Has the quality of those out sailing dropped to marine equivalent of camper van sailors

[geem]

Another 'all the gear and no idea' boat just arrived that cant anchor. Why would you put out a small amount of chain then pull on it to see if it drags? Why wouldn't you put out all the chain you need for the depth of water then see if it drags? 62ft Oyster. Lots of shouting and lots of people all behaving like they had never anchored before? two attempts so far in great holding?

 

[Bobc]

Another 'all the gear and no idea' boat just arrived that cant anchor. Why would you put out a small amount of chain then pull on it to see if it drags? Why wouldn't you put out all the chain you need for the depth of water then see if it drags? 62ft Oyster. Lots of shouting and lots of people all behaving like they had never anchored before? two attempts so far in great holding?

Hmmm. Avoid anchoring near Oysters then? They seem to be somewhat of a common denominator.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Has the quality of those out sailing dropped to marine equivalent of camper van sailors

It has certainly become easier and cheaper to get on the water and go sailing these days, compared to when I started, late 70's, and the mystique and perception of difficulty has changed significantly since. There was a real sense of chronic unease back then, that had to be addressed because sever consequences were a more likely outcome. Today, we have lower cost boats, an abundance of second hand boats, YouTube that tells us everything and instant communication. The mystique is gone, the difficulty has been reduced significantly when it comes to navigation and YouTube has lots of videos of failure where everyone survives after stubbing their toe on a cleat.

Making a landfall, whether crossing and ocean, sea or smaller body of water was a big deal and generally folks want to know where they are as the landfall is approached. In the past, we used all sorts of tricks if a fix was not apparent to narrow down the circle of uncertainty, because our chronic unease was high. Today, there is no chronic unease, just look at the plotter, we know where we are. It wasn't just navigation chronic unease, it was all aspects of seamanship, water supply, electrical power management, sea legs from actually having to walk on deck to do something, maintaining and weather eye, out of coms* et cetera.

I guess, today, my perception is that risk has been normalised, chronic unease is what you get after too many beers and chips, the majority of leisure sailors survive and YouTube means its all side boob, sun and fun, hence many take it up the sport maybe with less training than they should have, after all NGA always hold these days.

However, it's nothing new, camper van sailor syndrome. Reading the likes of Total Loss shows that twats transcend the ages.

*I used to plan my clients cruises by phone booth locations to keep in touch with my then girlfriend, now wife.

 

[Graham376]

This boat now makes 4 boats on this well marked reef in a little over 1 week. What is wrong with people? Can they not see the difference in water colour and the fact there is a reef on the chartplotter? The level of incompetent is staggering

Look on the bright side, it's good entertainment for those of us watching the antics Weekly entertainment near our moorings, folks come up at high water and try to take short cuts over the salt flats or, if they're French drop anchor with a bundle of chain, disappear ashore and boat drags onto the banks.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Another 'all the gear and no idea' boat just arrived that cant anchor. Why would you put out a small amount of chain then pull on it to see if it drags? Why wouldn't you put out all the chain you need for the depth of water then see if it drags? 62ft Oyster. Lots of shouting and lots of people all behaving like they had never anchored before? two attempts so far in great holding?

Are they just more visible because they are a 62' Oyster ?

In my early days I did lots of things like that. But because I only had a manky 20' boat I probably felt that I was
morally superior .

 

[Wansworth]

Banality would seem to be the keyword

 

[geem]

Look on the bright side, it's good entertainment for those of us watching the antics Weekly entertainment near our moorings, folks come up at high water and try to take short cuts over the salt flats or, if they're French drop anchor with a bundle of chain, disappear ashore and boat drags onto the banks.

Just had the second ARC boat to come in that can't anchor. It's a big shiny Outremer. Great holding here but 3rd attempt so far at a anchoring. Part of the problem seems to be that none of these boats free drop their anchor. It's so slow to get the anchor on the bottom that they have probably picked up a ton of seagrass on the anchor as they drift backwards towing the anchor along the seabed. Free dropping the anchor so it hits the bottom quickly would likely make all the difference. It blowing 20kts. Nothing unusual about that in the Caribbean but so many people simple down have the basic skills to anchor. Glad that they are not in front of me?

 

[Zagato]

A sort of friend (my long term mechanic, important they feel you are their friend!) called last week to say he had done a dinghy course years ago and wanted to know if he needs a licence to buy and sail a yacht as he wants to sail to the Med! Could I suggest a nice looking boat where he doesn't have to pull out the beds... oh dear! ? I told him to go and crew for someone first (not me of course ?) having described how just getting out of Chichester Harbour can kill you if you don't know, what you don't know!

