HELP

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Just thought I'd throw my fourpenny's worth in here
1. Unless you've got money to burn, do not buy new. It is highly likely you will go thru' 2 or 3 boats before you decide what really suits your requirements. Personally I've been thru' 8 in 12 years and I still dont know!
2. For the British weather, a flybridge type boat is definitely better because you have more internal accomodation. There is nothing more miserable than huddling in your leaky sportscruiser cockpit to avoid the weather and nothing more irritating than struggling with recalcitrant cockpit covers every time it looks like rain
3. Go for shaftdrive not sterndrive especially if you intend to use it on the Thames. A 40' shaftdrive flybridge boat is easier to manouevre than a 40' sterndrive sports cruiser despite the extra windage, especially as you could be doing a lot of manouevering in locks
4. If you really do intend to boat on the Thames, check the air draft (height) of the boat against bridge heights. For example I doubt whether a F46 or P45 will get under Windsor bridge. Mike t mentioned Brooms or Atlantics with their aft steering positions; these are more suitable for the Thames because they are lower but they still have good sea going hulls. Cherrywood veneer (and thats what it is) looks great at Boat Shows but does'nt look so good when your 6 year old gouges a hole in it; it does'nt repair very easily so you're better off with a traditional teak or mahogany finish which can be repaired (I've been there and got the tee shirt on this one!). Another point about a Broom type boat - you can watch the kids going in and out of the saloon onto the deck, unlike a full flybridge boat, and thats a good safety feature. If you go down the Broom route, Harleyford is a good place to buy

Good luck

 

[telmate]

Thanks very much for the advice and I will certainly bear that in mind. I know that the Fairline and Princess will not make it under Windsor Bridge and I was pretty much resigned to that fact. In addition I think an aft cabin boat also has real benefits and we also seriously considered the Sealine F43 and T46. I'll take another look at the Brooms and Atlantics (which seem to have a more plush fit-out). In any event I have categorically decided not to buy new.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Newer Atlantics, at least the ones I've seen, have a very stylish fit out but they're still a bit of an unknown quantity as far as resale goes.
I currently own a Broom so I'm biased but it depends how you define 'plush'. We've learnt over the years that, for a boat to be comfortable, everything on it needs to be of adequate size. By that I mean, things like cabins, beds, toilets, showers, galleys, saloon and cockpit seating need to be generous and Broom do that very well. Some other boats have very narrow beds or poky toilets or showers you cant turn round in or saloon seating with uncomfortably low backs. These are all design tricks to make the boat appear bigger than it is. Brooms also have good functionality with things like wide walkways around the decks, steps in the hull to aid boarding, solid guardrails all round, good engine access, handrails in the accomodation etc. The fit out is certainly not the last word in style but, on the plus side, it wont date either!

 

[alanhanson]

for what it is worth i think you do not buy a boat with your head you buy with your heart
you could easily invest the cash & charter on a regular basis before you commit the whole
think of it like buying a car you would not buy a porche or a ferrari with your head but they would bring brilliant fun
good luck what ever you choose

 

[telmate]

I agree and have recently bought an Aston Martin Vantage Volante which is fantastic but totally impractical! I have no regrets by the way! Thanks for your message.

 

[Guest]

Re: that changes it a bit!

I was about to launch into a load of rubbish about rental, and blah blah blah. But with a massive motor, you need a massive boat. Southhampton is no good- go to Cannes boatshow but limit yourself to three million quid for the first boat.

 

[jollyjacktar]

You are a Novice?

You are prepared to part with $350K as a novice and knowing nothing about boats???!!!!*****. A fool and his money are easily parted. Why not start in a more modest way and see if you like things first. It is not all beer and skittles. However if you wish to make a grand display ????!!!!!,

 

[Guest]

Re: don\'t listen to him tel!

Telmate, now we've established that you are reasonably loaded, it won't be much fun in a crummy old boat now will it? No. I saw some program about multi-squillionaires, and they helishots of their deeply depressing albeit cheap fifty footers.

So, first and foremost, the boat must be comparable or better than your house. Otherwise you simply won't go.

Also, in the uk, it really has to be a flybridge. If you want an open boat, then take it to the med. Otherwise, as others said above, expect fiddling with cockpit covers which are to keep the SUN off, not the rain.

So, for a nice boat in a the med for an Aston owner? Um, a Bahai Azzura 63, or possibly Magnifica 73, or a Panther 80, all with Arneson drives and good for 40 -50 knots. Also nice and low so they'll get up the Thames, tho I wonder what they'll say...

Seriously, you'll notice that all boats under forty feet are for sale: if they like it, they sell and go bigger. If they hate it, they sell. You like it, so may as well cut out that stage, and possibly the next one too. You limit is just short of 80 feet before you aren't allowed to drive it yerself. Don't listen to the tripe about there being "no space for even small boats". Being a harbour master is dead boring, so it's always more fun for them to have a visit from a walloping great big boat.

 

[Guest]

Re: Why a Flybridge?

Yes, I'm convinced. We decided on a flybridge boat because it provides more space for the same length than does a sports boat (we want to use it for extended periods rather than just weekends). But also important are lower helming in bad weather, warmth in cold weather. Consider being in a tent (i.e. canopy) in bad weather on a sports boat. Open sports boats without the upper level of a flybridge are good if you need to keep an eye on where young children are all the time. You're looking for a 46 which means 3 cabins and you said large family so bear the young children bit in mind. On the other hand, can't someone other than the skipper watch out for the kids? We don't need 3 cabins, hence a Phantom 43 is all we need. An older Phantom 42 or Princess 40 are other possibilities for us but the extras included in the newer Phantom 43 makes the extra cost worthwhile for us.

