How can I grow my marine business further?

[Observer]

Sorry Victor but I have to agree with jfm at al. The website is simply awful and amateurish. How many words will people read? Not as many as you would like, so you need to make every word count. I haven't time to do a thorough critique but take the first two pages I clicked on:

[ QUOTE ]
"Home" page

Ask any experienced boat owner what he believes are the most important features of a Motor Boat.
The answer would include:

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is Motor Boat capitalised?
Number 1 feature - "safety"?
"Manoeuverability" mis-spelt (okay, it takes someone like me to spot that)
"Shallow draft"?
Email address appears blue/black on dark blue background so almost invisible, FFS!!

[ QUOTE ]
"Economy" page

Fuel Consumption

See for yourself the incredible savings to be made on your annual running costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

See for myself? I wish I could There's not a mention of projected savings - just a boring table which includes irrelevant data on noise levels.

As far as the boat goes, I again agree with jfm. There is nothing about that boat that appeals to me. You have to decide what your target market is and then really work at what you need to do to appeal to them. I don't know if that product has a worthwhile market - if it has, it's not one I recognise.

 

[hobiecat]

Yes - I am interested in trying to understand Mr typical. You have bought many boats before. Do you think it is just possible that Mr typical could be switched on by a motor catamaran. Is it possible for such a boat to light your passion/desire. The arguments for purchase are very strong. There are many sailing catamarans purchased now and yet they have a distinct disadvantage in being too wide for an average berth. This constraint does not apply to a motor catamran. I think the best area for sound reasoning for cats should be the motorboat leisure industry yet it is the last to catch on. The sailing side has, and the commercial side has. What is holding back the motorboat leisure side.

Yes - I am perhaps at fault for a less than passionate website. It will be addressed. I cant really understand the mindset that does not follow sound reasoning for purchase. I still beleive it is possible to get a sexy cat but does Mr typical agree?

 

[David_Jersey]

Modern Sailing Cats beat same length Monos on the accomadation front hands down because a mono has to be a lot slimmer than a cat to sail, plus the shape of the hull on a mono restricts the accomadation further......on a mono MOBO width along the whole of the hull shape is not such a constraint....as well yer can go for a lot more height than on a Mono Yacht.

I would be tempted to try and market a more agrressive looking version (with an abundance of power) - kind of a stepping up stone for the "RIB Boys" / those who wanna look "tough"....think urban 4 x 4. ie. doesn't have to be a Landrover to sell......in fact better not!......and in practice yer may well sell the lower power versions - but still keep the image.

If these cats are less prone to rolling than a Mono, then Anglers could be a market? - and they may also want a more basic fit out? Want something to reach the marks quickly, but where fuel costs would be a big consideration from frequent use......

Maybe go and trawl the RIB and Angling Forums for ideas......

Have Power cats made a "Breakthough" anywhere else? or at least do you know what is selling them?

Oh - I would do some Youtube as well - nice sunny days though! Having fun (With a few bikini babes on board? - I have suntan lotion and willing to travel /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) as well as walk throughs........

Could even tag along to the odd RIB Rally / Fishing competition or even a MBY cruise in company for marketing cum research.....sometime Big Mo has to go to the Mountain!

 

[jfm]

OK, to answer those:

1. No, Mr Typ will not be turned on by a motorcat. It will not light passion/desire. The odd outlying buyer will be, but not Mr Typ. Mr Typ wants Fairline, Ferretti, Absolute, Sunseeker, Pershing, Mangusta and suchlike

2. That the arguments for puchase are very strong is your view. It isn't Mr Typ's. For him, they're very weak. I could sort of pay a bit of attention maybe to the fuel cost stuff a bit, marginally, but first off i have to like the boat, and I don't like the look of cats, and i wouldn't buy one if they ran on fresh air and printed free £50 fuel vouchers as they sailed along.

