Have someone got problems when they can't prove VAT status?

[Sta]

I bought a boat a few years ago which I intend to use for sailing abroad. There were one thing I missed to check when I bought it: If VAT have been paid. I thought that as long as the boat always have been owned by citizens in EU there should not be any problems, but when I read more it seems to be, for example here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ailing-your-pleasure-craft-to-and-from-the-uk.

Have someone heard about that anyone have had any problems when they couldn't prove that the first owner paid VAT? So far I haven´t seen anyone write that they heard about it, just read discussions on YBW if they check it or not (they do according to some). Somebody say that you will not get any trouble if you have an old boat, but if you come with a new boat and can't prove it you will get trouble.

There is an exception to the rule that you have to be able to prove VAT status. If the boat was launched before 1985 and was in EU 31 December 1992 (https://keystonelaw.co.uk/keynotes/the-vat-problem-top-tips-for-yacht-buyers-and-owners) you don't need to prove it, but I can't prove were the boat was that date either.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I can only give you my experience, in over 40 years sail all over Europe can't thing of a country other then Sweden we not sailed to have we ever been ask for to show VAT been paid or come across anyone who has.
Now if in the future this will change with brexit is another thing ,

 

[macd]

In addition to Vic's experience, which is mirrored by many of us, if it's 30+ plus years old no-one will care, anyway. If you're still concerned, the possibilities for the creation of convincing historic documents are endless...

 

[nortada]

In addition to Vic's experience, which is mirrored by many of us, if it's 30+ plus years old no-one will care, anyway. If you're still concerned, the possibilities for the creation of convincing historic documents are endless...

No need for creating a convincing historic document, which could get you into trouble big time.

Just contact HMRC Salford and get a T2L. Might be useful if in Portugal.

And who knows where else post Brexit

For full details go to https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lagosnavigators/the-complete-t2l-story-t1867.html and to get the form (and advice on how to complete it) go to https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lag...moir-british-flagged-vessels-t1885.html#p9645

 

[jimbaerselman]

Read http://www.jimbsail.info/going-foreign/docs-and-VAT for a fairly full story of the paperwork needed to cruise around Europe.

As rightly pointed out, very few checks about VAT are made. Two exceptions are Portugal and Croatia. In both, a Customs endorsed import form (T2L) may be required.

No, don't consider forgery. There's a very effective cross checking system within the EU customs zone.

JimB

 

[macd]

No, don't consider forgery. There's a very effective cross checking system within the EU customs zone.

...for where a boat happened to be on 31.12.92? I very much doubt it, Jim.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Read http://www.jimbsail.info/going-foreign/docs-and-VAT for a fairly full story of the paperwork needed to cruise around Europe.

As rightly pointed out, very few checks about VAT are made. Two exceptions are Portugal and Croatia. In both, a Customs endorsed import form (T2L) may be required.

No, don't consider forgery. There's a very effective cross checking system within the EU customs zone.

JimB

Jim we had three season in Croatia the last one was last year , again as I said we never been asked ,
for what I hear from other people re the TL2 it only been boats that are based in Croatia that have been asked for the TL2 , I can name 9 boats there this year who are cruising and I am in contact with and none have said they had a problem .
The only problem there is time and time again people will anchor without checking in first and then they get caught and fine, this happen mostly to boat with AIS .

 

[jimbaerselman]

Mac; sorry, context not completely clear. I intended "don't consider forgery when preparing a T2L declaration". I'm aware of at least two people who endorsed their own T2L, who had them refused as not properly authenticated.

Vic; Croatia decided to delegate the T2L checks to marinas. Boats taking out a longer term marina contracts have been asked to produce T2L forms. I believe, but don't know for certain, that this was anticipating the probability that these boats would be staying within Croatia for longer than 180 days - and the EU customs code then allows that such boats be "imported" - without necessarily changing flag.

 

[RupertW]

Croatia stopped boats at sea including ours in the year they joined the EU specifically to check VAT status. If you were heading out even to an outlying Croatian island then stopping was likely. I haven’t been stopped since though.

 

[AndrewB]

The time that dubious VAT status is most likely to affect you is when you come to sell the yacht. Some buyers may expect the price to be as if VAT were unpaid, i.e. 20% (or whatever) less than that of a comparable proven VAT-paid yacht.

Even if the yacht was built before 1985, and in the EU on the qualifying date, an earlier owner should have obtained a 'SAD' (Single Administrative Document), without which the VAT status will still remain questionable.

A valid T2L will not prove a substitute in this situation: it is not (as far as I can see) proof of VAT status.

Incidentally, I'm in the same position. I have never been asked to prove VAT status in 30 years of cruising in Europe, not even in Portugal or Croatia; nor has my T2L ever been checked.

 

[Tranona]

The time that dubious VAT status is most likely to affect you is when you come to sell the yacht. Some buyers may expect the price to be as if VAT were unpaid, i.e. 20% (or whatever) less than that of a comparable proven VAT-paid yacht.

In the normal course of events this is a complete fallacy and dishonest of a buyer to believe that a boat is worth less just because there is no evidence of VAT paid. There is no legal requirement to prove that VAT has been paid, nor is there any mechanism for demanding payment of VAT just because there is no evidence UNLESS there is evidence that the boat has been involved in a chargeable event where VAT has not been accounted for correctly.

The only two common (but not often encountered) situations are if a boat has been outside the EU and imported or if the boat has at some time been owned by a VAT registered entity and then sold to a private buyer. A boat that has a continuous record of being in the EU and owned by private citizens does not fall into either category. Of course not all boats have a good recorded history, but the lack of records makes it even more unlikely that there will be any question raised about VAT payment.

Remember VAT issues are the responsibility of the state where the last transaction took place, so if no issues were raised then there are no issues.