 

[geem]

A sort of friend (my long term mechanic, important they feel you are their friend!) called last week to say he had done a dinghy course years ago and wanted to know if he needs a licence to buy and sail a yacht as he wants to sail to the Med! Could I suggest a nice looking boat where he doesn't have to pull out the beds... oh dear! ? I told him to go and crew for someone first (not me of course ?) having described how just getting out of Chichester Harbour can kill you if you don't know, what you don't know!

I like the term 'unconsciously incompetent'. They don't know that they don't know?

 

[Bajansailor]

I like the term 'unconsciously incompetent'. They don't know that they don't know?

Ignorance can be so blissful!

 

[Stemar]

Ignorance can be so blissful!

Indeed, until it suddenly isn't, and shortly afterwards, if you're lucky, there's another boat on the market.

Part of the problem seems to be that none of these boats free drop their anchor. It's so slow to get the anchor on the bottom that they have probably picked up a ton of seagrass on the anchor as they drift backwards towing the anchor along the seabed.

Very interested to read that. Anchoring on my old boat was all done by hand - lay out the necessary scope on deck and make off the rode on the Samson post, then let it out until it touches the bottom and pay out the rest just slowly enough to avoid a heap on top of the anchor. The new one has a windlass but, without really knowing why, I just didn't fell comfortable using it to lower the rode, so I just do the same as on the old boat

 

[NormanS]

My wife, who attends to these matters, releases the clutch and let's it run until the anchor is definitely on the bottom, then let's it run in a more controlled way, as the boat drops back.

 

[Dutch01527]

Not sure that mistakes/inexperience at sea is a new phenomenon. Maybe more people getting bigger boats earlier in their sailing career.

I like to think that I am a reasonably experienced and capable sailor but in the last 12 months there have been a number of mini incidents that would have some casual observers shaking their head and muttering about how standards have fallen e.g.

- I asked a inexperienced crew member to keep the bow line on when manoeuvring out of a tight marina in c. 20 knots surrounded by million pound gin palaces to enable me to swing as required. I asked another crew member to let go the stern line and the bow man got confused and let that go as well. We were well fendered all around and drifted rather elegantly into the boat next to us with no damage. My fault for not anticipating the risk of confusion.

- We came into Dartmouth and was allocated a berth on the middle of the inner town quay. Checked the positioning of the boats on the swing moorings just past the Castle and they were all pointing up river indicating that the river was still flowing out. I assumed that would be the same 1/2 mile further up at the quay and planned to approach the tight berth heading into the stream. When I was committed to the manoeuvre I realised that I had about a knot of flow behind me and could not abort. There is almost no room to manoeuvre there. Luckily a guy on the pontoon saw my predicament and took a line thrown to act as a brake. Without him it could have been very messy. Apparently there are strange eddyies in the lower river that can catch the unwary out. Lesson learnt but I must have looked, and maybe was, totally incompetent.

I take the view that we are all still learning. Better to mess up occasionally and become a better sailor than never leave the marina.

 

[Dutch01527]

Deleted - duplicate

 

[dunedin]

Just had the second ARC boat to come in that can't anchor. It's a big shiny Outremer. Great holding here but 3rd attempt so far at a anchoring. Part of the problem seems to be that none of these boats free drop their anchor. It's so slow to get the anchor on the bottom that they have probably picked up a ton of seagrass on the anchor as they drift backwards towing the anchor along the seabed. Free dropping the anchor so it hits the bottom quickly would likely make all the difference. It blowing 20kts. Nothing unusual about that in the Caribbean but so many people simple down have the basic skills to anchor. Glad that they are not in front of me?

That is a matter of opinion and technique. Since we got boats with electric windlasses we have never free dropped the anchor - always lowered down on the winch, and must have done so way over 1,000 times so far without issue.
I am not a believer in a free drop, as in shallow water can create a pile of chain over the anchor.

With a tiny modicum of experience and thought it is easy to lay out cable neatly lowering on the windlass. If doing so solo I use the wireless remote. Easy to know how long will take to touch bottom in say 10m. Generally just lower and let boat start to move back as chain pays out. If very windy start lowering whilst still gently going ahead and time it so loose way and start to blow back as anchor reaches bottom. In modest winds stop briefly at about 2x scope to ensure cable straight before paying out to 4x before setting fully.
Each to their own but your technique is not necessarily best for all.

I will admit it is amusing watching people start lowering chain and then engaging full reverse and exiting the anchorage at 6 knots in reverse, wondering why the anchor hasn’t set yet

 

[Stemar]

I will admit it is amusing watching people start lowering chain and then engaging full reverse and exiting the anchorage at 6 knots in reverse, wondering why the anchor hasn’t set yet

Schadenfreude is a wonderful terrible thing, but it's forgivable as long as we remember that one day it's going to be our turn to provide the entertainment.