3. your beam-isn't-a-problem claim just doesn't ring true for Med berthing which is what interests me and much of the market. I haven't studied the dimensions of cats but if I have an 18x 5 berth or a 23 x 6 in the Med I want to fill that 5 or 6m with hull and living space, not two narrow hulls an a gap full of air. But I accept in some parts of the world berthing etc and beam is not a problem

4. Stop thinking "sound reasoning" the way you see it. For Mr Typ it is sound reasoning to spend your leisure money on something you like, not something that scientifically might do this or that better or cheaper. Remeber, this same Mr Typ who can buy a £100k or £1m boat has lots of non sound reasoning purchases, like a DB9, lunches out at £100/head and travel at the front of the plane and stuff

5. Sailing side has caught on as you say, and it's hard to explain clearly why the difference with motor cats. If I were chartering a sailboat in Caribee (which i do) it would be a cat. Faster sailing, get closer to beach, no berthing probs becos anchor a lot, and they are de rigeur.

6. Nope, Mr typ doesn't really think there will be sexy motorcats in near future, and many (like on your website) are miles away from sexy. Some (like the recent pictures on forum) are beginiing to get sexy looking but still dont quite cut it the way a Pershing et al do. Alas they are dragged down as a genre by the fact most motorcats look horrid and are built (like the 29 on your website) in uber-utilitarian style, 1970s caravan fablon-on-plywood with acres of lovely cream gelcoat on show...

7. Mr Typ is opinionated and knows his own mind. There's nothing a boat dealer can tell him about fundamentals. He knows nasty upholstery, non recessed switches, inverted yoghurt pot tapered mouldings, visible gelcoat, screwheads, flimsy tables, carpets that dont fit, etc, when he sees them. He then doesn't believe it when someone says "ah it's all sorted now on hull #2". You'd get further if you jumped on the first plane to Poland and banged the table telling those clowns that their 29 must be a 1 April special and has the most awful new boat interior ever made in the last 10 years and it's quite preposterous to try to sell it to folks with £100k cash to splash on a flippin hobby. Tellem to sort their act out

All imho I still return to your question on how to grow the business and say you should use your boat knowledge and sign up to sell some other boats. OK, if you insist, sell the cats AS WELL, but at least sign up some other product lines

 

[hobiecat]

yes - sadly I must accept much of what you say is true. The extent of non sound reasoning for the purchase of a motor boat has genuinely surprised me. I hope that more sexy cats can be built and change peoples perception.

Your point 2 - I do believe fuel costs will eventually take there toll and cats will look more appealing. A 40ft broom spent £450 on fuel from ramsgate to hamble last week and it is likely to cost nearer £900 next year. Like Gludy - I think even the very wealthy will find these fuel costs hard to justify.

Your point 3 - cats can be square and should provide ample accommodation for a given berth size. There needs to be more choice.

I will give all your points serious consideration -even taking on monohulls if necessary though I would be sad to do this.

 

[jfm]

Refp noint 2 all the fuel hullablu is a particularly UK thing. There is no similar price hike (other than that caused by oil price, which is less severe) in rest of world. And in UK I think the doom gloom o this forum is overstated. There are plenty who can afford x3 fuel and will keep buying it (all imho, dont want to start a debate on that in this thread!)

Ref berth sizes, the harsh fact is that med berth sizes are fixed. The berths are privately owned so even if a marina wanted to change the sizes they couldn't. So boats need to fit the aspect ratios of 12x4.5, 18x5, 23x6, 30x7 or whatever. Going up a beam size is expensive - in Antibes a premium 23x6 is €500k and a 30x7 is €1.3m. So having a square boat just aint smart, and those price differentials make your motorcat fuel savings look like loose change

On the reasoning thing, it is sound to buy something just cos you love the look and feel of it, even if it is scientifically "worse" or more expensive to run than another product. In the market you're selling to you're trying to attract leisure and "treat" money, the same money that buys art, DB9s, flowers, £200 Manolo Blahnik flipflops and £130 Theo Fennell silver lids for marmite jars. None of those are "reasoned" purchases by your definition. But when this sort of money is being spent it's not about boring technical functionality, it's about being turned on.

