Help with engine choice

[terryw]

Just ordered the new boat from the boat show, but have to make a choice (possibly) on the engines. As many of you have a great deal more experience with various engines than myself, I would welcome your comments, preferably based on knowledge rather than "Oh my God they are V####s.

1. Volvo KAD300 EDC - 285 HP - Base price.
2. Volvo D6 - 310HP - Add approx £6,000 - May not be an option as V Drive may not be available until middle of next year.
3. Cummins 370B - 370HP - Add £11,000 + £3,500 for Morse controls.
4. Yanmar 6LYA - 370HP - Little or no extra cost except for £3,500 for Morse controls. - May not be an option as negotiations ongoin.

My choise would be (if all available)
1. Yanmar - Have them now. Very powerful. Good name.
2. Volvo D6 - Because it is cheaper than the Cummins.
3. Cummins - Good name. Plenty of power, but expensive.
4. KAD 300 - I am being influence by all the bad press on here regarding Volvo reliability and costs.

The boat is 33 foot sport cruiser. Weight 6,900kg empty so say 8,500kg loaded. Twin engines on V drive. (outdrives are also possible)

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Terry

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[Dave_Snelson]

Seems to me like you've already done all the leg work. I would have put your choices in the same order as you have them already!

(Get the Yanmars with Morse - go on, you know it makes sense!)

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
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[Alistairr]

Excuse me for being ignorant,

But what are 'morse' controls? And what are the advantages of having 'V' drives to sterndrives?

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[terryw]

If they are available I definately will, unless someone gives a good argument for one of the others.

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[BarryH]

There's been a lot of volvo bashing over the past......for however long. But is it just. Theres quiet a few builders that use'em probably because they get them at a good price unit cost. So being a popular engine there's bound to be more of them about. The law of averages now takes over. How many fords vauxhall do you see at the side of the road compared to RR and Bentley's

Your starting with new engines. If you look after them properly, not saying you don't, they should give a long life. How many of the reported problems in the past have been genuine failure and how many have been due to a bit of neglect. I'd weigh up down time and ease of repair and parts availability. Have a look around and see if theres a good dealer agent near you for your chosen engine. Have a look at warrentee's and what you get whats covered etc. I'd rather a boat that I can use rather than look at.



Atn the end of the day its your money, your choice. Is it poss to see the engines in other installations, maybe see them in action and get a better view that way. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so to speak.

edited for crap spellin'

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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by BarryH on 16/09/2003 11:04 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[terryw]

Morse controls are electronic (electric?) also known as "Fly by wire". They are very smooth, you can leave the throttle levers alone when cruising as there is is no cable creep, and mooring is easier (IMHO), and you can actually put one forward and one reverse with the same hand at the same time using finger and thumb.
V Drives are a way of driving shafts. The "gearbox" is onboard so all servicing can be done in the water saving a lift-out, and it does not get attacked by the water and its inhabitants. I am also reliably informed that shaft are far superior to outdrives in close quarters handling. I will let you know after sea trial in a couple of weeks time.

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[burgundyben]

On the Cummins, the B series is a great engine, but has a poor reputation in vehicles where there was a history I think of crankshaft thrust washers spinning out, but thats well sorted now, plus, at 370 hp thats a lot from a 6 litre, I think the B series starts at about 210 hp and goes to 400 so 370 is near top end of scale so longevity might need to be questioned, cant comment on other options.

Seems an expensive option.

I'd always go for cubes and low revs. Which of the choices is biggest in litres?



<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.

 

[KevB]

It doesn't matter how much bad press Vo*%o's may get, like for like a pleasure boat fitted with their engines will always have a higher resale value, ALWAYS.
You only need to have a look at the many brokerage web sites to see that this is 100% true.

Anyhow. You should be more concerned with the make of landing gear your boat is fitted with..... Having engines of that size in a 33' boat, it wont be long before your airborne

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[apollo]

Go for the Yanmars.

Even manufacturers seem to attempting to move away, 10 years ago it was Volvos or nothing.

The fact that all these other makes are offered now speaks volumes.



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[apollo]

In your dreams

"You only need to have a look at the many brokerage web sites to see that this is 100% true"

Maybe for a particular style/type of boat but in general.....bunkum!

