How do I keep a small sailing boat?

[NingNong247]

Hi.

I'm considering getting in to owning a small sailing boat (like 20-30 feet with a cabin sort of thing). I'm wondering what I need to keep it in terms of paper work and a mooring. I live in a flat in Torbay, so this is the right area, but I have nowhere to keep it on a trailer, for instance. I understand there are other considerations like shopping for one or how to operate it, but I'm getting that advice from elsewhere.

What's the practical advice on how to keep the thing? I come from a canal boat background, and there you can moor almost anywhere at no cost. Is there a similar situation with English estuaries? Can I just find a place and anchor and owe no one anything? Is that the sort of thing that's not technically allowed, but lots of people do it, or something like that? There are marinas and so on round here, but that seems like more than I need for year round storage. One of those moorings I see where you're tied to the bottom and only float at high tide would be fine. How much should I be paying for a mooring? I don't need power/water/wifi, just for it to be tied and on the water.

And what about bureaucracy? Do I need some kind of insurance or anything like that? I'm not concerned about protecting myself against losing the boat. Is there some paperwork requirement?

Thanks.

 

[KevinV]

You have a lot of reading to do, but luckily it's all here. Use Google instead of this sites own search and put in your individual questions - you'll be amazed.

 

[MoodySabre]

Is it April already?

 

[NingNong247]

What?

 

[CM74]

Paperwork - none required. You can fill out a bill of sale with the seller if you want proof of ownership (or even just a written receipt) but there is no legal requirement for anything at all.

Insurance - not required, but marinas and mooring companies, clubs, and slipways for launching etc often do require it 3rd party at least. It's very cheap in that case.

Training, qualifications, licences - not required. You should have a VHF licence, although you can have one without and save it for emergencies.
I would seriously suggest some training though, even if it's just a 2 day "start yachting course" or bringing a friend who is an experienced sailor. If you are completely new to the sail side it will really help you make sense of it all!


Moorings - it's complicated. Unless there's particular restrictions in place you can anchor anywhere, but it would be stupid to leave a boat anchored unattended for any length of time!
Your cheapest option would be a swinging mooring, where you secure the boat to a buoy (which is secured to a ver heavy sinker or ground chain) depending what's available locally it can vary from a Club facility, private hired mooring (I can recommend "Poole moorings and jetties" in Poole if you wanted to be based there) and in some places you get a permit from the harbour authority to have your own mooring laid in a particular spot.
Marinas are great but pricey!

Trailer sailors - small ones may well be allowed at places that store caravans. Do check you have somewhere suitable to launch though as they can be a pain. There will no doubt be some info on here.



Also have a look at dinghy sailing, it's great fun, cheap and you learn a lot about the actual sailing pretty quickly!

 

[jac]

A high level response - you will need to research local requirements for areas you are interested in.

You need no license to operate a boat in the uk although using a VHF radio does!
Most harbours will insist that you have some form of insurance - expect to pay a couple of hundred pounds (depending on value, experience, risks insured etc.)
Generally there are no places in the UK where you can moor a boat permanently for nothing. All recognised harbours generally have some form of harbour authority and they will control what you can more where and will charge you.
Places without harbour authorities are generally unsuitable for long term mooring but may be ok for short term anchoring. Even there, the seabed is owned by the crown estate so they could restrict you/ charge you.

 

[jac]

Just to pick up on the 20-30 feet issue.

20 feet is generally going to be trailer capable. Once you get above about 24 feet then that’s not really practical- a heavy 4X4 should tow. 24-25 footer ok but the size and time to set up makes trailering regularly an issue - maybe to take home at the end of the season or t9 relocate to a new sailing area but not as a regular thing.

30 feet really need specialist handling for towing. You’re basically looking at a low loader and lorry, specialist cranes at each end. Doable but expect to pay a couple of thousand.

 

[xyachtdave]

Years ago people recommended RYA courses etc.

Times have changed, just start a YouTube channel, that way you’ll be flush with both cash and advice in their comments section.

And famous…!

