Help!!! Quality of goods dispute - New boat

[ronnier8]

I bought a brand new Viva 18, 18ft day sailer as part of a boat and trailer package from a UK dealer. The boat was soled to me as 'fully unsinkable' by the dealer. The basic constuction of the boat is from 2 moulds a one piece grp deck and a hull the 2 being joined at the gunwhale. According to the manufacturers specification document supplied with the boat the void between the two GRP sections is filled with Airex foam (this is a closed cell polymer foam). The boat was supplied with a Brenderup 8116 trailer.
In August last year I had been sailing the boat in SW Scotland and decided to leave the boat overnight on a drying mooring intending to sail the next day. The next morning I found the boat sunk at the mooring. I recovered her at low water from the beach and could see no damage to indicate why the boat had sunk, the cockpit is self draining. On putting the boat on the trailer the trailer rollers punched holes in the hull releasing a huge amount of water. Clearly the void between hull & deck had been full of water and the excess weight is what caused the damage when pulling the boat onto the trailer. It subsequently turns out that there is no foam filling between the hull and deck. I have also discovered that the trailer supplied with the boat is intended for 16ft motorboats not 18ft trailer sailers. A surveyor's report indicates that the boat probably sank due to hairline cracks caused when trailering on an unsuitable trailer. The surveyor also confirms that there is no evidence of any foam between hull and deck. The dealer does not want to know and my insurance company have said that I must follow up my assertion that the sinking and damage was caused ultimately due to a manufacturing defect and trailer not fit for the purpose supplied. So I am stuck as legal action would prove very expensive if done via a solicitor and the small claims court limit of £5000 would probably not cover a suitable repair.
I should add that I reported the matter to Trading Standards and they investigated but felt the dealer had not acted criminally.
Can anyone help me with regard to how I might proceed with this?

 

[photodog]

So, this is a 2005 boat.. so you will be outside of any formal warranty... I would just put in a claim to the insurer's and leave there legal department to deal with the causes... you have pursued the dealer, and they odviously wont budge without legal action...I would suggest that this is what you paid your insurance premium for...

Good luck....

You could also tell us who you bought the boat from...

Are Polish boats rubbish?? Must be asked. Certainly doenst look like the distributor is gonna step up to the bat.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[richardabeattie]

Surely if you have written evidence that the boat was foam filled (and not just the vendor's oral assurance) and the boat is now found to have no foam in it you have a very strong case?

 

[Refueler]

I'm confused as to why so many have walked away from the boat - if as you say the boat is not as manufacturers spec.

If you have physical document stating craft is foam filled, why are Trading Standards not interested ? Seems that would be right 'up their street'.
The matter of the trailer - did you have any influence on choice of trailer ? or was the boat sold as a package with this trailer and no other option ?

I have a bit of a problem with the idea that a trailer rollers have damaged a hull to sink it. Did the boat sit on the rollers squarely and supported evenly or did the boats shape not match the rollers / supports creating hight stress points ? If the latter - then surely this would have been evidenced when the boat was sitting on the trailer before use ?

My overall impression from your text is that Insurance and Trading standards may have walked away because too many "if's" ?
I would suggest that you go back to Insurance and try get them to claim .........

 

[Kylora]

Is this the same incident?

RYA Story

Ash

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the same incident?

RYA Story

Ash

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting so it appears that back then at end of 2008 - Trading Standards were interested in the incident. So what changed ? if anything ?

 

[Thistle]

Interesting website the manufacturer has here

"The company exists since 1997. It's located in Gozd near Warsaw. We specialize in the international trade, we transport goods esp. Food in our own trucks. For three years we've been selling peanuts in Poland.
We are also specialized in boats and yachts construction.
Our products have been exported to many countries and regions."

I think I'd be pleased to be dealing with insurer / dealer / trading standards rather than direct with the manufacturer!!

 

[Nigel_Ward]

Is this the same Viva that is still selling boats? If so the manufacturer must have had the boat EC certified as it was sold in the EU and Poland joined EU in 2004. If foam was part of the spec. it was probably certificated on that technical point.

