Help - broken down boat!

[stelican]

Thanks S, does that mean only a foot or so of the tank is accessible? Is there access to the middle / end?

When you open the hatch / lid the whole top of tank is accessable

 

[petem]

My 0.02 p worth
Pete dirty filters are a show stopper .
In an ideal set up it needs to be easy @ sea rolling around to access and change ---maybe quickly too .

I find the Racor type canister those with a T bar and flat lid the best .FG 500/900'series
They centrifuge the fuel and the water and crud is spun to the bottom of the glass bowl underneath , making glass bowl thing usefull as intended to spot crud .
We also have Water In Fuel (WIF) sensors too .They allow about 3 inches at the bottom of the glass before the alarm on the dash goes off .

Now the critical bit having established which kit ,is how it's fitted .
Just bear with me --
Racor FG 500. S for your boat ( mine had FG900 ,s ) need to be lower than the tank (s) or as low as possible .
This means @ sea to do a quick change
Turn the tank cock off
Sipn off the T
Lift the lid
Grab the plastic handle lift out the cartridge ( ASAP 30 micron £7-8 a piece carry 6-8 )
Insert a new one ,replace the rubber O ring on the lid and T ( o rings come with cartridge )
Now answering your Q on "bleeding " ---place the lid on start to screw the T ,but just B4 the lid closes open the tank cock
Cos it's below the fuel level -as said mounted low it floods the canister as you tighten = no air lock. = no bleeding .
Ok potential for a bit of diesel spilage in the bilge -sort that later .

As mentioned put installing Racors on the upgrade list -timescale 12/12 ish .

In the mean time dummy run a filter change and carry spares .
I have 6-8 primary 30 microns and a set 4 secondary think 2micron on the engines .

WIF too .
$hit in the fuel and especially water is an injector killer ,which can go large and seriously damage the engine ,

How ever having said all this I realise as an ex owner -- in an outdrive boat ,tight engine room there just may not be enough space to fit low racors and be able to benefit from gravity to skip bleeding ,plus reach the bleed cock under them ,nevermind be able to observe the crud in the bowls.
There's also some obscure fire regs re the glass bowls distance ,heat and what type of fire protection is fitted .
That why some are all metal --in close confined E rooms .
How ever if poss and safe do consider upgrading ?

Porto, I think the Separ KWA 50's (as I have) are the same as the Racor 500 units that you have on your boat (just with a different name). Mine also have centrifuges in the bowls, and a T-bar to clamp the lid down.

They look like this...

Fairline fitted their's with a metal bowl which I believe is to comply with BSS fire regs. Despite being obsolete, alternative bowls are available (glass with or without water sensors and metal with or without water sensors). There are also visible and audible alarm kits if someone wanted to retrofit one.

This is the write up on the Separ web site...

http://separ.co.uk/products2/diesel...r-separators/separ-filters/63-separ-kwa-range

There's a few point here that caught my eye (my highlighting):

When the filter element is replaced, it should be steadily rotated while being carefully withdrawn from the housing. The new element is inserted by reversing this procedure. In addition to the standard 30 micron, there are options for both 10 and 60 micron replaceable elements. After replacing the element, always check the compression seal and cover seal (and replace if necessary). It is not necessary to air-bleed the system after draining water and dirt of after changing the element.

The seals required for an element change are integral, in other words, the element itself has the required seals. However, when servicing the KWA filter we recommend that the bowl and lid seals are inspected in case they need replacing. Biocides in the fuel, higher bio-diesel mixes and high water levels in the storage tank can cause the fuel to have a higher acidity level. This will mean the seals will require more frequent replacing.

The filters are in a very accessible position (bolted to the engine room bulkhead). I suspect they could actually be changed without climbing down into the engine room (in an emergency), by lying down on the cockpit floor reaching down into the cockpit. They're quite low, presumably below the tank, so longer arms than mine might be required.