 

[hobiecat]

Unfortunately, I do think there is a lot of truth in what you say. There are obviously practical people around who will find the cat more appealing. The percentage of practical people will grow with higher fuel prices (good for me). However, I agree there is a very high percentage who do not think rationally in this market. It is an imperfect market.

I dont get the berth issue. Surely it can be addressed by cats. An 18x5 berth can hold an 18x5 cat and provide more accomodation than a 18m mono with 5m beam.

 

[jfm]

I think you have a strange definition of "rational" though. It's perfectly rational, indeed more rational to buy something that turns you on than something that doesn't but uses less fuel. I repeat, you are competing for rich people's treat/fun money, not money that pays the gas/elec bill or buys shoes for the kids.

I hadn't appreciated (and am sceptical about) the 18x5 thing. How come 18x5 cat is bigger than 18x5 monohull? The Cat has an air gap between the hulls so surely that loses volume?

 

[hobiecat]

Yes but a mono tapers to a triangular shape and is V hull. You will get more volume and deck space on the cat for a given berth

 

[Sundays_Child]

Deck space I understand.

Hull surface? How's that helpful? Isn't it like saying Norway isn't a huge country but it has a coastline comparable to Africa?

Hull volume is what's important.

 

[jfm]

Victor, thanks, but still in the mode of giving you feedback on the business etc, that is typical of the implausible bamboozling that I (Mr Typ, but one who knows a bit about boatys) see in the cat market. It's like you have a wierd product that you personally believe in then you invent pseudo science to justify it.

What possible relevance has hull surface got to do with anything? Velsheda has a hull surface the size of Wales but not much interior volume. All your cat's hull surface does is add some friction. Fact is that on my 18x5 boat much of the interior living space is on the centreline and below the water, and that volume on a cat is wasted on an air gap. I think you are quite wrong, and a bit mischievous, to say that an 18x5 cat has more hull volume than an 18x5 monohull mobo

 

[Alistairr]

Ok, Hows this for a suggestion?

You want to take your Cat business forward!

There is a certain very vocal member on here recently talking about how great Cats are, and is thinking about buying one!

Why don't you speak to Gludy about what exactly he wants and get one of your Polish factories to design and build a Cat to his exact specifications!!

If you get it right, he will be the best advert possible for your company,,,,,,,,,, get it wrong.................. and you could probably kiss goodbye to it!!

Sometimes you just have to take risks in business!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Good luck what ever you do.

Cheers

Al.

 

[Seastoke]

Victor I really question your judgement of what the market wants. You said "Pictures are on MC29 no. 1. I have seen many first boats from many manufacturers and this was not that bad for no. 1 boat.". I would say it WAS bad for boat number 1. The faults are not just detial fit out, they are related to design. Look at this picture again:

The faults include things like the taper on the vertical faces of the seat base GRP mouldings. Yes it makes it easier to get the thing out of the mould but it looks terrible, like an inverted yoghurt pot. Other manufacturers are way past making stuff with such 1970s thinking. No doubt the awful cushions, fiddle-less table, unimaginative woodwork, carpet, etc can be fixed on later builds but the shape of the GRP mouldings wont be.

Bloody hell JFM you have been guiding him through business for seventeen years , have you had a cigar yet.

 

[jfm]

Sheesh Seastoke - a thread from 17 yrs ago!!!
Forum was right though - Victor's Polish cats went nowhere and motor boat buyers never switched in big numbers from mono to cat. The cat minority has been well served by Leopard (Robertson+Caine) for mass market cruisers, Sunreef for superyachters who aren't focussed on build quality, and SeaHunter for the massive Florida center-console market.
Interestingly, all of those managed to work some design magic and make their boats look pretty good, or at least not too bad. People buy boats that turn them on/float their boat for emotional reasons, and not because some salesmen goes on about fuel economy or other non emotional things. And of course knowledgeable motorboaters realise that the claim repeated a million times by cat sellers that cats are "stable" just isn't true in any meaningful sense for a motor boater. Monohulls win hands down on this score (because they can be stabilised whereas cats can't).