hi fi, electro whizz help please

[Guest]

This new boat we're buying, we can specify any kit in terms of tv and nav and stuff. But I dunno wot to ask for. So far they've said okay we'll do B&O muzak and raytheon nav kit. But issit any good? Are there any B&O or Raytheon know-alls out there to help me say ah, but i don't want the old version 8000, it should be the new 8001. They have already sed that the elctrical control engines are weird, better have cables and a special engine rev-matching dial. I don't care about whether it is raytheon nav or not, and admit i'd just like it to look the same sort of thing, as opposed to usual slapped up arrangement.

 

[jfm]

Re: dunno really

Hmmmm. Not much to say on this subject but will have a go.

Raytheon has one big thing going for it, which is their daylight viewable plotter screen. I have not seen it in operation, but it sounds good.

Other than that, IMHO, the Simrad is a much better plotter. First off, you can get really big TFT screens (14 inch) and we like those dont we? The functions/gizmos are fab on the big screen Simrads. Eg you press a couple of buttons and the screen splits into 3 or 4 windows, say the left half with a detail plotter screen showing your target harbour in small scale, then top r/h quarter showing a large scale chart with your depart and arrival ports both showiing and the boat moving twixt the two so you can check progress like on a Virgin flight. And then the last quarter can be your virtual moving highway with XTE etc. This ability to configure 1/4, 1/2 windows on a massive TFT is really very cool. Nice for guests to figure out what's going on navigation-wise. You can just have the whole screen showing a big chart too, if you want. And then press another button and all the graphics including the grid on the moving highway swap to red on black, good at night. And lots of other stuff.

The Raytheon just has one screen so you have to toggle between plotter and moving highway etc. I don't know much about the Simrad radar but it looks ok and they have a 2% 48" open rotating array job. It will all match very well on the dash. You can have the plotter and radar in one unit but then even with 14"TFT your windows are becoming small so get two identical 14" units side by side and will look very nice.

The simrads have a computery feel, I mean flat screens with lots of rubberry keys, whereas Raytheon look a bit more grey and industrial, though quite solid and purposeful and nice. But the Simrad is very durable and waterproof in practice, when it pours down on my near-horizontal flydridge unit there's no water leakage problem. Mr Unplugged liked it very much on trip out on my ickle boat t'other week.

The Leica and Furuno plotters look high quality but you do end up with a lashed up looking dash and they dont have the Simrad's windowy functions.

But best of all is a PC system with 3D plotting showing seabed contours in 3D. Furuno make one using a ruggedised HP puter and Nakamichi 18inch plasma screen. Runs DVDs and other stuff too

Dunno much about HiFi though suspicious of B&O. Went to a BO dealer about a year ago intending to purchase new kit for house. It looks fab, doors swish open when you swipe your hand, but sounded crap for 3 grand. I asked salesman if I was mad thinking it sounds crap and he sort of coughed and said yes you need to spend another 2 graqnd on speakers to get decent sound. Best way to road test BO is sail T48 to Barcelona Puerto Olympico and check into Hotel Arts at the marina, 15th floor and upwards. You get full BO kit including two 28" teles and the swish open CD hifi, all for 35000PTA's a night rack rate. Bargain!. Anyway, for a boat I would look at the Nakamichi marine stuff (www.cactusnav.com maybe?) or something like Bose who make a fab system in Mrs M's M-Class so I would trust them to do good 12v kind of kit and they don't have a boy racer brand image like say Alpine or Kenwood which would not be nice in a Leopard.

If you're ever in Lymington would be delighted to demo the Simrad stuff.

Also make sure to get ICS navtex so you can use the printer to print your log.

Seems strange to hear about engine control cables. You wd think that electronics are better than cables, and hydraulics wre the dog's gonads, so seems strange to hear them recommending old fashioned cables? Could this be a bit of traditionalism irrationally overcoming state-of-art engineering, a la alfa romeo few years back?

