How do you actually manage sleep on a 3-5 day passage with two crew?

[Frank Holden]

I

............


In one of his books, Alan Villiers describes the two watch system used on Finnish sailing ships:

0000-0400
0400-0800
0800-1300
1300-1900
1900-2400

I never knew I was Finnish!
That is essentially what we do, voyages up to 4 weeks.
We typically have dinner just before sunset. that means I get to turn in after dinner, typically about 1900/2000. Mate stays up until midnight. I then do the 12 to 4. Mate turns out at 0400. Makes breakfast at about 0700/sunrise. Thats when I relieve them.We don't keep 'watches' through the day. The mate can then turn in after b'fast for as long as they like. I shut my eyes for an hour or two after lunch. Watches resume after dinner.

 

[elenya]

We have done many long and short voyages and use the following watch system.

08:00 to 12:00
12:00 to 16:00
16:00 to 20:00
20:00 to 02:00
02:00 to 08:00

This system rotates you around different watches and gives you a long period of sleep each day.
Works well for the two of us. Last long voyage was NZ to Guam (29 days) ab5 day stop and refuel/ restore and then 25 days to Attu in Alaska. About 7500 nm.

We find the hardest voyages are coastal voyages of about 3 to 4 days. Oven voyages are far easier we feel.

 

[NatalieG]

Minerva — fair point, and I probably deserve that. Yes, we're a maritime safety company, but this isn't a sales thread. The question is genuine — my partner and I have struggled with this on every passage we've done and I wanted to hear what works for other couples. The research paper link is there because it's relevant and free, not because I'm trying to funnel anyone anywhere. Happy to take it on the chin though.

Thank you for all the responses — because this is brilliant and exactly what I was hoping for.

AngusMcDoon, your 4/3 system is interesting and I like that meal prep is built into the rotation rather than being an afterthought. But your last line is the one that really lands: "it's not the night hours that hurt, it's the not being able to get decent sleep when off watch on a noisy moving boat." That's been our experience too. You can have the most elegant watch system on paper but if neither of you can actually sleep below, it's all theoretical.

geem, the evolution from 3/3 to 4/4 to 5/5 is really helpful to hear. We never tried five-hour watches — always assumed it was too long on your own at night. But your point about getting proper rest in a longer off-watch block makes sense, especially past day 3. Do you find the first couple of hours of a 5-hour night watch hard, or is it the last two that drag?

What strikes me is how many of you have landed on the same thing LittleSister and BobnLesley described — there's a hump around day 3 where you feel terrible, and then it gets better. That matches what the research shows about cumulative sleep debt, but it's reassuring to hear it from people who've actually lived through it rather than just studied it.

Sea Change — crossing Biscay with a five-year-old on your first multi-day passage is properly brave. The point about preparation (solar, windvane, pre-made meals) making the difference on the next trip is spot on. Half the battle is reducing the workload so the off-watch person can actually rest.

 

[Graham376]

I generally did midnight to around six or seven but rest of the time no set watches, just took it in turn to sleep when needed.

 

[geem]

Minerva — fair point, and I probably deserve that. Yes, we're a maritime safety company, but this isn't a sales thread. The question is genuine — my partner and I have struggled with this on every passage we've done and I wanted to hear what works for other couples. The research paper link is there because it's relevant and free, not because I'm trying to funnel anyone anywhere. Happy to take it on the chin though.

Thank you for all the responses — because this is brilliant and exactly what I was hoping for.

AngusMcDoon, your 4/3 system is interesting and I like that meal prep is built into the rotation rather than being an afterthought. But your last line is the one that really lands: "it's not the night hours that hurt, it's the not being able to get decent sleep when off watch on a noisy moving boat." That's been our experience too. You can have the most elegant watch system on paper but if neither of you can actually sleep below, it's all theoretical.

geem, the evolution from 3/3 to 4/4 to 5/5 is really helpful to hear. We never tried five-hour watches — always assumed it was too long on your own at night. But your point about getting proper rest in a longer off-watch block makes sense, especially past day 3. Do you find the first couple of hours of a 5-hour night watch hard, or is it the last two that drag?

What strikes me is how many of you have landed on the same thing LittleSister and BobnLesley described — there's a hump around day 3 where you feel terrible, and then it gets better. That matches what the research shows about cumulative sleep debt, but it's reassuring to hear it from people who've actually lived through it rather than just studied it.

Sea Change — crossing Biscay with a five-year-old on your first multi-day passage is properly brave. The point about preparation (solar, windvane, pre-made meals) making the difference on the next trip is spot on. Half the battle is reducing the workload so the off-watch person can actually rest.

