruising.org.uk should give you the details.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Try here, but probably not much use now for this season.

 

[Sandy]

On my coastal skipper practical course there was a guy on there who couldn't actually sail the boat competently....

Was it a course with an examiner coming onboard to test his skills? If so did he do the exam or did he fail?

I did a driving test over 30 years ago and am still learning. I started to sail over 30 years ago, on a 30' boat (I like to keep dry), and am still learning.

We all need to start somewhere and Competent Crew, IMHO, is an ideal place. It gives the individual an idea of what goes on in a 'safe' environment. For most sailing is something that is new, rather exciting and very different to their life experience. It also gives a skipper an idea of what a new crew member can do, so when asked at to do something. View it as the start of the learning curve.

 

[photodog]

Was it a course with an examiner coming onboard to test his skills? If so did he do the exam or did he fail?

Fail. And there was a discussion about how he had gotten his day skipper certificate....

There were at that time odviously schools who if you just showed up you got the certificate.... It was 14 years ago so I don't know if you now actually have to be competent...

I was pretty dumbfounded.... It definetly detracted from the quality of the course to have people on board who were not who they said on the tin. Fortunatley a good instructor though, so it was not a waste.

 

[laika]

The cruising ones (competent crew, dayskipper, coastal skipper, yachtmaster) are not really about learning to sail, they're about learning to skipper a crew.

I suspect there's more than a few people (myself included) who have never set foot in a dinghy and shamelessless learned from RYA courses in mid-life. Whilst I confess that most of what I know about sail trim was learned from reading books then experimenting (sometime after receiving "qualifications"), suggesting that the RYA courses don't attempt to teach you to sail is an unusual viewpoint. The course content of the Dayskipper course specifically mentions "yacht handling under sail". I just dug up my old RYA log book which outlines the syllabuses (syllabi?) from a few years ago. "Has experienced sailing a yacht on all points of sail" is on the check list for "start yachting". "Understands the basic principles of sailing and can steer and trim on all points of sailing" is on the Competent Crew checklist. "Can steer and trim effectively on all points of sailing" is on the Dayskipper checklist.

A dinghy course is going to be far *more* about sailing and wind awareness so of course those subjects will be more *fully* covered in a dinghy course than in a short cruising course where navigation and other aspects of managing a cruising yacht need to be covered, but basic "sailing" is most certainly intended to be part of those courses.

Having said that, how well "sailing" is taught will depend on the school and certainly up to Dayskipper it seems you can pass without having much of a real clue: I certainly didn't feel very competent immediately after being awarded Dayskipper and sounds like your partner felt the same. That's just bad schools though (or incompetent pupils , not the fault of the course as the RYA intend it.

So whilst I would doubt anyone is going to win races on the back of an RYA dayskipper course alone, they *should* teach you enough to get by and you can hone your skills from some combination of experimentation, reading, and (where you can get it) advice from anyone who'll offer it.

 

[prv]

But I have been on two courses were they we're doing comp crew as well... One which was myself and swmbo with a private instructor...me doing day skipper... Her doing comp crew.

They did not teach her how to sail.

Great. You have some good evidence for that assertion, and I believe you.

I'm not here to say what the Comp Crew course does or does not teach - after all, I've never done one. I was simply trying to point out the absence of logic in Chinita's post based on the experiences of someone who never did it.

I can well believe that a Comp Crew course would teach you how to work a winch, steer, generally live on a boat etc while assuming that the skipper would tell you what to do when.

I definitely agree that sailing dinghies is the best way to learn the core skills of how to sail a boat. It's how I learned, as a kid. Although I'd hesitate to recommend it to someone whose firm goal is yacht cruising - they'll be a better sailor for it, but perhaps the diversion into getting cold and wet on muddy beaches is just too large.

Pete

 

[photodog]

Great. You have some good evidence for that assertion, and I believe you.

I'm not here to say what the Comp Crew course does or does not teach - after all, I've never done one. I was simply trying to point out the absence of logic in Chinita's post based on the experiences of someone who never did it.

I can well believe that a Comp Crew course would teach you how to work a winch, steer, generally live on a boat etc while assuming that the skipper would tell you what to do when.

I definitely agree that sailing dinghies is the best way to learn the core skills of how to sail a boat. It's how I learned, as a kid. Although I'd hesitate to recommend it to someone whose firm goal is yacht cruising - they'll be a better sailor for it, but perhaps the diversion into getting cold and wet on muddy beaches is just too large.