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[KevB]

Yeah, go for Yanmars and have your boat worth 10k less when you come to sell it than if it was fitted with Volvo's!

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[KevB]

Re: In your dreams

You show me pleasure boats for sale of similar spec with and without Volvo's where the volvo engined boat is least expensive. There may be one or two exceptions out there but generally volvo equiped boats demand a higher value.

I can't imagine there being any instances in the 25' - 45' pleasure boat market where this is not the case.

I'd like to make a point: I am not a great Volvo lover. I feel ripped off everytime I get mine serviced, but, if I was going to have an engine failure I'd rather it be a Volvo because whatever marina you are in that has a boat yard the chances are they are a Volvo agent.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by KevB on 16/09/2003 12:30 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Observer]

I don't think 'Morse' controls are inherently electronic. They are (or were) the type of control consisting of stainless or chromed levers with a ball grip at the top. They were sometimes (I think) combined gear/throttle and sometimes separate gear/throttle. As far as I understand, they are known for smoothness of operation.

Electronic gear/throttle controls is an option or standard on different engines. The KAD300 are electronic as standard, designated by the "EDC" suffix (Electronic Diesel Control). Other manufacturers probably have different designations.

A V drive power installation is principally characterised by the fact that the engines are installed back to front - i.e. with the drive shaft running from the forward rather than the aft end of the engine. The power is then taken through a V gearbox to conventional shafts. This allows the engines to be located further aft than would otherwise be possible whilst maintaining an acceptable angle on the shaft. This in turn releases space forward for accommodation. So, in a typical aft cockpit style boat with V drive, the engines may be located under the cockpit sole instead of the saloon sole with conventional shaft. This would be the same with sterndrives but of course in that case the power is taken through the transom. So with V drives/stren drives you would gain accommodation forward but lose the lazarette often found on shaft drives.

Finally, I don't think shafts give more manoeuvrability than sterndrives but they are probably easier to handle.

I hope this is right - no doubt somebody will jump in if not.



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[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: In your dreams

Yes, I think you have a good point there. With Volvo's engine failure is something you have to get used to. This is not so with other makes. And as you quite rightly say, you do need to be marina-based so that you are always within reach of an engineer (or Sea Start).

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[tcm]

yes, agreed. £3.5 k for electronic instead of cables seems steepish - only really great for having controls in various places all over a (much bigger) boat.

If there are engine options, i wd alsways go for the largest option. Exception is some sunseekers where triples are an option, not really nec since the twins make almost 40 knots.

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[jhr]

I'd go for the Yanmars.

The D6 may be a great engine, but we don't really know yet, do we?

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[KevB]

Re: In your dreams

More diesel volvo engines out there in pleasure craft than the rest put together = more volvos going wrong but not as a percentage.
How about all those nice Yellow CATS that the RNLI use, always going wrong. Cracked heads and or blocks is something to expect and that was something an RNLI engineer said to me.
As I said, I am not a Volvo lover but if it was my money that's where it would go.

If you want to retain the best resale value, you can't dispute that having a volvo engine is more likely to do this for you than any of the rest.

Maybe not the best engine in every case but over the vast range available, as good as any.

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[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: In your dreams

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. My experience of Volvo engines is that they can not be relied upon. Also, parts availability is not as good as other makes which are based on vehicle engines and use generic marinising parts.

Resale value does not enter the equation for me. Reliability is the absolute top priority.

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[longjohnsilver]

Always = sometimes

If I were in the market for a secondhand cruiser I would look for anything which doesn't have Volvos, and I know many others who would say the same. That's not to say that they're all bad engines, but many others seem to be more reliable with cheaper spares and easier to work on.

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[KevB]

Re: Always = sometimes

Ford Focus (Volvo) or the equivalent Hyundai model (all the others(The Accent I think)) by far most go for the Focus, not cause it's better but cause it's a Ford and all the others who buy them can't be wrong.

So when I come to sell, my depreciation is much less than yours and I'll probably sell it without too much trouble. Same with boats, most (not all) will prefer a Volvo engine cause that's the norm. And they aren't that unreliable. Buying something else is a step into the unknown.
All undisputable cause that's the way it is. I'm not saying it's right but hey ho....


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