It doesn't help that inexperience on a bigger boat shows up more because smaller boats are more forgiving. When my little Snapdragon got out of line, a tug on a rope would have her behaving herself again. I have to be much firmer with the Catalac, and my mate's 39 footer would just snigger and pull back.

 

[geem]

That is a matter of opinion and technique. Since we got boats with electric windlasses we have never free dropped the anchor - always lowered down on the winch, and must have done so way over 1,000 times so far without issue.
I am not a believer in a free drop, as in shallow water can create a pile of chain over the anchor.

With a tiny modicum of experience and thought it is easy to lay out cable neatly lowering on the windlass. If doing so solo I use the wireless remote. Easy to know how long will take to touch bottom in say 10m. Generally just lower and let boat start to move back as chain pays out. If very windy start lowering whilst still gently going ahead and time it so loose way and start to blow back as anchor reaches bottom. In modest winds stop briefly at about 2x scope to ensure cable straight before paying out to 4x before setting fully.
Each to their own but your technique is not necessarily best for all.

I will admit it is amusing watching people start lowering chain and then engaging full reverse and exiting the anchorage at 6 knots in reverse, wondering why the anchor hasn’t set yet

That doesn't work here. The bottom is most often thick seagrass. The wind is often 20kts or more. Currently as I write this its blowing 27kts.
If you expect to drift back slowly in this kind of wind without slowing down with the engine then think along the lines of 3 or 4 kts or backwards drift. If you use the engine then you need to keep the boat head to wind as you do it whilst the wind tries to blow the bow off. Not easy unless you have a powerful bow thruster.
If you are piling chan on your anchor you are doing it wrong. Motion in any direction rather than being stationary will ensure you don't pile chain on top of the anchor. Since it is so windy here most of the time, I generally maintain about 0.5/0.7kts SOG of forward motion when the anchor is free dropped. As soon as the anchor hits bottom, I turn the wheel hard over. This exposes the side of the boat to the wind and helps to pull the chain out of the anchor locker and lay the chain on the seabed. Keep going until we have the appropriate amount of chain out for the depth then set the snubber. Once we are all lined up we apply engine revs to set the anchor.
New cruising grounds need different anchoring techniques and that may well be why we see so many dragging boats here struggling to set anchors in what is excellent holding

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

A sort of friend (my long term mechanic, important they feel you are their friend!) called last week to say he had done a dinghy course years ago and wanted to know if he needs a licence to buy and sail a yacht as he wants to sail to the Med! Could I suggest a nice looking boat where he doesn't have to pull out the beds... oh dear! ? I told him to go and crew for someone first (not me of course ?) having described how just getting out of Chichester Harbour can kill you if you don't know, what you don't know!

I would go further and suggest that he takes a formal course. In this particular instance, as the person in question is a tradesman, and accustomed to the idea of learning skills by classroom attendance followed by hands-on, practical learning, the advice should be well received.

 

[dunedin]

That doesn't work here. The bottom is most often thick seagrass. The wind is often 20kts or more. Currently as I write this its blowing 27kts.
If you expect to drift back slowly in this kind of wind without slowing down with the engine then think along the lines of 3 or 4 kts or backwards drift. If you use the engine then you need to keep the boat head to wind as you do it whilst the wind tries to blow the bow off. Not easy unless you have a powerful bow thruster.
If you are piling chan on your anchor you are doing it wrong. Motion in any direction rather than being stationary will ensure you don't pile chain on top of the anchor. Since it is so windy here most of the time, I generally maintain about 0.5/0.7kts SOG of forward motion when the anchor is free dropped. As soon as the anchor hits bottom, I turn the wheel hard over. This exposes the side of the boat to the wind and helps to pull the chain out of the anchor locker and lay the chain on the seabed. Keep going until we have the appropriate amount of chain out for the depth then set the snubber. Once we are all lined up we apply engine revs to set the anchor.
New cruising grounds need different anchoring techniques and that may well be why we see so many dragging boats here struggling to set anchors in what is excellent holding

Often anchored in 25-30 knots winding down the chain. Soon get to know when to start lowering and when will reach bottom, and as noted with wireless remote can do the laying out from the helm

 

[geem]

Often anchored in 25-30 knots winding down the chain. Soon get to know when to start lowering and when will reach bottom, and as noted with wireless remote can do the laying out from the helm

Often anchored in 25-30 knots winding down the chain. Soon get to know when to start lowering and when will reach bottom, and as noted with wireless remote can do the laying out from the helm

We can layout from the helm but choose not to. There is no benefit unless you are single handed.
Different issue anchoring in clean sandy bottom. Evidence here suggests those trying your approach cock it up. Seagrass bottom is perfect for clogging an anchor even if the anchor only drags across the seabed a short distance. Free dropping is what the majority of experienced cruisers do in this neck of the woods because it works time after time.