We've tried a flybridge and sports boat in the Med. Visibility is much better from the flybridge. When a sports boat goes onto the plane, your visibility on a flybridge is obscurred by the front part of the boat and/or the frame of the windscreen. We took photos of the problem to remind ourselves in case we forgot how bad it was! Look at the helm position on a sports boat. The front of the seat is made to turn up and use as a bum rest while you're standing up to drive the boat. Now that might be OK for short trips but I'd think it more tiring on longer trips when I'd prefer to be able to sit down and still see where I'm going. I'm told that many Med sports boats are used as day boats for short trips. They often do not get slept on as the people sleep in their nearby villas!

Ladders someone mentioned. You're interesting in buying new (or recent like us). Flybridge boats until 5 or 6 years ago (very approx) had ladders but all (I think) recent boats use a staircase. These newer boats have larger flybridges than older (ladder) boats which also had smaller flybridges. So the social contact problem for the skipper is not relevant to a modern boat where lots of people can easily walk up the stairs when they might not so happily have climbed a ladder.

I'm tracking all the adverts in MBY for the boats we're interested in, watching prices and how quickly the advert disappears from the pages (indicating it may be sold).

 

[Guest]

Re: but against flybridges

I speak as one with a sportsboat, and in the med, and with children 9 and 12. Suppose i'm biased, and i'd put the case for flybridges, cept you and other have, so here goes against the motion

1. Long journeys
You can sit down. You can stand up. On a distance of over 100 miles you need wind protection, which a windrscreen provides, otherwise you need to wrap up.

2 As far as sitting down is concerned, it's only comfortable on very flat seas, otherwise surely better IMHO to stand to cushion the crump of the sea on spine.

3. Mooring.
This is tougher in a flybridge, as it gets moved around my the wind. And the helms are all a bit difficult to get to if you do the lines too. If you get a flybridge with electronic controls, a good idea is the extra (thirsd set at the back so you can do lines and move the boat too a bit.

4. General life
You see flybridge boats with everyone on top when it's a short trip. But they don't stay up there. I'll just nip downstairs says one or two. Soon, there's one party downstairs, another one in the saloon, and buggins driving.

5 Open boats give a larger single-level party at anchor or at sea ( for a given size)

6 The bimni shade can stay up all summer without covers in the med. Otherwise it's a crap zipper session.

7 Open boats look better.

8. Flybridges look a bit dodgy for cvlambering around with food and drink

Mind you, flybridges better for monaco GP views, and for parties where you can move away from those awful people, who invited them?

 

[Guest]

Re: but against flybridges

You make some interesting points but I would still always go for a flybridge boat for the UK and would take a bit of convincing to go for a sports boat even in a warm climate. Just dealing with the points you make

1) I agree that even in a warm climate you still need wind protection. Most decent sized flybridge boats offer a fair bit on the flying bridge. Generally the windscreen leans forward and this seems to have the effect of deflecting airflow over the heads of the occupants. However, you can't stand up and be protected.

2 I have never had much of a problem sitting to con the boat although the late lamented Amoureuse allowed you to sit or stand at the lower helm - an unusual feature for a flying bridge boat. I certainly have not had the discomfort in a seas problems you refer to.

3 I do not think that getting out of a deep cockpit position is likely, on average, to be any easier than stepping down from a flybridge or out to the cockpit from a lower helm. You still have to maneuver past the helm seat and reach wherever you get side deck access. Plus foredeck access is usually a bit less secure with no superstructure to hang onto on the way there!
Given Med stern to mooring, I agree that a set of trolling controls in the cockpit could be quite handy.

4 If everyone is downstairs, you can always join in what will generally be airconditioned comfort

5 I agree, but it will not be much bigger when the patio doors are fully open, which combines the cockpit and saloon areas. One advantage is, however, that red wine split on fibreglass decks is less damaging than on carpets/upholstery

6 On a trip to Australia recently we were entertained on a boat belonging to a partner in our Sydney office which was an Australian built flybridge boat which was quite roomy but poorly equipped by European standards - a bit like American boats - trash compactor included but no anchor or winch! Anyway, they all had canvas/plastic tents erected on the flying bridge which was absolutely naff looking but I suppose fairly effective in cutting down cases of maritime sunstroke (or skin cancer). I just make the point as I think that generally canvas, bimini top or otherwise, does absolutely nothing for the appearance of any boat.

7 Nice flybridge boats look better

8 Concede on transporting food/drink to flying bridge but never found it to be a real problem

Even in the Med you get inclement weather and it is nice to have somewhere to retire to in such conditions, especially when it is peeing down or the going gets rough and the boat is taking green water!

So there!

Nick

 

[Guest]

Re: Also now boatless, of London

Oh dear, I shouldn't have taken issue, grieving as you evidently are over the late lamented load of old plastic erm beautiful seagoing craft. And I see above that you are still sneaking around the old haunts, looking at boats.

You're right about flybridges for the UK. But you'll take a bit of convincing on an open boat in the med, eh? How much convincing? There must be some half-arsed web conference in Cannes or Nice next year, so come along if yer around.