Hit by Sunsail yacht, Am I being unreasonable?

[steve_cronin]

You seem to assume that Sunsail sees itself as a retail charter compan

y.

It does NOT.

It sees itself as a supplier of holiday packages and it's customers see themselves as consumers of those packages. They expect to be insulated from ANY outside agency, individual, corporate or official. That's why they get into trouble so much; they always expect the Sunsail rep "safety net" to come a running. When this sort of thing happens however, Sunsail turn the tables and pretend that they just "hired the bloke a boat"!

Steve Cronin

 

[Davy_S]

I am sorry I have not been able to post a reply till now.
I sent two e-mails to Sunsail bases informing them that they have untill weekend to respond, or I will make a full report to the port police and take the matter as far as I can.
I have received this reply today.

Hi David

I will get back onto the base. We were trying to get a report from the client on this but please rest assured we are dealing with this - we have not forgotten about you!

Thanks

Tanya

I shall see what happens next and post the result, thanks all for taking the trouble to reply to the post.

 

[jimbaerselman]

In spite of the appalling and even libellous rants above, the rational approach will work. The yacht was operated by Sunsail, and third party insurance is compulsory for all yachts operating in Greece in order to cover events such as this.

Sunsail may well choose to repay you directly.

I'd suggest that an email to Sunsail operations at Port Solent will make thhings happen more quickly.

In the suggestion I made much earlier in the thread, I was speaking as an ex-Greek charter operator and as an ex tour operator, with experience of dealing with such problems - both as an operator - and as a customer!

And to those who criticise all levels of 'Scum****' activity, I'll ask one question. When you were first sailing, did you never make a mistake? Accidents happen. Operators will take reponsibility for those accidents. But in big firms, communication can be slow and may need a jog or two to make it work.

 

[DRANNIE]

Ok I lets not get into the 'bought" qualifications discussion which also attracts equally objectionable comments. I don't think I said what experience I had. I've about 1100nm as skipper and crew in conditions up to Force 8 including a particularily rough alderney race crossing. I have one 60nm offshore passage as skipper in my log. I've bare boat chartered in the solent and whitsundays in boats 32-40ft and have sailed my own little boat for this season without mishap. Maybe there are forumites who consider me unqualified to charter a sunsail boat in the med and I am certain there are plenty of forumites with a lot more experience and knowledge I could hope to have (probably including you). But I think I should be able to charter a boat in the med without having to print my experience on the side of the boat to avoid snide looks, and have a polite request to raft in a busy marina be met with a middle finger.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

absolutely, and you sound like you are perfectly experienced enough to charter a boat. The objection is less about your experience, and more about the lack of rigour in assessing experience per se with some charter companies..... meaning that people who haven't logged the miles that you have, or indeed ever taken a boat into or out of a berth, let alone a challenging med mooring being given free reign, and hnece causing damage to other peoples personal property....

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll ask one question. When you were first sailing, did you never make a mistake? Accidents happen.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, and will probably continue to make mistakes for the rest of my sailing career.....

However, the subtle difference, is that I wasn't plonked in a boat, with no real idea of what I was doing, and just left to get on with it... like most, I was brought gradually up to speed through drawing on the experience of a number of skilled skippers, acting as their crew, then 2nd in command, then acting skipper, with then watching over my shoulder, and eventually, going 'alone'....

This 'passage of right' is an essential part of being safe (or a similar route - such as decent formal training), and I don't always see evidence of it being required sufficiently....

Never having to have claimed off Sunsail, I couldn't comment on their willingness to take responsibility or otherwise as I have no reference point.

 

[fireball]

So what went wrong when you stepped into that RS700 then?! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Or was all them "mishaps" intentional? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Mikefb]

AS an owner of a boat which i charter to Sunsail i have a few comments:

I sail my boat with the Sunsail logo etc many miles each year....mostly in Greece...the most unhelpful and unpleasant people I have met have been the so called expert liveaboard etc...

I admit some charterers may be inexperienced...we all were once, what I have noticed over the years is that they are far more happy to take advice and help than the average "expert"

We all started out somewhere......some of the worst examples of seamanship I have ever seen have been flying the "blue"......not just yachties.

I've also even heard the phrase....dont worry its a sunsail charter we can claim on the insurance.....and they do....and sunsail pay out....

When was the last time you stern moored with a trailing anchor in a 20kt crosswind?

Having observed several new flotilla charters over the space of a week in the Ionion I have been amazed at the increase in ability over the week from the average skipper.

The people who dont help are the ones sat in the cockpit with their G and T.....who could be offering advice and a roving fender....

 

[duncan]

welcome to the forum Mike

seems a pretty fair set of points

personally I am charterign in the Aegean in a couple of weeks and am starting to hope the boat doeasn't scream 'sxxsail - maybe I should fly my forum burgee?

I have found myself in enough situations in boats to want to scream 'I'm not a beginner' in the same way as I have had to mutter ' I really am a 6 handicap' having topped my drive on many 1st holes at prestigious courses!