Anyway, what colour the carpets and curtains? And topsides

JFM

 

[hlb]

I'm no electro wiz as you know Matt but.
Raythion seem to have all the integrated kit and sea talk
and all the clocks are the same shape and colour.
They seem to last a bit longer than most bits too.
Nowt like having both lecy and manual controls.
I came back from Bristol to Plymouth without steering.
But the auto pilot worked and the engines did the closer in stuff. Have'nt bothered much with the wheel since.
Mind you it might have been the auto that went bust, but then av gor a wheel and then two engines to turn it round.
Best to have two or three of everything and umpteen different ways of routing it for when you put the water in the diesel and diesel in the outboard!!
My rathion kit is dead easy to operate. I've never needed to read the instructions. Just move cursor on screen to where I'm going. Press button on auto pilot and away it go'se.
Mind you it's a bit old now so they've probabley made it all complicated now so's you think it's cleverer.

Haydn

 

[jfm]

Re: one more thing on Raytheon

The Rayhteon colour plotter with the daylight viewable screen is portrait format which always seems a bit daft to me as (where you sail especially) landscape is much better. The Simrad is landscape. Raytheon do a 10 inch landscape colour plotter but it's not suitable for use outside so no good.

JFM

 

[petem]

Who cares what the sound system sounds like, it's what it looks like that counts.

Likewise for telly's, it's just got to be plasma, as big as possible. Oh yeah and don't forget one of those great big satellite telly radome thingieson top. One of those caravan omni-tv things isn't quite going to make the grade.

Mate of mine has all this kit and says it's great, you can watch telly when you're going along. mmm!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

\'leccy controls

Had 2 boats with electronic controls and they're definitely an acquired taste. Because there's far less friction in the lever movement, it's not easy to make small adjustmemts in RPM especially when its a bit lumpy; an engine RPM sychronizer is definitely worth having

Personally, I prefer a well set up mechanical system but the problem is that many are not well set up, particularly with flybridge boats with tortuous cable runs to the upper helm. So it's a case of try before you buy

The other consideration is whether the electronic controls could come as part of an engine management system which can give useful info such as mpg when hooked up to the log

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: dunno really

FYI Raytheon radar plotters all have split screen facilities but only in halves; so you can have a mix of various displays, one above the other. Daylight colour screens are better than anything I've ever seen in terms of visibility and the 10in mono units I've used thus far have stood up to a lot of use and weather but do benefit from not being raked too close to the horizontal, as with any screens.

On the other hand do agree the versatility and size of the Simrads are very attractive.

Regarding sound, key to it all are the speakers. If they give you a pile of goodies in terms of the front end and then hook it all up to small car speakers you might as well have saved a lot of cash. Wire a very average set of boxes up to great speakers and you'll get a better result. If the speakers are built in, also make sure they are set into something very solid (ie bulkhead) not a flexible headlining.

Don't forget the flybridge Turbosound PA monitors for that really effective entry into marinas...

 

[Guest]

Re: thanks, and curtains

Thanks for the info and contacts. Sounds a toss-up twixt dual simrad and dual raytheon. Am in contact with cactus bods too, thanks. Absolutely essential of course is massive domes so will have a few of those.

On our last trip down, we had a preliminary audience with the designers in Golfe Juan, in special office just outside the port. Whole meeting in french, and them teensy bit dubious of daft tasteless brits to start. But fortunately i asked for coffee black, "comme un francais" so a good sign for them. First thing, they said, for us, is to decide the colour of the wood inside. Oh no it isn't matey, I've seen the inside of a boat where you chose the wood first, and they've chosen a load of wood, then later beigey carpets and curtains and all looks dull dull dull. In fact, on one boat I guessed that the owner was 57 years old. Er no, he's 58m they said, but...that means I spose he was 57 when he chose this.

You only get one chance with these designer type people before they think that they "know what you want". So first off, I showed what I don't want, with prepared cut out bits of inside of boat pics from boat int mags that look absolutley horrid imho. All malaysian dark wood twiddly fancy horridness.

