Kukri
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough the offspring were "fishing" off the pontoon in Ipswich wet dock a year or two back when one of them decided to spear fish with a boathook - he actualy did catch an annunition box!
Has your anchor ever dragged? Tell us.
- Thread starter Sans Bateau
- Start date
Funnily enough the offspring were "fishing" off the pontoon in Ipswich wet dock a year or two back when one of them decided to spear fish with a boathook - he actualy did catch an annunition box!
Fat Freddie
New Member
I would suggest that the problem is not with your anchor or your scope of chain but is due to the nature of the bottom in new town creek, The bottom there is very thin mud with about the consistency of porrige. My guess is that in over 20kn of wind any anchor is likely to drag there. I have an oversize spade anchor and 10mm chain on my lightweight 34' catamaran and I have dragged in Newtown and that is the only place I have dragged.
One thing to try which worked for me was putting a 28lb on the anchor chain 5 metres from the anchor, that held in Newtown in nearly 30kn of wind.
One thing to try which worked for me was putting a 28lb on the anchor chain 5 metres from the anchor, that held in Newtown in nearly 30kn of wind.
tudorsailor
Well-Known Member
When calculating how much chain to let out, not everyone I know adds freeboard to the water depth. It obviously is more significant in shallower depths. I convinced SWMBO about this when I showed her the diagram from the Fortress I bought for a kedge. It is very clear that one lets out 5 times the total distance from the bow roller to the sea bed and not just the water depth. On reading the posts above about letting out chain once the snubber is set, seems logical as it effectively reduces the "depth" and flattens out the pull of the chain.
I have just bought a new anchor (begins with R) and hope not to drag as regularly as I did with my CQR on the incredibly hard "sand" in the bays around Mallorca
Tudorsailor
I have just bought a new anchor (begins with R) and hope not to drag as regularly as I did with my CQR on the incredibly hard "sand" in the bays around Mallorca
Tudorsailor
PeterR
Well-Known Member
How many times have I dragged? I've lost count so I'm obviously no good at anchoring. My technique has always been by the book - find a nice clean patch - if you can see- slow drop of chain to avoid a pile - dig the anchor well in with the engine and give as much scope as the surroundings will allow. Results:
Anchored at the head of Pyefleet Creek on the ebb and woke up much further up the creek than I've ever been before or since. Anchor was a Danforth which I recovered with the flukes clogged with weed which it must have picked up when the flood started.
Numerous 40ft+ Sunsail boats in Greece and Turkey all with large Deltas and lots of heavy chain have always worked well moored stern to in harbour but have frequently dragged when we have anchored in sand and there has been a windshift. On one occasion I was snorkelling directly above the anchor when the drag started and the anchor simply broke out and skidded across the sand showing no signs of resetting.
This summer we had a Sunsail boat out of Palermo. It had a large Danforth but what I failed to notice was that was that one of the flukes was slightly bent. It proved almost impossible to anchor without dragging. Fortunately, it was calm and the most effective technique was to dump all the chain on board straight on top of the anchor in one big pile. Mooring was safer as all the harbours had lazy lines but they charged 60 euros for no toilets, showers or electricity for a 43footer. In season it would have been 100 euros! I began to suspect they supplied duff anchors to encourage mooring. On return to Palermo I noticed that nearly all the charter boats from all companies had Danforths and at least 50% had bent flukes.
My advice: Stay away from Danforths under any circumstances and avoid Deltas where you might have to anchor in sand although they seem to work OK in mud. Set an alarm for the turn of the tide and be alert to any changes in wind direction.
I personally now use a 16 Kg Manson Supreme with 60m of 10mm chain on a 34 ft boat - with a 16 Kg Delta as a secondary bower. That combination has never dragged – so far.
Anchored at the head of Pyefleet Creek on the ebb and woke up much further up the creek than I've ever been before or since. Anchor was a Danforth which I recovered with the flukes clogged with weed which it must have picked up when the flood started.