So it would appear that hanging them is as simple as shutting off the fuel supply, removing the lids and filter, top up with any lost fuel, then re-open the fuel supply. Or am I missing something as another post seems to suggest that the filter should be drained before removing the filter (which might mean less risk of contamination)?

 

[petem]

When you open the hatch / lid the whole top of tank is accessable

Thanks S.

Pete

 

[Portofino]

Pete -post # 62 --- all looks good -OK in my book .
Just keep a few sets of spares Om board and consider adding an aditve @ fuelling .

I think you ave been unlucky as others have said ,un used recently and few days- after a grotmar etc etc

 

[Questor]

Porto, I think the Separ KWA 50's (as I have) are the same as the Racor 500 units that you have on your boat (just with a different name). Mine also have centrifuges in the bowls, and a T-bar to clamp the lid down.

They look like this...

Fairline fitted their's with a metal bowl which I believe is to comply with BSS fire regs. Despite being obsolete, alternative bowls are available (glass with or without water sensors and metal with or without water sensors). There are also visible and audible alarm kits if someone wanted to retrofit one.

This is the write up on the Separ web site...

http://separ.co.uk/products2/diesel...r-separators/separ-filters/63-separ-kwa-range

There's a few point here that caught my eye (my highlighting):





The filters are in a very accessible position (bolted to the engine room bulkhead). I suspect they could actually be changed without climbing down into the engine room (in an emergency), by lying down on the cockpit floor reaching down into the cockpit. They're quite low, presumably below the tank, so longer arms than mine might be required.

So it would appear that hanging them is as simple as shutting off the fuel supply, removing the lids and filter, top up with any lost fuel, then re-open the fuel supply. Or am I missing something as another post seems to suggest that the filter should be drained before removing the filter (which might mean less risk of contamination)?

Here's the idiot proof method of changing the primary filters on a Targa 34.

Remove the seat circular seat cushion.

Lift out the circular panel in the floor underneath, allowing access to the fuel cocks.

Turn off both fuel cocks.

Open engine hatch.

Get in engine bay with an empty coffee jar and drain off any water and a little diesel into the coffee jar by undoing the yellow taps underneath the filter assemblies.

Undo the "T" bolt on the top of the filters, and remove the lids. You want the diesel level to be about an inch below the tops (hence point above about draining off a little diesel). You may need to drain off a little more to get it to about this level.

Retrieve the little handles on the filters and twist them as you carefully lift them out. This way you won't make any mess.

Then insert new filters. Twist and press down carefully, so as not to splash diesel everywhere.

Replace the large rubber O rings in the lids with the ones supplied with the new filters.

Place the lids back onto the Separ units.

Check the rubber O ring on the "T" bolts. If fine, just refit.

Do not replace them with the O rings supplied with the filters, as these are a circular profile, whereas the ones you need are square. The circular ones will leak.

New ones are available from Keypart at about £3.00 a pop.

Tighten up the "T" bolts.

Turn fuel cocks back on and replace floor panel and seat.

Start engines, and put on a few revs for a short while.

Check filters for any leaks.

Close engine hatch.

Job done. No topping up. No bleeding. No mess.

 

[petem]

Bit of an update. Engineer came to check the tank today and says that the bottom looks pretty clear (some sediment but nothing abnormal). Certainly no caking or evidence of bug. He did say that the fuel lines look a bit perished which could cause similar symptoms (if they're letting in air).

Filters were changed as a precaution (at my request) and system bled. Old ones looked pretty clean.

The injectors are being tested and I'll have the fuel lines checked and replaced when the engines are serviced the week after next.

Jez is on board tomorrow with one of my partners so I will see how they get on.

 

[rafiki_]

Bit of an update. Engineer came to check the tank today and says that the bottom looks pretty clear (some sediment but nothing abnormal). Certainly no caking or evidence of bug. He did say that the fuel lines look a bit perished which could cause similar symptoms (if they're letting in air).



