Hifi on a boat

[SAWDOC]

12v to 220v inverters from my limited experience with laptops on board lose a lot of energy to heat so that for me is sufficient reason to stay with a straightforward 12 v system.

Slight thread drift;
Could anyone recommend a good buy in terms of suitable speakers?

 

[noelex]

Come transistors and hifi. Even the cheapest amplifiers are now so perfect in distortion and noise that it is simply not worth consideration. ie no matter how much you pay you can't get better than perfect.
Power available at zero distortion is huge far more than you could ever use.

Speakers are often the weakest components, but there are still large differences between amplifiers at different price points. The low distortion figures are unfortunately achieved with high values of negative feedback which has a terrible effect on dynamic music reproduction. Amplifiers with higher distortion often sound much better, hence the popularity of some very expensive valve amplifiers.

 

[rafiki_]

I would also recommend that you have a look at Bose or Bowers and Wilkins. Both of these produce an iPod dock giving great musical performance, low power consumption etc, and no installation issues.

 

[BruceDanforth]

tripath amp

 

[Conachair]

We are putting together our boat as a liveaboard. We were initially looking at putting a car hifi in. However it occurs to me that we have the space to put in a 240v hifi and run it off the invertor.

Can anyone tell me the ballpark Ah to run this? Plus are there any downsides to this idea, if the unit is secure.

Many thanks.

Don't see the point really, why bother? Just turning on my invertor uses more power than the 12v radio. Not sure if domestic units can run 2 sets of speakers for music in the cockpit - can they?
As others have said the speakers are possibly the weakest link anyway. I went for a decent radio on halfords sale last year, much better fm reception than the old one and having a remote is great, as is an ipod input, always charged now. Built speaker cabs which fit above the bookshelves. Works great

 

[st599]

tripath amp

+1

 

[rob2]

Amplifiers with higher distortion often sound much better, hence the popularity of some very expensive valve amplifiers.

I'm not sure I agree. Upstairs I have a wonderful old Leak Point One valve amplifier, so called because the total harmonic distortion was less than 0.1% at rated output. This performance is rarely achieved on modern equipment. Transients can far exceed the rated output as with all valve circuits - remember the Vox AC30 as a main stage amplifier for pop concerts?

Bearing in mind the poor accoustics of the boat's cabin and the low power requirement, I would favour a car stereo with good quality compact speakers. My boat still has the original car radio/cassette fitted and working well (25 years) - I would change it for a CD unit, but the box has insufficient depth for the newer unit. I would hate to be rafted up alongside someone with a 2 x 100W audio system on board! I ask crew to switch off their mobile phones whilst on board - they leave my number with their family in case they need to text an urgent message. I don't appreciate getting caught in stays because the winchman preferred to answer his phone and is now having an inane conversation about the shopping - grumpy old git, me!

Rob.

 

[noelex]

I'm not sure I agree. Upstairs I have a wonderful old Leak Point One valve amplifier, so called because the total harmonic distortion was less than 0.1% at rated output. .

There are many solid state amps that have 1/10 or even 1/100 of the distortion of your old Leak at 10w. Many will do not sound as good however.
Sound quality cannot be predicted by looking at the distortion levels. It is much more complex. The main use of distortion levels in the specifications is to define the maximum output. Without a qualifying distortion level the output will be artificially high.

 

[BrianH]

My boat still has the original car radio/cassette fitted and working well (25 years) - I would change it for a CD unit, but the box has insufficient depth for the newer unit.

I know MP3 is not lossless but CDs?

I've just taken out a CD changer from my car and replaced with a unit that can accept SD and USB memory. The advantage of hundreds of albums instantly available on a touch-screen is an enormous advantage on my 7 hour journey to the boat. A car is like a boat, the acoustics are such that MP3 reproduction is perfectly acceptable.

I would hate to be rafted up alongside someone with a 2 x 100W audio system on board!

Or in an anchorage, that's where they think they can let rip with their trashy, beating bass noise that goes for music now, and which carries without dB attenuation across a stretch of water.

 

[RichardS]

I know MP3 is not lossless but CDs?

CD format is not lossless in the sense that with lossy formats parts of the recording are deliberately removed. However, any analogue signal, such as music, when converted to a digital format has to be sampled at a defined bit rate and purists will argue that the sampling of the analogue waveform is, in itself, a lossy process. Hence purists often still prefer vinyl discs!

Richard

 

[BrianH]

Hence purists often still prefer vinyl discs!

Complete with snap, crackle and pop.

 

[Stemar]

CD format is not lossless in the sense that with lossy formats parts of the recording are deliberately removed. However, any analogue signal, such as music, when converted to a digital format has to be sampled at a defined bit rate and purists will argue that the sampling of the analogue waveform is, in itself, a lossy process. Hence purists often still prefer vinyl discs!