It initially took a while to get used to 5 hour watches. Neither of us sleep well on the first night at sea. We tend to do 3 hour or 4 hour watches for the first night. By the second night we hook in to our 5 hour watch system. Its hard for the first couple of nights. On watch we read our kindles and I have a couple of games on the tablet to keep our brains stimulated. This helps to make the time pass more quickly.
Once we get to about day 5, the 5 hour watch system is working well. Your body gets used to the sleep pattern and the 5 hour watch isn't a problem.
We used to find on a 3 hour watch system that you would be lucky to get 2 hours of actual sleep

 

[Sea Change]

Podcasts get me through long passages- The Now Show for on watch, and In Our Time to send me to sleep

 

[richardh10]

We do 6 on 6 off and the first couple of days are hard! After that it all seems to slip into place. It means that the person off gets a good long 6 hour sleep, and can also pick up another couple of hours sometime during the day. I was very sceptical when my wife suggested this, but gave it a try and it's what we've done ever since. Did I mention that the first couple of days are hard!

 

[Dockhead]

We have done many long and short voyages and use the following watch system.

08:00 to 12:00
12:00 to 16:00
16:00 to 20:00
20:00 to 02:00
02:00 to 08:00

This system rotates you around different watches and gives you a long period of sleep each day.
Works well for the two of us. Last long voyage was NZ to Guam (29 days) ab5 day stop and refuel/ restore and then 25 days to Attu in Alaska. About 7500 nm.

We find the hardest voyages are coastal voyages of about 3 to 4 days. Oven voyages are far easier we feel.

With two watchkeepers, the choice is either really tough night watches, or really inadequate sleep. So we do just as you do, prioritizing sleep. I've done a couple of long transits of the Eastern Seaboard on the U.S. in recent years, with just two watchkeepers. Due to other people on board just not up to taking a watch. Not fun.

I agree completely about 3 or 4 days. Long ocean passages are much easier because you get into the rhythm. Plus, work load is less.

I don't like sailing 2-up on multiday passages. It's simply not enough crew. I try to always find friends to join us. In my opinion, 3 is adequate (2x 4-hour watches each per day, 2x 8-hour periods off), 4 is better (the skipper is out of the rotation and can pinch hit and double watches as needed), 5 is lux. We were 7 when we crossed the Atlantic a couple of years ago. Crew resource is extremely important, as any big ship's master will tell you.

 

[Sea Change]

We considered taking extra crew but decided against it. More food, more water, another sea berth required. We also only would have taken somebody who was competent and who we already knew, and nobody who fitted the bill was available.

Having never done a multi day passage with any more than two adults, I wonder what I'm missing out on?

 

[Dockhead]

We considered taking extra crew but decided against it. More food, more water, another sea berth required. We also only would have taken somebody who was competent and who we already knew, and nobody who fitted the bill was available.

Having never done a multi day passage with any more than two adults, I wonder what I'm missing out on?

What you're missing out on is getting proper rest, and having time to do other stuff and enjoy the passage.

Having time to do a proper job of cooking, a proper job of navigating and planning and thinking about the weather, when fixing something isn't a big deal, and when there are plenty of hands in case of bad weather or something breaking. Even time for fishing, or a card game, or even a movie from time to time.

 

[Sea Change]

What you're missing out on is getting proper rest, and having time to do other stuff and enjoy the passage.

Having time to do a proper job of cooking, a proper job of navigating and planning and thinking about the weather, when fixing something isn't a big deal, and when there are plenty of hands in case of bad weather or something breaking. Even time for fishing, or a card game, or even a movie from time to time.

Fair enough. Our passage meals tend to be pretty minimal affairs.

We do enjoy longer passages, but we've yet to do any in really testing conditions. That will change this year when we have to get from Nova Scotia back to the Caribbean...

 

[michael_w]

I get quite enough rest on our 3 hour system with naps during the day. Sometimes it's a bit boring, but being bored at sea can be pretty good! I'd prefer not to have extra bodies that eat up stores and water. Plus one has to be responsible for them. YMMV.

 

[MontyMariner]

I've crossed Biscay a few times solo, sleeping has never been an issue. At night you can't see anything so there is no point sitting in the cockpit staring out into the dark, so come nightfall I just use electronic monitoring, AIS alarms set and a radar sweep about once an hour or a bit longer if I'm having a snooze .
Another ploy I use is not to sail along the A to B chart line, I sail about 5 or 6 miles off it, so hopefully avoiding any traffic heading to or from the same destinations.

 

[Dockhead]

I get quite enough rest on our 3 hour system with naps during the day. Sometimes it's a bit boring, but being bored at sea can be pretty good! I'd prefer not to have extra bodies that eat up stores and water. Plus one has to be responsible for them. YMMV.

You are a lucky guy. I know people who are able to sleep like that and envy them greatly. One of my shipmates, a former U.S. special forces officer, can sleep standing up, when he has even 10 minutes free, and can accumulate his required 6 hours per 24 hours in any combination of short naps. He says he was trained to do that in the service, but I don't think any amount of training would enable me to do THAT.

2-up sailing is obviously much better if you have this rare talent.

 

[geem]

What you're missing out on is getting proper rest, and having time to do other stuff and enjoy the passage.

Having time to do a proper job of cooking, a proper job of navigating and planning and thinking about the weather, when fixing something isn't a big deal, and when there are plenty of hands in case of bad weather or something breaking. Even time for fishing, or a card game, or even a movie from time to time.

