Hot boating topic

[Tomahawk]

We only see the ones who have the money to pay the gangs.
.....
Lastly, they are people. There but for the grace of God...

The man in the UK who was following his wifes location on the lost boat said the signal died after 4 hours and 18 minutes. 3-5kts? would indicate mid way.

Apart from not believing in that god chappie, what are we to do? Refugees/migrants are often fleeing conflict. And who is to blame them? But one needs ask why the conflict in the first instance? How much is actual famine driven need to feed a population? How much is a power grab between bunch of corrupt thugs wanting to lord it over someone without a gun to defend themselves? In the past we "conquered" vast land areas and administered them for our benefit. But there was a semblance of law and order and a lack of conflict. We were told to leave (sometimes at the point of a spear), but the administrations that have replaced European colonial rule have by and large failed.

The recent accident was waiting to happen. There will be more deaths until politicians acknowledge there is an elephant in the room.

 

[Frogmogman]

Apart from not believing in that god chappie, what are we to do? Refugees/migrants are often fleeing conflict. And who is to blame them? But one needs ask why the conflict in the first instance?

At the risk of being chastised for political comment, dare I say that many of the genuine refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are fleeing from the results of meddling in their own countries, largely by the US and the UK.

Lastly, they are people. There but for the grace of God...

Bang on Fisherman. Let’s all try not to lose sight of this. The coverage of the story in yesterday’s Observer was excellent, as was Andrew Rawnsley’s opinion piece. the photo on their front page a powerful reminder of Fisherman’s point

 

[Tomahawk]

At the risk of being chastised for political comment, dare I say that many of the genuine refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are fleeing from the results of meddling in their own countries, largely by the US and the UK.

Bang on Fisherman. Let’s all try not to lose sight of this. The coverage of the story in yesterday’s Observer was excellent, as was Andrew Rawnsley’s opinion piece. the photo on their front page a powerful reminder of Fisherman’s pointView attachment 126613

Indeed they didn't deserve to die. But until the country is allowed a sensible discourse on the subject and politicians across Europe and the UK begin to address it, there will be more and more deaths.

 

[HappyAfloat]

It is incredibly sad and some of the reader comments in the tabloids are despicable. I particularly hate the ones criticising the RNLI for rescuing some and taking them to England,

RNLI confirms fishermen 'who didn't want migrants being rescued' blocked crew from going to help

 

[cherod]

This will be the same fishermen who voted for brexit , still trying to take control of our borders , shameful bunch .

 

[Juan Twothree]

I've seen comments, on bothTwitter and the Daily Mail website, suggesting that people should sabotage RNLI lifeboats to prevent them launching.

 

[cherod]

I've seen comments, on bothTwitter and the Daily Mail website, suggesting that people should sabotage RNLI lifeboats to prevent them launching.

Well , you shoukd not be reading that type of publication

 

[newtothis]

RNLI confirms fishermen 'who didn't want migrants being rescued' blocked crew from going to help

Considering stopping my donations to the RNLI in an effort to stop them going out on shouts for fishermen.

 

[fisherman]

Considering stopping my donations to the RNLI in an effort to stop them going out on shouts for fishermen.

That'll be all fishermen, then?

 

[Stemar]

RNLI confirms fishermen 'who didn't want migrants being rescued' blocked crew from going to help

"No arrests were made."

There should have been. If there isn't an offence of deliberately hindering or obstructing emergency services, maybe it's time there was. I'd also like to see the offenders photos plastered all over the papers, except that that might make heroes of them in some circles.

As for fixing the problem at source, the source is poverty and instability in the countries of origin. If anyone's got a recipe for fixing that without going back to the days of Empire, which I don't want either, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Tomahawk]

"No arrests were made."
....
As for fixing the problem at source, the source is poverty and instability in the countries of origin. If anyone's got a recipe for fixing that without going back to the days of Empire, which I don't want either, I'd love to hear it.

And there we have the nub of the issue.

Look up the list of countries suffering armed conflict on Wiki. It makes depressing reading. Then consider the populations of those various countries and how many people may be displaced by what is happening there. Then ask what will those displaced by war try and do? Finally think on what this country can actually achieve? How many arrivals can we accommodate before it starts to have an effect on the indigenous population of this country?