Right then, I said, so now we'll choose the colour of the inside, then the wood, and the colour of the inside is raving mad bright screaming purple leather seat, of which I have have teensy sample here. Seems they like it cos they can get it made if they can't find it. So the nice lady said ooh alright that means v light wood. What about this, I said, ooh no can't have that it's too cheap. Oh. then off to Port Canto they happen to have a boat just like she means, so we went round and quite amazing Mangusta 80 with light wood but wrong colour (ie not purple) seats. All agreed it would be better with brave screaming purple seats.

The ultimate tests inside a boat are the trowing tests. In the saloon, anywhere other than over the music system, could you throw
a) a cup of water?
b) a cup of coffee?
c) up?
...and still clean up afterwards with zero after-effects other than smell in c? So, it'll be decent teakish wood floors please, leather seats, and not high-gloss light wood. I can always put a rug in later anyway, and the regulation light carpets always look crap after a year or two in diesel city er Antibes. Carpets in cabins, tho, natch.

Outside, these boats are almost all off-white all over with central coloured band along portholes, I'll have silver band which shows least marks/fixes/polish. Only other decision is colour of cloth stuff: stripy blue looks good, boring crew peeps like beige. Anyway there are covers for it so not much prob.

Oh and I will be down in solent this w/e with friends on trudge sailboat 49 those norwegian things halbery rassy probly yarmouth saturday. We'll have ch 16 on, attempt George for dinner, so call Diana of Capetown if arnd?

 

[Guest]

Re: dunno really

With regards to Simrad. The latest software version in 4.07 for both 10 and 14 inch models. The screen of the 10 models is now twice as bright. They cannot increase the screen intensity on the 14 inch models.
There is a new 'Sunview' kit just been released which is a different screen altogether. Claimed to be readable in bright sunlight. Once again only available for 10 inch. The new models are XX42 the upgradable model is the one you talk about XX40.

 

[Guest]

Re: ta

Thanks for input, a raytheon vote . Agreed need decent outside output for loud playing of "Naked Gun" upon marina exit/entry. The saving cash bit isn't an issue because it's "all included", which is a bit of a prob because we don't know at what poiint they will tell us to get stuffed.

 

[jfm]

Yarmouth

I'm not sailing this coming w/e, will be in Newport S.Wales (glamourous lifestyle). Will be sailing the following w/e 23 June. Anyway if ever you're in Solent lemme know. The Simrad is worth road-testing

All this kit for the Leopard, how long do you have to decide? Also when will you be able to post CVs and digi pics of the 6-month captain candidates so the panel can help you decide?

JFM

 

[Guest]

Re: skipper

I am not sure how much influence I have over the choice of captain. I have seen CV's in a boaty office of likely candidates with much more intresting cvs than boring programmers and list of banks worked at.

As to background, I think it'll be best if they didn't speak english so can't listen in to us too much, and if they weren't ancient so all blimmin salty seadog stories, and can show the kids some fishing and teachem french. Progressing further, it seems much more appropriate that a nice tidy female person was the skipper, as the skipper blokes we saw kept their boats in a mess considering they were full time, and we don't need them to be all running engines and tough fendering anyway. She can do lovely cleaning and make nice food instead of running the engines all day, and she won't make a beery mess of the crew cabin. And it seems sexist that no female peeps get the opportunity to be a skipper too.

Bit more work needed on this argument, but not bad so far.

 

[Guest]

Re: dunno really

B&O look good, built superbly but can't really cut the mustard in hi-fi terms. Far better off putting in Bose Acoustimass speakers (I know they do that in the bigger Princesses). If you are really flash, you can put in Mission NXT flat speakers. Anything by Mission really is the dog's doodads.

The head unit depends on what size it is. If it is car sized, go for Alpine. The bigger Alpine units have everything else on the market licked, and I don't mean in the Essex wide-boy XR3i fashion either. Technologically, they are superb. My Dad's got one in his car (AML V8) and I am putting it in the car I am building. If it isn't car sized, then Nakamichi or Bose (again) do something pretty special. With car headsets you can usually get remote controls that you can mount on the flybridge so that you can play "Survivor-Eye of the Tiger" at full pelt at the marina entrance! Can't do that out of the line of sight with a conventional system. Don't underestimate the power of subwoofers also. A couple of them underneath a seat and it really is rather good. Alpine's DDDrive speakers are pretty nifty. But preference goes to Bose. Bose also do the marine 131 system which is salt-water resistant for the flybridge.