I think if this were my boat I would claim on my insurance then let them fight the other battles as they are the experts!

 

[Kylora]

This is a better website for the yacht side of their business - Viva

If you google then the smallest viva that you find for sale is the 600 which I would call 20'.

Haven't found any described as an 18'.

Manufacturers website for Viva 600 doesn't mention foam or unsinkability.

Ash

 

[ronnier8]

The boat was bought from Wittey Marine. Are Polish boats rubbish? I'd have to say no this boat is a cracking, stiff little sailer or was before she was damaged. Clearly though the quality assurance at the factory is not up to the mark.

 

[ronnier8]

Trading standards say they have looked at it to see if there was any criminal intent by the dealer and are happy that there wasn't. i.e. did they knowingly sell me a faulty boat. Trading standards will assist me to pursue a civil case for breach under the sale of goods act but small claims court only goes up to a max of £5000 and taking it through the civil court would be prohibitively expensive as i think costs could pretty soon add up to more than the value of the boat.

 

[davidwf]

Check your household insurance, they quite often have legal cover included as part of the package.

 

[matelot]

[ QUOTE ]

I think if this were my boat I would claim on my insurance then let them fight the other battles as they are the experts!

[/ QUOTE ]

Insurance doesnt cover faulty construction

 

[PeterGibbs]

Seems to me that success depends on the following - you need to have your legal ducks in a row - clear claims for the vessel, foam, unsinkable etc.

Notes on all contacts with the distributor - what admitted, denied etc.

Survey notes on damaged vessel. Costs of restoring vessel to claimed standard, consequent losses etc

Then present to a claims lawyer - not a daffy mortgage clerk -for a view on how sustainable your claim would be at court.

Then get said lawyer to write a stiff letter before action to the distributor, 14 days to reply etc. Assuming "sorry guv, can't help" letter comes back, file a claim in the county court - not a huge expense, to make clear in the unhelpful mind of the distributor that he has to help you get redress from the supplier / make amends.

Said troubled distributor will make some kind of offer and for an uplift and deliverable programme of redress, you will delay (not abandon) your case at the court.

If the distributor then goes belly up, you are, of course, lost.

I, for one, am sorry to hear your tale and wish you all sucess - it sounds like it's going to take a lot of heavy lifting.

PWG



If you are a member of the RYA, try their legal department for further advice - they are specialists.

 

[TamarMike]

If you have a strong enough case with evidence to back it up, you may have to try quite a few, but it is likely you will find some solicitor who will pursue this case on a no win no fee basis, they often take on (but also often fail to progress) some very spurious claims and at least it won't cost you anything

 

[PeteCooper]

[ QUOTE ]
Are Polish boats rubbish?? Must be asked. Certainly doenst look like the distributor is gonna step up to the bat.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Why should Polish boats be rubbish because of 1 bad example? I know of British built boats from well respected manufacturers that have had fairly major problems, in some cases taking years to resolve.

 

[dnickj]

sorry to hear your problems - i was in a similar situation a number of years ago but with a US manufactured boat sold by a UK dealer - the end result was the boat was replaced but that was after a 3 year legal battle and costs for the cae of £20k which the legal insurance covered - by the way that was the only successful claim on that insurance and the following year that insurance company removed the cover for that type of claim accross the board - anyway good luck

 

[cnh]

Ronnier - check your PMs

 

[Sailfree]

Legal action should put you back in the position of owning a 3-4 yr old 18'boat.

Therefore sue in small claim court for £4,800 the value of the seconhand boat before it sunk.

Better than £0!!

 

[lelec]

I'm friend of Viva-Yacht shipyard owner. I'm webmaster too, so i did http://en.viva-yacht.pl webpage (almost, some minor corrections to do). Only thing i can say about this accident and Viva-Yacht is, thah Viva-Yacht was found since 2008, so they cant produce boat in 2005. Last year they bought newest technology and now they are construct yacht hulls and whole saling yachts and motor boats for customers from Poland and whole Europe.

This disclaimer should clear of charges Viva-Yacht Shipyard, i hope.

Respect, and sorry for my english :/
--
Martin
Web pages
http://www.pawelec.info/