Jez is on board tomorrow with one of my partners so I will see how they get on.

Very brave Pete

 

[petem]

Very brave Pete

Don't worry, I've taken extensive photos of it in its current pristine state .

 

[rafiki_]

Don't worry, I've taken extensive photos of it in its current pristine state .

:encouragement:

 

[petem]

Just had a call from Jez. Boat was running fine in marina and cruising nicely at 30kts up the Solent.

BUT, as soon as he tried to adjust the starboard drive trim the engine started to splutter. Same happened when he engaged the A/P. If he takes his hands off the switches it work OK again.

We've had trouble with the s/b drive trim before (wasn't working) but when I re-seated the relay connectors it seem to start working again.

Any ideas? Earth perhaps?

 

[jrudge]

Poor batteries / electrical connection. Load drops volts to engine ecu.

 

[petem]

Engineer thinks could be failing alternator.

I've suggested they switch off all unnecessary power drains; fridges / blower / A/P.

 

[petem]

Are the alternators belt driven?

 

[[2068]]

Are the alternators belt driven?

Yes - it's worth checking both the alternator belt, and the smaller flat belt that drives the pulley.

 

[julians]

How are the batteries arranged? Does it have seperate starting batteries and service batteries. Is the drive trim powered from the starting batteries or the service batteries?

Im guessing the trim uses the same batteries as the engine does for starting and running, in which case it could be either poor batteries/connection or a faulty alternator (or connection of alt to batteries)

How old are the batteries? If 5+ years then theyre probably shot and due for replacement

 

[Portofino]

There's an alternator warning light ,bit basic but nether the less .
Nice to know if it comes on just with complete failure or broken belt or if the charge drops below a predetermined piont ?

Also wether Alts just go from working to dead in which case the light will come on
Or decay slowley in which case the light will eventually come on like a flicker with a loose belt until you rev it .

Yep whole wiring system needs a thorough check along with the batts and if poss alt check as well .

 

[petem]

How are the batteries arranged? Does it have seperate starting batteries and service batteries. Is the drive trim powered from the starting batteries or the service batteries?

Im guessing the trim uses the same batteries as the engine does for starting and running, in which case it could be either poor batteries/connection or a faulty alternator (or connection of alt to batteries)

How old are the batteries? If 5+ years then theyre probably shot and due for replacement

I've looked at the wiring diagrams and they don't show the ECU, power trim or steering pump being powered from the batteries, could they be powered directly from the alternators?

Batteries are only a couple of years old. Charging at 14v when on the plane.

 

[petem]

There's an alternator warning light ,bit basic but nether the less .
Nice to know if it comes on just with complete failure or broken belt or if the charge drops below a predetermined piont ?

Also wether Alts just go from working to dead in which case the light will come on
Or decay slowley in which case the light will eventually come on like a flicker with a loose belt until you rev it .

Yep whole wiring system needs a thorough check along with the batts and if poss alt check as well .

No warning lights displayed.

 

[rafiki_]

Engineer thinks could be failing alternator.

I've suggested they switch off all unnecessary power drains; fridges / blower / A/P.

Struggling a bit with this Pete. Problems would be more obvious straight after start-up as the alternator has to bring the starter battery back up to capacity while supplying power to the engine and other services. Adjusting a drive trim is unlikely to give a "show-stopping" reduction in voltage. Sounds more like a sensor or connector issue when trim drive is demanded.
On my Cats, if the alternator belt slips or other alt problems then the tacho shows zero. Cant comment on your green engines though.

 

[Whitelighter]

Little update - as Paul says, tacho drops to zero. Feels like all power is cut to the engine, so ecu, supercharger etc.
I can do it on demand now. Belts looked ok this morning but going to have an in depth look after lunch.

Volt meters showing 14v on the plan, 10-11v when ticking in to lymington. I suspect it's a bit more complicated than just alternator failure but I am convinced it's electric not fuel related