Whilst addressing those awkward issues, consider that Braintree and Colchester councils spent ten years trying to adopt a development plan the proposed two new towns of about 25000 each. They were thrown out by the Planning Inspector on account of not being deliverable due to lack of infrastructure delivery. Yet at present rate of arrivals we have accepted nearly 26000 over the past year. So a population the size of Braintree has arrived over twelve months and the country is failing to build enough housing to accommodate them.

It is a right mess. Underneath all of it people are being exploited by criminals leading to some of them being killed, (remember the container of migrants where 30 people suffocated).

 

[fisherman]

It is a right mess. Underneath all of it people are being exploited by criminals leading to some of them being killed, (remember the container of migrants where 30 people suffocated).

39? No, it was 29

 

[Blueboatman]

And there we have the nub of the issue.

Look up the list of countries suffering armed conflict on Wiki. It makes depressing reading. Then consider the populations of those various countries and how many people may be displaced by what is happening there. Then ask what will those displaced by war try and do? Finally think on what this country can actually achieve? How many arrivals can we accommodate before it starts to have an effect on the indigenous population of this country?

Whilst addressing those awkward issues, consider that Braintree and Colchester councils spent ten years trying to adopt a development plan the proposed two new towns of about 25000 each. They were thrown out by the Planning Inspector on account of not being deliverable due to lack of infrastructure delivery. Yet at present rate of arrivals we have accepted nearly 26000 over the past year. So a population the size of Braintree has arrived over twelve months and the country is failing to build enough housing to accommodate them.

It is a right mess. Underneath all of it people are being exploited by criminals leading to some of them being killed, (remember the container of migrants where 30 people suffocated).

Aye
It is a right mess!

I can’t help wonder if the highly publicised ‘mess’is acting in some political slant too ?
Playing with death is pretty base

 

[oldmanofthehills]

39? No, it was 29

Hardly alright at a mere 29 suffocated though

 

[oldmanofthehills]

"No arrests were made."

There should have been. If there isn't an offence of deliberately hindering or obstructing emergency services, maybe it's time there was. I'd also like to see the offenders photos plastered all over the papers, except that that might make heroes of them in some circles.

As for fixing the problem at source, the source is poverty and instability in the countries of origin. If anyone's got a recipe for fixing that without going back to the days of Empire, which I don't want either, I'd love to hear it.

Sadly we inherit the results of Empires. Empires exploit the assets of marginals to enrich the empire- poverty of marginals with wealth concentrated at the old hearts of Empire. When empires fall apart the remnant poor struggle and fight.

I dont know what to do about it either but letting men and women drown as they flee the mess is certainly wrong

 

[Tomahawk]

Aye
It is a right mess!

I can’t help wonder if the highly publicised ‘mess’is acting in some political slant too ?
Playing with death is pretty base

No doubt about that. A number of commentators in various media outlets have commented President Macron is posturing ahead of next years French presidential elections. Our PM is doing pretty much the same, but without the electoral imperative to be popular.

One has to be very careful to avoid the anger of the FAT, but FWIW, it seems to me that both sides of the yaahboo politicing has some merit.

 

[Kelpie]

In the past we "conquered" vast land areas and administered them for our benefit. But there was a semblance of law and order and a lack of conflict. We were told to leave (sometimes at the point of a spear), but the administrations that have replaced European colonial rule have by and large failed.

I'm not sure how the Indian mutiny and famine fit in to your rosy picture of peaceful colonialism.

 

[awol]

I'm not sure how the Indian mutiny and famine fit in to your rosy picture of peaceful colonialism.

.... and the Irish weren't overly enamoured of the potato famine and Westminster rule.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Keep any politics in the past gentlemen - its not that I disagree, but ...

 

[Tomahawk]

Keep any politics in the past gentlemen - its not that I disagree, but ...

Tricky one that. I consider we must honestly acknowledge what happened. By modern standards much of what happened was unacceptable. OOI, and diverging a lot was there any real difference between Peterloo , Amritsa, Orgrieve and Bloody Sunday? They were all products of a mindset of their time. I cannot feel guilt for the behaviour of my forebears. I only hope we can sensibly learn how to do things differently. But I fear I will hope in vain.