 

[William_H]

OP question is very valid and he needs answers befoere committing to buying that boat. Things are more regulated here in Oz. However the question of mooring is still a major concern. A 20 ft sail boat is huge difference to a 30ft sail boat. My own 21ft has served me well for 40 years with a swing mooring for summer and a trailer for home storage in winter. But this arrangement would not suit OP. Around here you can often pick up a 20ft + sail boat for 1000squid. Often less even free. However you can end up spending nearly that much each year just to own and keep it. So my warning.... think long and hard about what you want, where you will keep it and if you will actually use it enough to justify the cost. ol'will

 

[Boathook]

How much do you want to spend on your boat ? You have 2 harbours nearby so look at their prices for moorings. A bit further away there are other places but you need to factor in travel and parking costs. To use any harbour, estuary or marina you will require third party insurance as a minimum.
As mentioned elsewhere sailing boats over 20 feet can be time consuming to rig and will require a suitable car to tow plus the associated correct driving licence if young enough.

 

[garymalmgren]

Sailing is a bit of a community.
There are people who know what is happening in your local area.
I would suggest trying to become a regular crew.
You will gain sailing experience, see different boats in action and have the right people to ask when the time comes.
You will also hear just how much owning a boat can cost.
Your skipper will probably moan quite a bit about the on going cost.
That is if your skipper is anything like me.

gary

 

[Daydream believer]

Do what most people in your situation do.
Buy a boat. realise you have made a mistake.
Dump it somewhere. Clear off & leave it to rot.
Make sure no one can contact you. Blame everyone else if they do find you & promise to sort it right away
Then b..ger off again ?

I know forumites will complain about me being cynical, but do they recognise any part of that post?

Of course the Op could try joining a club with a cruising content, Try to make friends ( often difficult breaking into the cruising community)
Joining a new club where you do not know anyone, or anything, can be difficult. You have to be a bit pushy to get into conversations. Some clubs are very "clicky".
The target is to get to crew a couple of boats & ask lots of questions.
Then decide whether to start back at line one of my post, or to carry on crewing & learn about boat ownership by actually sailing in other people's boats a lot. Help with a bit of maintenance & you will then be a friend for life. Any crew who can wield an antifouling brush is a godsend. You also gain real experience. You might find that you do not really need a boat. Boat owners need you

 

[fredrussell]

Do what most people in your situation do.
Buy a boat. realise you have made a mistake.
Dump it somewhere. Clear off & leave it to rot.
Make sure no one can contact you. Blame everyone else if they do find you & promise to sort it right away
Then b..ger off again ?

I know forumites will complain about me being synical, but do they recognise any part of that post?

You’re very cynical!

NingNong, don’t be put off by the forum grumpies - people like DD above have a huge amount of experience and knowledge to share which is a godsend for those of us still at the steep end of the learning curve. You just need to be a bit thick-skinned to receive it sometimes, in common with all Internet forums.

 

[Jacana139]

Hi.

I'm considering getting in to owning a small sailing boat (like 20-30 feet with a cabin sort of thing). I'm wondering what I need to keep it in terms of paper work and a mooring. I live in a flat in Torbay, so this is the right area, but I have nowhere to keep it on a trailer, for instance. I understand there are other considerations like shopping for one or how to operate it, but I'm getting that advice from elsewhere.

What's the practical advice on how to keep the thing? I come from a canal boat background, and there you can moor almost anywhere at no cost. Is there a similar situation with English estuaries? Can I just find a place and anchor and owe no one anything? Is that the sort of thing that's not technically allowed, but lots of people do it, or something like that? There are marinas and so on round here, but that seems like more than I need for year round storage. One of those moorings I see where you're tied to the bottom and only float at high tide would be fine. How much should I be paying for a mooring? I don't need power/water/wifi, just for it to be tied and on the water.

And what about bureaucracy? Do I need some kind of insurance or anything like that? I'm not concerned about protecting myself against losing the boat. Is there some paperwork requirement?

Thanks.