Richard

I'm well aware of the arguments, but I wonder if anyone's done genuine double blind tests? I suspect a few golden ears would tell the difference, but I'd be very surprised if was more than a few hundred folk in the UK who could.

My ears suffered from .303 shooting in the days when elfin safety was limited to keeping people from going home with holes in them, so I've got no chance!

My wee words of wisdom would be to work out a budget and reckon 75% for the speakers and 25% for the rest. For good bass reproduction, there's no substitute for size. You've got to move a lot of air, so at equal quality, the bigger the better.

 

[nigelmercier]

Hence purists often still prefer vinyl discs!

Which is odd, because the recording process is digital.

I'd nix the inverter idea, there are many excellent 12V Hi-Fi units available.

 

[noelex]

I'm well aware of the arguments, but I wonder if anyone's done genuine double blind tests? I suspect a few golden ears would tell the difference, but I'd be very surprised if was more than a few hundred folk in the UK who could.

My ears suffered from .303 shooting in the days when elfin safety was limited to keeping people from going home with holes in them, so I've got no chance!

My wee words of wisdom would be to work out a budget and reckon 75% for the speakers and 25% for the rest. For good bass reproduction, there's no substitute for size. You've got to move a lot of air, so at equal quality, the bigger the better.

CD and vinyl sound very different. You could never do a blind test, almost everyone with normal hearing would pick the difference. Rather than one being better they are like apples and oranges, which taste better ?. Interestingly the original CD sounded much worse than good vinyl, despite all the specification such as distortion and S/N measuring vastly superior for the CD.
Good vinyl needs very expensive equipment to sound good and is not a good medium for a boat.

Be careful with large speakers. It is very expensive to make a good large speaker and most smaller speakers are much better if you are on a realistic budget.

 

[maxi77]

I'm well aware of the arguments, but I wonder if anyone's done genuine double blind tests? I suspect a few golden ears would tell the difference, but I'd be very surprised if was more than a few hundred folk in the UK who could.

My ears suffered from .303 shooting in the days when elfin safety was limited to keeping people from going home with holes in them, so I've got no chance!

My wee words of wisdom would be to work out a budget and reckon 75% for the speakers and 25% for the rest. For good bass reproduction, there's no substitute for size. You've got to move a lot of air, so at equal quality, the bigger the better.

I am equally cloth eared small arms and demolitions, so can get away with the cheaper gear anyway. In the present boat we have 2 ALDI car units, with MP3 and USB inputs. In the aft cabin we use s pair of computer speakers as the installation was easier that way, and in the saloon car speakers mounted in the headlining ply. Works for us.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The answer to bass on a boat in the saloon is a simple powered subwoofer, and not the ones that make automobiles shake rattle and roll.

I have two small inexpensive Radio Shack speakers down below, but they only had high frequency response, no "body" to the music. I searched around and found a Blaupunt (sp?) power subwoofer. Between the subwoofer controls and the radio's controls for crossover, I am able to get a reasonably decent sound with bass that I never had before. It won't shake the boat or the anchorage, but works just fine for me. I put the subwoofer on a separate breaker (even though it turns off automatically after two minutes of no music input) just to be able to hear the difference from when it's on or off. The subwoofer is about 12 inches by 8 inches by 4 inches high and it is mounted flat on a shelf between the two speakers (discussed in an earlier post on this topic).

The whole rig still consumes less than 2 amps when running at a good sound level.

Folks are right, the speakers make the difference, even on a simple car stereo.

 

[NOHOH]

The Speakers are......

....what makes the difference to a Hi-fi system........Unless you have great speakers...then it doesn`t matter how good the rest of the system is.....
Try some of these... http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/car-audio.aspx/kicker-kb6000-speakers

That said... there are two other things to bear in mind.....beyond the age of about thirty years..most people will suffer progressive loss of their high frequency hearing response...through chronic damage to the inner ear..so......depending on how well you`ve treated your ears... its likely that beyond the age of , say about 45...you will not really be able to truly appreciate superb hi-f......

The other thing ...is that the quickest and cheapest way to `upgrade your hi-fi`.....is to drink 6 cans of lager..........after that everything sounds bluddy great.

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

I'd like to moor as far as I can from any boat with a HIFI or even lofi system

 

[noelex]

....what makes the difference to a Hi-fi system........Unless you have great speakers...then it doesn`t matter how good the rest of the system is.....
Try some of these... http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/car-audio.aspx/kicker-kb6000-speakers
.

You need someting more like this
http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_watch_wall.shtml

or this

http://www.whathifi.com/review/wilson-audio-duette

They are only 11,000 pounds

if you want to be starting to think of a "great" speaker for a boat.

 

[RichardS]

Which is odd, because the recording process is digital.

I'm no expert but surely anyone producing vinyl these days would still be mastering from either analogue tape (as in the pre-digital days) or at least using very high sampling rate digital mixers which are much closer to an analogue waveform but would be unsuitable for direct CD pressing because of the huge file size?

Richard