 

[Lizzie_B]

-----"We all started out somewhere......some of the worst examples of seamanship I have ever seen have been flying the "blue"......not just yachties."-------

Flying a "blue" has no bearing on experience or background. It is simply to do with the history of a sailing club. They (we) are just yachties!

Seems to me that comment is exactly the same sort of predjudiced attitude as you are complaining of being shown towards Sunsail.

FWIW, I don't generally have a problem with individual Sunsail Charterers or most of the individual boats used for courses, and would echo your comments.

In fact, I saw a very fine exhibition of boat handling as a young (I don't think he was very young looking at the end of the week) Sunsail instructor brought a large boat alongside me, with an engine that wouldn't reverse and gave very little power in forward, in very difficult gusting conditions.

I also witnessed his enormous tact and self control as he dealt with a particular Hooray Henry type guy who had appointed himself as second in command!!

He was very grateful for the hot Toddy as he waited for the Sunsail mechanic in my cabin after said Henry had led the crew off to the flesh pots of an October Lymington.

There are good and bad charterers in every fleet. The worst I've experienced was chartering from John Goode's Southern Sailing(and of course they don't have a large, easily read logo emblazoned on them to make it easy to follow up on any problems).
The biggest problem I have with Sunsail is the large corporate charter fleet that they take racing - but I've learned to recognise the forest of blue spinnakers from afar and simply stay well clear of them.

However, I think they have been 'insensitive' in the way they have apparently 'taken over' at Port Solent, but at least half the blame must lie with the marina management for that.

 

[Allan]

You may wish to add to your emails that the thread on one of the largest sailing forums is now one of the largest threads. It must certainly be in the top 10% and prodominently negative. I have no personal view but reading this I will give Sunsail boats a wide berth. If I charter again I will go for a smaller company, who are more carefull with who the previous skipper was.
Allan

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair do's, he is about the most relaxed 'man-about-town-Littlewoods-catalogue-posing-skipper' I have ever seen.

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]
In spite of the appalling and even libellous rants above,[ QUOTE ]

snippity-clippity-clip[ QUOTE ]
And to those who criticise all levels of 'Scum****' activity,

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't have it both ways!?

 

[jimbaerselman]

Obviously I don't do irony very well!

 

[charles_reed]

The problem is

getting Sunsail boats (or any other charterer) to avoid you.

Some simple plans:-

Avoid marinas
stay a long way away from any charter centres.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Yep! That's me in my £50 oilies from the Yachtmail sale. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Actually me mum used to drag me to Littlewoods as a kid so have never been since /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm more of a Matalan Man or Tesco's Tony meself. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW - They performed brilliantly in the 35 gusting 50knot squalls we came through before the pic was taken in the somewhat calmer environs of the Patapasco River (we saw three boats get knocked flat at the Bay Bridge - I don't think any of them were Sunsail Charters - a busy time for Baltimore USCG).
The girlie was from south LA and was finding the late October temperatures a bit of a shock to the system /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The guy who took the picture was a local owners association member, who having been given VERY, VERY, THOROUGH instruction before we cast off a single line, had been sent below to make a nice, hot, fresh pot of tea. (and very fine job he made of it).

He is now vigorously converting all his family, friends and employees to the real Amber Nectar /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[steve_cronin]

Why was it....

...that around four years ago when I invented the term "Scumsail" I was castigated for criticising the newcomers to sailing and accused of being intollerant of learners and thereby possibly being detrimental to the future of sailing as a sport?

Steve Cronin

(Always ahead of his time!)

 

[Lizzie_B]

Re: Why was it....

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Shame you didn't copyright it. It's used so often now you could have bought yourself another boat!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Davy_S]

Re: Why was it....

Of all the charter companies I see operating in these waters, the best for me has to be Sailing Holidays, They may not have the most up to date boats, but the lead crews work hard to help their punters. They can get their flock in when all around are struggling. When you watch a yacht attempting a stern to mooring in a crosswind the minute they slow the bow blows downwind, so they haul in the chain and the stern goes then, so they have to abort. I think it is far easier in these conditions to come in bows first, this is what Sailing Holidays do.
There was an incident last night, winds went S/W6 occasionaly7 very difficult conditions, a large yacht was pinned on the east mole, he was lying across the bows of three yachts, Sailing Holidays and Neilson ribs plus local boats spent nearly an hour untangling the mess, the anchored yachts who had been leaned on all had to anchor outside the mole after, all their anchors were dragged out by the sheer weight of the stranded yacht plus the wind. Very entertaining!

 

[steve_cronin]

Agree on SH seemingly being the most competent...

..However, is is far easier to handle the stern anchor on a small yacht ( like most of SH's) than 7 to 9 tonnes of your average bare boat.

Last year nauseating little tuirds from Nielsons tried to kid me that they had "Special Arrangements" with the mayor of Ag Ef for priority on the quay. I did of course tell then to foxtrot oscar and continued quaywards with determination and complete disregard. Who does that man think he is?

Steve Cronin