And if you find 30 grand lying around, why not treat yourself to a pair of Nautilus speakers? The quality is mind-blowing (as is the price).

Don't forget Furuno - their new Navnet systems are pretty good, and their 10.4" TFT displays are brilliant (crap pun intended).

 

[Guest]

Matt

I agree with below. I did some work on one of the Super Yachts near you and fitted the Bose acoustimass. They were superb set up with a Nakamichi amp and projection TV it was like being in a modern Cinema (This was a 55m one). The advantage of the Bose is that they are small and can swivel to direct the sound where you want it the biggest problem will be mounting the sub-woofer somewhere acceptable.

I personally like Raytheon gear so any of their top of the range gear I would go for.

What about the Seatrek stabilised satellite dish to watch British TV if you have room?

Colin#

 

[jfm]

Re: Alpine\'s problem image

Bose get unanimous vote, well deserved I think. Matt don't you have Bose in the 430 - if not will have in the 55? Doug, would not disagree at all about Alpine technology but they have really screwed up their image brand. Too many ads in Max Power and other such tacky car mags. They make you think of Essex XR2s and we.'re talking Leopard Mangusta territory here. So it will have to be Nakamichi.

The Furuno stuff you mention, is that the PC based stuff that shows 3D chartplotter image?

JFM

 

[Guest]

Re: Alpine\'s problem image

The Furuno is reviewed in this months MB+Y. I don't think that it is that fair a review - the display is significantly better than Raytheon's on the 10.4". Also, you can specify video modules (for DVD watching when you are supposed to be navigating, or CCTV) and ARPA. It can also do radar overlay, which is pretty useful - much faster identifying buoys etc. Since it uses the 10-Base-T Ethernet system, it can only be a matter of time before you can interface with a laptop/PC since the network is computer based anyway. It would be interesting to see what it could do then. 3D chart plotting images are only a case of processing power, which in stand-alone units is pretty expensive. A P4 should do it nicely though...

Alpine may be a bit "alwight darlin', luvverly" wide-boy, but nowhere near as bad as Kenwood! (which were crap anyway - they made kettles for god's sake!)

 

[jfm]

Re: kenwood appliances

Doug thanks, I'll look at MBY and see what it says. The 3D is avail from Furuno with, like you say, powerful PC.

Errr .....lest anyone might get wrong idea, you were kidding when you said kenwood as in hi (lo) fi is the same business as kenwood kettles, right?

JFM

 

[Guest]

Re: kenwood appliances

who cares? they've got the same name - that can't be good. I am pretty sure that it is the same company, but hopefully different divisions. Wouldn't be that surprised if it was the same division though. Kenwood rank up there with Alba and Goodmans in my "top things to waste your money on" chart rundown. They are only just beaten there by a chocolate teapot (although it would be quite fun to have one of those).

 

[jfm]

Re: kenwood appliances vs Kenwood HiFi - different

Nope, actually they're different. Kenwood Appliances was aprivate company that floated 10 ears or so ago, makes the kitchen gear, no hifi. Kenwood HiFi is a Japanese company that sells under the Trio brand in many countries but they dropped the Trio brand in Uk a while ago and sell hiFi branded as Kenwood. There are IP agreements that make sure each has the kenwood name for its product range, but they are entirely separately owned companies.

On the HiFi front, agree with you generally but putting them in the same box as Alba and Goodmans is harsh, they're not THAT crappy. But it's all academic for this thread, we're unanimous they don't belong on an Italian superyacht!

JFM

 

[Guest]

Re: kenwood appliances vs Kenwood HiFi - different

I stand corrected.

Tell you what, matts. What would be really natty is a big sticker to go over the front windscreens advertising what stereo you have got, e.g. "Pioneer", and "Max Power". Now *that's* classy.