Pete

I think that the comp crew course was a big missed opportunity for the rya.. I think they now do a introduction to yachting course as well... But I have no idea what that may contain..

They always mixed up the comp crews with the day skippers... And on my coastal we had two as well!

The most important and potentially the most beneficial is that comp crew course... Get that right and the rest is managment......

The course should be standalone... And they should actually teach people how the yacht actually sails, plus the skills needed to be a "competent crew"... The problem is that if the crew don't know how to sail... Then they are not really very usefull....

This way the newbies would feel they had learnt something usefull... And the skills at the next level would be better as well...

But the course should be taken seriously, in my experience it was a bit of a after thought.

 

[YachtAllegro]

The most important and potentially the most beneficial is that comp crew course... Get that right and the rest is managment......

The course should be standalone... And they should actually teach people how the yacht actually sails, plus the skills needed to be a "competent crew"... The problem is that if the crew don't know how to sail... Then they are not really very usefull....

I think that's very true. I agree, as has been pointed out above, that "handling under sail" is on the syllabus for both comp crew and dayskipper, but its really not taught on the courses. You're probably right that it would have to be standalone - perhaps its schools mixing different level people on a course (which at one level seems like a good idea) that causes the problem. Dayskipper / Coastal skipper candidates don't want to (and shouldn't need to!) spend a day or so learning how to actually make the boat move.

On the other hand, as I've suggested above, you could argue that the "intro to sailing" course is already available as a standalone - its just called "dinghy level 1"!

Cheers
Patrick

 

[maby]

Since you are in London, have a look at the Elite Sailing web site (http://www.elitesailing.co.uk/) and do one of their introductory courses - possibly book onto one of the Sailing Weekends to get a taste for it.

This serves a double purpose since it will get you onto their email lists and you will then get notifications of their special offers. They do not like letting a boat go out with empty spaces - apart from anything else, it is not really possible to give an RYA practical course properly without a minimum number of students on the boat.

Every month or two, I get an email from them offering a place on some fantastic trip for very little money just to make up the numbers - provided I can be there with my kit bag later that day - how much flexibility do you have with work?

 

[lustyd]

OK just to clarify, I have done competent crew, day skipper and coastal skipper.
Competent crew teaches you how to sail with no assumed prior knowledge, points of sail, rope work and how to generally run a yacht including cooking and cleaning etc. If anyone has been on a comp crew course and was not taught to sail then at the very least you should avoid recommending that school but I'd also recommend following up with them as to why you were not taught to sail.
Day skipper is basic navigation and how to manage a crew for sailing in coastal waters on shorter trips.
Coastal skipper is basically the same but includes more night stuff, harder nav, and "blind" sailing excercises to simulate fog.

All of these courses include training on MOB recovery (over and over and over again). They also include sailing onto a mooring, anchoring, coming alongside etc.

 

[ProDave]

Reading the above varying opinions of day skipper and competent crew, I'm inclined to suggest you do what we did:

Go and buy a boat. Read some books on sailing. Go and sail it. Make some mistakes. then get a friend at the sailing club to sail with you to put your mistakes right. Then go and sail some more.

 

[lustyd]

I think that's very true. I agree, as has been pointed out above, that "handling under sail" is on the syllabus for both comp crew and dayskipper, but its really not taught on the courses. You're probably right that it would have to be standalone - perhaps its schools mixing different level people on a course (which at one level seems like a good idea) that causes the problem. Dayskipper / Coastal skipper candidates don't want to (and shouldn't need to!) spend a day or so learning how to actually make the boat move.

On the other hand, as I've suggested above, you could argue that the "intro to sailing" course is already available as a standalone - its just called "dinghy level 1"!

Cheers
Patrick

The introduction to sailing course is a 2 day course and is the first 2 days of competent crew done over a weekend. This too is designed to teach you how to sail. As you say, Day/Coastal skipper candidates don't need or want to learn to sail - the comp crew people do this in the background while the skipper people do their nav work. If there are no comp crew on board then skippers have to act as crew taking it in turns.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Learn what sails do, thats dinghies. Then get talking to people at whatever club you're at. Get involved that way and your mistakes will be at someone elses expense! (Stand under a cold shower and tear up £50 notes, some would say £100 notes)
You'll also end up sailing with friends, much nicer!