We have taken crew on two trips cross the pond. We now prefer to do it with just the two of us.
Once we get into our 5 hour watch system, we get 8 hours sleep per day by also sleeping during daylight hours. There is no serious sleep deprivation.
We have time for proper meals, baking bread, fishing and Internet video calls with friends and family. We also don't need to worry about the ability of crew. The risk of them falling over the side, their odd dietary needs, the extra fridge space needed for more food, wearing clothes because its 30degC below and a bloke is down below with your semi naked Mrs
We like being self reliant. The reality of ocean sailing is that there isn't a great deal of work to do on ocean passages. A crew of two can easily handle it on a well set up boat.
We know of several horror stories of bad crew choices thst made the trip unbearable.

 

[Dockhead]

We have taken crew on two trips cross the pond. We now prefer to do it with just the two of us.
Once we get into our 5 hour watch system, we get 8 hours sleep per day by also sleeping during daylight hours. There is no serious sleep deprivation.
We have time for proper meals, baking bread, fishing and Internet video calls with friends and family. We also don't need to worry about the ability of crew. The risk of them falling over the side, their odd dietary needs, the extra fridge space needed for more food, wearing clothes because its 30degC below and a bloke is down below with your semi naked Mrs
We like being self reliant. The reality of ocean sailing is that there isn't a great deal of work to do on ocean passages. A crew of two can easily handle it on a well set up boat.
We know of several horror stories of bad crew choices thst made the trip unbearable.

To each his own!

It goes without saying, that if you take crew with you, you need to have 100% confidence in them. No disagreement that bad crew is worse than no crew at all.

I sail a lot with friends -- I have plenty of space, and I enjoy it. And I have a lot of friends who are good sailors. I've been sailing for more than 10 years with most of my pool of crew. So, I always have good crew, and I enjoy the teamwork and fellowship. YMMV.

 

[Sea Change]

We have taken crew on two trips cross the pond. We now prefer to do it with just the two of us.
Once we get into our 5 hour watch system, we get 8 hours sleep per day by also sleeping during daylight hours. There is no serious sleep deprivation.
We have time for proper meals, baking bread, fishing and Internet video calls with friends and family. We also don't need to worry about the ability of crew. The risk of them falling over the side, their odd dietary needs, the extra fridge space needed for more food, wearing clothes because its 30degC below and a bloke is down below with your semi naked Mrs
We like being self reliant. The reality of ocean sailing is that there isn't a great deal of work to do on ocean passages. A crew of two can easily handle it on a well set up boat.
We know of several horror stories of bad crew choices thst made the trip unbearable.

Likewise, we've heard horror stories of boats who took the wrong crew.

The worst one was a secondhand story about a boat who picked up a hitchiker in the Canaries, and he died en route to Mindelo. The boat was impounded there by the police, the owners had a horrific time and ended up walking away and losing their boat. Extreme, but shows just how bad it can get.

SWMBO and I have just been discussing whether we should look for crew for our offshore leg from Nova Scotia to Bermuda. One problem is that we are giving ourselves a very large window in which to do it, to maximise the chance of getting the four days of favourable weather that we will need. This means that any potential crew would have to make themselves available to us for a long period of time, for a relatively short trip, with the distinct possibility that we end up having to just coast hop instead.

Most tales of woe at sea stem from sailing to a schedule. Adding in crew is more likely to impose that constraint, unless you're genuinely happy to have them aboard indefinitely.

 

[geem]

To each his own!

It goes without saying, that if you take crew with you, you need to have 100% confidence in them. No disagreement that bad crew is worse than no crew at all.

I sail a lot with friends -- I have plenty of space, and I enjoy it. And I have a lot of friends who are good sailors. I've been sailing for more than 10 years with most of my pool of crew. So, I always have good crew, and I enjoy the teamwork and fellowship. YMMV.

I think when you liveaboard for months or years at a time, the boat becomes your home. Having just me and the Mrs onboard, the boat is our personal space. Inviting friends to share you personal space for several weeks would get testing in a house. On a boat it is more so. You can't go for a walk around the garden!
We still get on with our friends that crewed with us. No fall out, but it doesn't mean I want to live with them

 

[Sea Change]

I think when you liveaboard for months or years at a time, the boat becomes your home. Having just me and the Mrs onboard, the boat is our personal space. Inviting friends to share you personal space for several weeks would get testing in a house. On a boat it is more so. You can't go for a walk around the garden!
We still get on with our friends that crewed with us. No fall out, but it doesn't mean I want to live with them

This was part of our thinking too. And we have a young child onboard as well. We know exactly what life is like for the three of us in this little space. Adding extra people would be a big unknown.

And then of course there's those times when you need to dash on deck in your birthday suit to sort something out. That would be pretty awkward with a hitchhiker around

 

[Roberto]

And we have a young child onboard as well.

I remember having had a chat (maybe Las Palmas) with a young girl who was looking for crewing in a transatlantic but had no sailing experience, she said she had found a boat ready to take her, it was a family with two very young children, they assured her ''no need for experience, you ll have to stand night watches/wake-us-up-if-you-see-anything-style and take care of the two kids''. Run young girl, run away as fast as you can We had two kids too, very young at the time, even my wife said ''don t be crazy''.