Numerous 40ft+ Sunsail boats in Greece and Turkey all with large Deltas and lots of heavy chain have always worked well moored stern to in harbour but have frequently dragged when we have anchored in sand and there has been a windshift. On one occasion I was snorkelling directly above the anchor when the drag started and the anchor simply broke out and skidded across the sand showing no signs of resetting.
This summer we had a Sunsail boat out of Palermo. It had a large Danforth but what I failed to notice was that was that one of the flukes was slightly bent. It proved almost impossible to anchor without dragging. Fortunately, it was calm and the most effective technique was to dump all the chain on board straight on top of the anchor in one big pile. Mooring was safer as all the harbours had lazy lines but they charged 60 euros for no toilets, showers or electricity for a 43footer. In season it would have been 100 euros! I began to suspect they supplied duff anchors to encourage mooring. On return to Palermo I noticed that nearly all the charter boats from all companies had Danforths and at least 50% had bent flukes.
My advice: Stay away from Danforths under any circumstances and avoid Deltas where you might have to anchor in sand although they seem to work OK in mud. Set an alarm for the turn of the tide and be alert to any changes in wind direction.
I personally now use a 16 Kg Manson Supreme with 60m of 10mm chain on a 34 ft boat - with a 16 Kg Delta as a secondary bower. That combination has never dragged – so far.
noelex
Well-Known Member
Yes a couple of times. Even had a boat that hit me while motoring around the anchorage abuse me. Woke up in the morning to an almighty bang and a solo yachsman who managed to hit me while motoring around the anchorage in preparation to droping his anchor. Could not quite see how he possibly thought it was my fault. Luckily my aluminium boat had barely a scratch.
These encounters have been very much the exception however, cruising yachtsmen tend to help each other out. Even with the above incident a skipper from a nearby yacht rowed over with a flask of Scotch. It was 10am in the morning and he said “I thought you might need this” I did.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
I fully agree.
Yakker55
Member
Sure did - and in Newtown as well.
Things were a bit tight, but we found a good spot directly ahead of a sailing boat. We anchored and then drifted back stopping some 30 metres ahead or him. I was woken in the night to find him ahead or us, and his stern hitting our bow.
It was very disorienting, and to this day I have not quite worked out the geometry, but he was quite convinced it was my fault that his stern had hit my bow.
The only clue I had was when I asked him how much chain he had let out. "90m" he said, "Just like I always do".
Clearly he wasn't going to drag with that, but in a crowded anchorage perhaps not the most courteous thing to do.
dulcibella
Well-Known Member
Usually lots of scope needed for windy nights in Newtown but seldom the opportunity to lay it thanks to the crowds. If the wind has no North in it, I'd prefer to anchor off the beach under Hamstead point (just outside the Newtown entrance) where the heavy clay provides such good holding that breaking the hook out in the morning is the main problem (not to mention scraping the clods of clay off afterward).
oldfatgit
Well-Known Member
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Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Yup ear goes:
Let out you normal scope and attach you snubber in the normal fashion. THEN let out more chain so it loops down behind the snubber. let out enough to be just less than the depth of water.
Sorry this will probably win the worst ever attempt at posting a sketch in this forum but hopefully you can make it out. The snubber is the darker bit hanging over the bow.
Horatio, like you I picked this up as a tip off this site last year. I note that your snubber length is quite short. Not having tried the system yet, I was going to use a snubber of about 15 meters of 16 mm Octoplat, so the bight of chain hanging down will droop from 15 meters ahead of the bows. I suppose that there may be a problem on a rocky bottom of getting the chain caught up,- especially with coral. (not that that will be a broblem in the Med).
My original thoughts on this were that the bight of chain should actually drag along the bottom.
HoratioHB
Well-Known Member
You'll soon get fed up with the sound of the chain rumbling along the bottom, especially if you sleep up front. My snubber was 5m of nylon which meant that even with a good tug in a gust it rarely pulled clear up out of the water especially with the weight of the bight of chain hanging behind it. Setting the bight at just less than the depth of water seemed to cut down the tendency to sail to and fro quite a lot but to me its main benefit was effectively increasing the rode without having to swing in a bigger circle.
I would have thought that 15 m of snubber is too long as it could end up being almost all of your rode! especially in shallow water.