 

[peterb]

There are several clubs that own boats, and operate them with club crews. Some of them are also recognised RYA schools. Both dinghy and cruising boats.

Some of the clubs operate in association with large organisations (such as banks, petrochemical companies or public services), or did until the recent squeeze forced a separation and opened up the membership. Might you be eligible?

Whereabouts in London are you based?

 

[Oceanis]

I have been interested in cruising for a long time and came to think that this lifestyle will suit me best at a certain stage in my life. That stage is, however, about 8 years away from now. Naturally, I would like to use this time to become as competent sailor as I can.

What avenues, if any, are available for me to do that? I'm 37 y.o. man based in London. I never sailed before as where I come from there's not much opportunity to do that.

I've met up with few sailing groups that you can find online and while the crowd was quite nice the focus seemed to be on recreation rather than on sailing skills. I realise there are RYA courses, but I reckon it would only make sense to take them now if there was a way to apply the skills right away lest they get rusty over the years?

I gather there are races, which seem to be more of my type of thing as I like pushing the boundaries and the sports element. But is there a path for a complete novice to become a racing team member? I'm happy with a long path if it is a reliable one. I checked out RORC website and it seemed to require a good number of offshore miles logged to be eligible. Are there events with lower barriers to entry? Or is one better off building their miliage up with RYA courses?

Sorry if all this sounds naive or incoherent, I am just at the very beginning. Any advice or comment would be greatly appreciated.

Dinghy sailing is probably ther best possible way to learn basic sailing skills, although as has been stated you can certainly learn these skills on a yacht. RYA dinghy sailing courses are run up and down the country and you wouldn't need to spend a lot of money finding out if it's for you. You would need to find one with a number of other adults on the course or you'll be surrounded by young kids who have no fear!!

Yachting is more expensive but does not have to be eye wateringly so - many people enjoy sailing on tight budgets, alternatively you can spend a fortune on it! If you get involved with some of the clubs recommended by OPs in this thread you should be able to find a few opportunities to get out for a taster sail or two to help you decide if it's for you. My personal opinion is that the RYA dinghy and yachting courses are very good but I would give sailing a try out before embarking on the RYA yachting courses.

As has been mentioned, a flotilla holiday in the Med is a great way to experience sailing in a warmer climate. Certainly Sunsail used to offer places on a flotilla boat for singles but I have heard mixed opinions of paying to be stuck on a boat for a week with a bunch of strangers. Sunsail also ran a two day introduction to flotilla sailing course out of Port Solent which assumed no previous experience. I know there are very mixed views of Sunsail but it would be a good intro to basic boat handling skills.

I started sailing in dinghies, then flotilla sailing, bareboat charter and now I own a boat. I did the RYA dinghy courses and then the Day Skipper and Coastal Skipper courses. The courses are no substitute for getting out there and gaining experience though as I learn something new every time I go sailing......much of that being my limitations.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Brother52 (the OP) may well be completely confused!

And if he didn't understand the principle of Fred Rift, he will now.

 

[lustyd]

Not sure anyone has clearly said this (and it's obvious once you think about it) but dinghy sailing is all about the actual sailing. You will get wet and you can't have a cup of tea while you do it, and you'll either be alone or with one other. In the evenings you'd need to go to the pub with the club to debrief and chat. If you do this in the UK then at some stage you'll also be quite cold. Generally you'll be wearing a wetsuit but will end up being able to get the best performance from a sailboat possible.
Cruising will be on a big boat, you probably won't get wet and would be in waterproofs if there was a chance of rain. You can not only have a cup of tea but also a full meal can be cooked on the go. You'll be either with your partner or with a likeminded group of individuals and can sit down in the evenings on board and enjoy a glass of whatever you fancy. If you get cold you can go below and enjoy (usually on a school boat) heating. Generally you'll wear normal clothing and will end up being able to handle sails and get the boat reasonably quickly from A to B. This may not be the best performance the boat can offer but it will be acceptable.

There is a choice in there - if you don't fancy the dinghy route don't feel you have to. The reason we all recommend it is purely to help you learn better wind awareness and performance as a dinghy is instant feedback . A yacht is less responsive so often you are left unsure as to whether the rope you just pulled made things quicker or slower.