Hi, my recommendation would be to get the mooring before you get the boat.
As a local you can join the waiting list for the Torbay Harbour Authority (Council) moorings. Their website details the costs. As you probably know, drying harbours moorings are in Brixham or Paignton. Not sure how long the waiting list is for these.
The impression I get is that in Brixham there are a number of moorings ‘held’ by rarely if ever used boats, which is a shame if others are on a waiting list.
I have a pontoon mooring in the Inner Harbour at Torquay. These are at the ‘cheaper’ end of Marina style moorings at just over £200 per metre per year. The waiting list was 6 months for me in 2021.

 

[blush2]

Information on River Dart moorings is on the Harbour master's website. I was told just before Christmas that the waiting list was three years. The marinas are 4-5 years. Although you can anchor in certain areas you still have to pay harbour dues. We lost a sale on our boat just over a year ago, the potential buyer couldn't get a mooring.

Also bear in mind that parking is difficult and expensive, if you are on a river mooring you may need somewhere to keep a dinghy, the river taxi only covers certain areas.

 

[andsarkit]

Information on River Dart moorings is on the Harbour master's website. I was told just before Christmas that the waiting list was three years. The marinas are 4-5 years. Although you can anchor in certain areas you still have to pay harbour dues. We lost a sale on our boat just over a year ago, the potential buyer couldn't get a mooring.

Also bear in mind that parking is difficult and expensive, if you are on a river mooring you may need somewhere to keep a dinghy, the river taxi only covers certain areas.

The river Dart is ideal if you want to start just pottering about on a boat before you venture offshore. If you look at the costs here you will see that it is much cheaper if you have a boat that can dry out and use a mud berth. These berths usually have a much shorter waiting list but speak to the DHNA office for up to date information. There is also the TBA at Totnes that have some shallow moorings for bilge or lift keel boats and also parking and a clubhouse. You can also lay up in the car park for the winter. The downside is that you will be restricted by the tides so you have to plan your outings.
Buying a boat is the easy bit as there are lots of old boats at the small end of the market. Getting a good one and the ongoing upkeep costs is the difficult bit. If you find a suitable boat you can come back to the forum where you will get lots of conflicting advice to confuse you. It is all the start of a big learning curve and you always learn best from your own mistakes but don't let that put you off as we all started from the same place.

 

[davidej]

When I bought my first cabin boat, I got in my car and drove around all the coast within about 50 miles from my home. I stopped at everywhere that looked interesting and asked about the facilities, costs, availability,etc before making up my mind where to keep it.

 

[Bobc]

Go and introduce yourself at the Royal Torbay Yacht Club. Tell them what your are thinking about , and they will help and advise you on the best type of boat, how and where to moor it, etc.

If you live in TQ1, you can put your name on the waiting list for a mooring in the old harbour, which is very cheap, but you will need to have a boat that can sit on the bottom.

Also, go and have a chat with Simon Pinder (the Torquay Harbour Master). You will find him in the office on the quayside by the old penquin place. He will be able to help and advise you, and he's not too busy this time of year.

 

[magicol]

Don’t be put off by the less positive comments here. Many of us started from your situation. For what it’s worth I have never regretted the route I took into sailing cruising yachts. So, get some experience first. Use this winter to enrol on a RYA Day Skipper theory course. Apart from the course itself you will meet others often in your position and gain so much wider information. Next summer advertise your availability to crew locally. Cards on all local marina or clubhouse noticeboards will bring many opportunities and give you advice on all sorts of aspects of sailing and where to locate your own boat. Then next winter, when prices are lower, start looking for your own boat. Finally and perhaps most importantly of all, this preparation will help you choose the boat that’s right for you. A 20ft boat is vastly different to a 30ft yacht and only experiencing this out on the water will you appreciate just what is the right one for you. Good luck!

 

[ChromeDome]

Do yourself a favour and execute due diligence when choosing insurance.

It's when you have a claim you know if the insurance is good, but you should understand the coverage and compensation calculation method before committing to anything. The premium is not everything!

You need to ask several companies and do an apples-to-apples comparison of what you pay and what you get!

It's about you actually having the insurance you want and need when something happens so read the small print too