I am sure that with experimentation you will come to yor own solution.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
I once rescued an AWB in Newtown. He had set his anchor on chain and attached a tripping line to the bow. Unfortunately the tripping line was shorter than the chain when the wind gusted
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
If you are going to drag, then.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1sBvffuR_E
This was in Gib, 2008.
Just before last Christmas, one of the bunkering tankers dragged in the night and ended up on the beach at La Linea. Another tanker from the same company went to tow it off and, well, ran aground. Imagine how impressed the Spanish were! I understand there are new rules in place in the Bay for heavy weather.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1sBvffuR_E
This was in Gib, 2008.
Just before last Christmas, one of the bunkering tankers dragged in the night and ended up on the beach at La Linea. Another tanker from the same company went to tow it off and, well, ran aground. Imagine how impressed the Spanish were! I understand there are new rules in place in the Bay for heavy weather.
KevB
Well-Known Member
Last season at Newtown Creek. We arrived a couple of hours before high tide and found a spot amongst the other boats, had lunch and pottered about for a few hours before deciding to go for a bike ride.
We took the bikes by tender over to the jetty and rode off for about an hour, when we returned and rounded the corner the boat had gone!! It took a full ten seconds of heart pounding panic before I noticed it had drifted about 50 meters from where we left it.
Thankfully a yottie had grabbed hold of it as it passed his boat. When we raised the anchor a piece of a rotting tree trunk was wedged in it. The anchor was a Bruce.
Thankfully it hadn't bumped into any other boats on it's unmanned journey which was a feat in itself as there were a lot in there at the time.
We took the bikes by tender over to the jetty and rode off for about an hour, when we returned and rounded the corner the boat had gone!! It took a full ten seconds of heart pounding panic before I noticed it had drifted about 50 meters from where we left it.
Thankfully a yottie had grabbed hold of it as it passed his boat. When we raised the anchor a piece of a rotting tree trunk was wedged in it. The anchor was a Bruce.
Thankfully it hadn't bumped into any other boats on it's unmanned journey which was a feat in itself as there were a lot in there at the time.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
On one visit to Newtown a couple of years ago a young couple with a very young child aboard had anchored their Benny First 31 (?) newish. They had mainly rope cable, and as the wind and tide had contrived against them the boat had pirouetted about the cable and gradually wound itself around the keel!
It took the poor bloke ages to sort out the mess!
Time for an anchoring horror stories thread I think.
It took the poor bloke ages to sort out the mess!
Time for an anchoring horror stories thread I think.
peterb
Well-Known Member
Spent ages once trying to get our CQR to set in the Deben. In the end pulled it right up and took the baked bean tin off the point of the plough.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Mmm... I must be missing something here.
I really don't see how the bight length can make any difference, unless:
a) it's long enough to drag along the bottom, as Chris_Robb suggested, or
b) it's too short to fully exploit the whole snubber length.
With anything in between, there is no difference in the geometry of the boat movements.
Or if there is, I can't understand where it comes from.
I mean, I understand that the longer the bight, the higher the chain drag through the water and the lower the boat weight, but I'd expect both these effects to be negligible in comparison to all the others (overall boat weight/windage/drag, scope, chain drag on the bottom, anchor weight and shape).
So, what am I missing?
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fireball
Well-Known Member
Your missing the additional drag through the water.
HoratioHB
Well-Known Member
Don't think you're missing anything. I can't tell you the theory in absolute terms just that it works on my boat, I guess as the bow starts to shear to one side the water drag of the bight slows it down - its only a small effect but it does noticeably reduce the amount of sailing and shearing.
I spent a happy season experimenting to get the best out of it in my boat so why not just have a try and see if it works for you and your boat.
As I said the main reason for doing it is the extra weight holding the anchor chain down without having to increase the rode length - just a bit of free extra security. Anchor chain has no effect when its in the locker!
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Marsupial
Well-Known Member
After dragging and dragging the anchor was retrieved, when dropped it was a CQR, when we retrieved it it was a shank of a CQR! The pin had broken, all in light winds with a snappy 26 hanging on it.