kireonriley
New member
can anyone help i have an m.g.30 which suffers from very heavy weather helm on all points of sail
heavy weather helm
- Thread starter kireonriley
- Start date
graham
Well-known member
Never sailed an mg30 but the usual reason is mast rake. Leaning the mast further forward should help by slackening backstay and any shrouds aft of the mast and tightening the forestay.
Presuming that the sails are not totally worn out are you adjusting ther genoa car positions correctly?If the sheeting angle is too far fore or aft it will depower the genoa creating more weather helm and slowing you down.
Generally going to windward the sheeting angle should approximately bisect the angle of the foot of the sail and the leach.Better to be a tiny bit too far forward than too far aft.
Looking at the mainsail is it very full? You may find the boat will sail flatter and faster upwind by putting a lot of tension on the kicking strap to flatten the sail and letting the mainsheet car go down to the bottom of the track so the boom is out at a bit more angle.
Some boats need a reef in the main much earlier than you would think to keep the boat balanced as the wind freshens.
If you have an adjustable backstay try some more tension on it to bend the top of the mast more and flatten the mainsail .
Try and collar someone who does a lot of racing to come out with you and help set the boat up a bit better.Better still enter some club races and try to learn from what the leaders are doing.
Best of luck Graham
Presuming that the sails are not totally worn out are you adjusting ther genoa car positions correctly?If the sheeting angle is too far fore or aft it will depower the genoa creating more weather helm and slowing you down.
Generally going to windward the sheeting angle should approximately bisect the angle of the foot of the sail and the leach.Better to be a tiny bit too far forward than too far aft.
Looking at the mainsail is it very full? You may find the boat will sail flatter and faster upwind by putting a lot of tension on the kicking strap to flatten the sail and letting the mainsheet car go down to the bottom of the track so the boom is out at a bit more angle.
Some boats need a reef in the main much earlier than you would think to keep the boat balanced as the wind freshens.
If you have an adjustable backstay try some more tension on it to bend the top of the mast more and flatten the mainsail .
Try and collar someone who does a lot of racing to come out with you and help set the boat up a bit better.Better still enter some club races and try to learn from what the leaders are doing.
Best of luck Graham
JOHNOO
New member
I have found that weather helm is seldom caused by the imbalance of the rig to the hull. The most common factor is drag which can be created by a dirty bottom or a three bladed prop. Do you have one of these props?
graham
Well-known member
Almost every cruising boat has a 3 bladed prop ,do they all have heavy helms??
JOHNOO
New member
Very few good sailing sailing boats have 3 bladed props most of them have 2 blades. The ones that sail well have folding or feathering. If you want to test the effect of drag on weatherhelm try towing a small bucket when going to windward, the effect is quite dramatic.
G
Guest
Guest
It may not be caused by imbalance of rig to the hull, but surely imbalance of foresail to main is the primary way of steering a boat with no rudder ( or is that something I learnt in my Enterprise). Weather Helm is just this is it not?
graham
Well-known member
I have sailed on lots of boats with 3 bladed props.I totally agree the prop will affect performance under sail BUT if the boat is set up right it need not suffer a heavy helm just beacause of the prop.
To say that the balance of the rig does not affect the helm is complete nonsence.
Marks comment about steering a boat by sail trim proves the point in a nutshell.The same principal applies to an enterprise as it does to a any size yacht.
Are there any mg30 owners out there who could offer real advise based on first hand experience of the boat in question??
To say that the balance of the rig does not affect the helm is complete nonsence.
Marks comment about steering a boat by sail trim proves the point in a nutshell.The same principal applies to an enterprise as it does to a any size yacht.
Are there any mg30 owners out there who could offer real advise based on first hand experience of the boat in question??
aod
New member
Surely it cannot suffer weather helm on ALL points of sail. If it's upwind on both tacks I would lay my money on Graham every time. If it's down wind as well there is something fundamentaly wrong with the trim of the boat. You could probably get a quick answer by taking a competent racing man/woman out who should look at everything and be able to answer your question. You haven't got an anvil in the forepeak have you!
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Anvils and things
That's my thought, too. Weather helm upwind could be caused by mast rake, but not downwind. It's not just stiff bearings, is it? When you bear away do you release the main as far as necessary? If not the rudder will be fighting the main to get the boat downwind. Even so, I have some difficulty in imagining weather helm on a broad reach or a run, except on a boat with very high performance. If the trim of the boat is very much down by the bow the rudder will struggle to get enough bite on the water, so that can be another cause.
I would ensure the bearings are OK first, then concentrate on sail trim. Assuming you don't have an anvil in the forecabin, that is. Or 100 metres of 5/8 chain.
That's my thought, too. Weather helm upwind could be caused by mast rake, but not downwind. It's not just stiff bearings, is it? When you bear away do you release the main as far as necessary? If not the rudder will be fighting the main to get the boat downwind. Even so, I have some difficulty in imagining weather helm on a broad reach or a run, except on a boat with very high performance. If the trim of the boat is very much down by the bow the rudder will struggle to get enough bite on the water, so that can be another cause.
I would ensure the bearings are OK first, then concentrate on sail trim. Assuming you don't have an anvil in the forecabin, that is. Or 100 metres of 5/8 chain.
extravert
New member
That's a pretty comprehensive reply that I agree with.
The only thing I could add is that weather helm usually increases as your angle of heel increases. (This is because the underwater shape of the hull goes banana shaped as you lean over). Most modern design boats go better if the angle of heel is kept below about 20 degrees. Try to keep your angle of heel within this range especially when beating. If you watch your angle on a clinometer found on the bottom of some compasses you will find 20 degrees is really not much. If you are getting water anywhere near your toerails you are probably way too far over, and you will be fighting the tiller to counteract the banana shape.
Excessive weather helm is not just a problem you suffer from. Look at pictures in magazines of boats beating, and where you can see the helm, it's usually way to weather.
The only thing I could add is that weather helm usually increases as your angle of heel increases. (This is because the underwater shape of the hull goes banana shaped as you lean over). Most modern design boats go better if the angle of heel is kept below about 20 degrees. Try to keep your angle of heel within this range especially when beating. If you watch your angle on a clinometer found on the bottom of some compasses you will find 20 degrees is really not much. If you are getting water anywhere near your toerails you are probably way too far over, and you will be fighting the tiller to counteract the banana shape.
Excessive weather helm is not just a problem you suffer from. Look at pictures in magazines of boats beating, and where you can see the helm, it's usually way to weather.
kireonriley
New member
dear johnoo yes i do have athree bladed prop can it realy be so simple
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Off the wall thought
Is the rudder OK?
Having sailed dinghies with the rudder not completely down, one very obvious effect is weather helm. Has your rudder had a bang which might have bent or twisted it, its stock or its mountings in some way?
Is the rudder OK?
Having sailed dinghies with the rudder not completely down, one very obvious effect is weather helm. Has your rudder had a bang which might have bent or twisted it, its stock or its mountings in some way?
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: Off the wall thought
And a very good one. A very likely answer.
And a very good one. A very likely answer.
JOHNOO
New member
As I said before drag will slow the boat down which in turn increases leeway makes you heel more and ends up by giving you weather helm. Trust Me my wife does'nt!!
JOHNOO
New member
Hi Kireonriley,
Yes it is that simple. Change it for a 2 bladed or even better a folding one, you will not believe the difference it will make to your boat.
Yes it is that simple. Change it for a 2 bladed or even better a folding one, you will not believe the difference it will make to your boat.
