Has the quality of those out sailing dropped to marine equivalent of camper van sailors

[Kelpie]

It is the same yacht.

Cannot answer about flares, but how many boats have their VHF aerial at the top of the mast. Loose the mast and you loose the VHF. That is why I have a spare aerial that can be plugged into the VHF set and set upon a spinnaker pole set upright.

Fair point.
We have a second VHF aerial at the stern on a pole, it was previously used for AIS but is now available as a backup. We also carry a spare aerial in stores. And of course there's the HH, but you'd probably be in visual range at that point anyway.

 

[SaltyC]

Well put. And roads are (allegedly) safer than ever.

1. Are people taking on passages or sailing in a way well beyond their capability and that of their boat?

2. When things start to go wrong do they make sensible decisions and attempts to find a solution?

3. Are more people sailing than before?

You will never learn more unless you have a go and step beyond known and comfortable. In fact many of the really experienced yachtsmen seem to have stories of how they just missed disaster.

Jury's still out for me.

AAAh, surely it is the small steps we have all taken, not the Giant leaps of faith some now appear to take with blind faith in electronics rather than knowledge and understanding?

 

[DownWest]

Going back a bit, there does seem to be a certain number who think that sailing the seas is a great idea, even if they have 'limited' experience. The bloke that abandoned his ship off Brittany recently comes to mind. Very little idea of what a RTW really entailed.

 

[geem]

We have been in the same anchorage for over a week. Mainly because we are kitesurfing here and the conditions are great. The reef behind us is quite visible and well marked on the charts. The Navionics show the reef accurately.
Today a 66ft Oyster went on the reef. Sails up. He sat there with the main up for about 15 mins pushing him further on. A pal who is Captain on a 72ft motor yacht went over to assist and a few ribs including us. The owner of the Oyster was absolutely clueless and even though he was on the reef didn't know where the reef was. Normally we would fasten a powerful boat to a halyard and lean th boat over towards deeper water but there were none about. With four boats and a total of about 80hp plus the Oysters bow thuster, we managed to get it pointing out to deeper water. The skipper used the main engine at full revs buy it wouldn't budge. We gave it a bit more pushing on the bow and it came off.
This boat now makes 4 boats on this well marked reef in a little over 1 week. What is wrong with people? Can they not see the difference in water colour and the fact there is a reef on the chartplotter? The level of incompetent is staggering

 

[Concerto]

We have been in the same anchorage for over a week. Mainly because we are kitesurfing here and the conditions are great. The reef behind us is quite visible and well marked on the charts. The Navionics show the reef accurately.
Today a 66ft Oyster went on the reef. Sails up. He sat there with the main up for about 15 mins pushing him further on. A pal who is Captain on a 72ft motor yacht went over to assist and a few ribs including us. The owner of the Oyster was absolutely clueless and even though he was on the reef didn't know where the reef was. Normally we would fasten a powerful boat to a halyard and lean th boat over towards deeper water but there were none about. With four boats and a total of about 80hp plus the Oysters bow thuster, we managed to get it pointing out to deeper water. The skipper used the main engine at full revs buy it wouldn't budge. We gave it a bit more pushing on the bow and it came off.
This boat now makes 4 boats on this well marked reef in a little over 1 week. What is wrong with people? Can they not see the difference in water colour and the fact there is a reef on the chartplotter? The level of incompetent is staggering

"With so many instruments to look at, not to mention steering into a strange anchorage with lots of boats in our way, and deciding where to drop the anchor, thats how we missed the reef. " says the Oyster owner. "On YouTube, this sailing lark looks so delightful, anchoring in quiet bays, going for a swim or dive, playing with our water toys, fishing, trips in the dinghy to nearb beaches, shops, markets and bars, not to mention the sunbathing and socialising (drinking). It certainly is the life for us."

"Who ever mentioned the problems of owning a boat. The loo has blocked several times, but as we have three it does not matter that much until we get a guy to fix it. Then the engine did not sound right, so the engineer quickly found the problem - a lack of oil in the sump. Who is supposed to put oil in there? Not me as I do not want to get my fingers dirty. Then the electrics went funny, so we started the generator but our neighbours complained about the noise and smell at near midnight. Another time we ran out of water, it seems there is a problem with the watermaker. The guy who came to fix it said it needed a new membrain and it would have to be shipped over as I did not carry a spare or two. The list seems endless, but do not mention the weather. Sometimes the wind is so strong the boat leans and my beer slides off the table. Hate to think what it will be like with the sails up. Due to our time constraints, we plan our route carefully. We know we can motor at 7½ knots, so we can exactly predict when we shall arrive at our destination, so we prebook a table at the best restaurant. Sometimes we put the sails up as the wind is on the beam and we can sail faster than we can motor..........................................................."

 

[geem]

"With so many instruments to look at, not to mention steering into a strange anchorage with lots of boats in our way, and deciding where to drop the anchor, thats how we missed the reef. " says the Oyster owner. "On YouTube, this sailing lark looks so delightful, anchoring in quiet bays, going for a swim or dive, playing with our water toys, fishing, trips in the dinghy to nearb beaches, shops, markets and bars, not to mention the sunbathing and socialising (drinking). It certainly is the life for us."

"Who ever mentioned the problems of owning a boat. The loo has blocked several times, but as we have three it does not matter that much until we get a guy to fix it. Then the engine did not sound right, so the engineer quickly found the problem - a lack of oil in the sump. Who is supposed to put oil in there? Not me as I do not want to get my fingers dirty. Then the electrics went funny, so we started the generator but our neighbours complained about the noise and smell at near midnight. Another time we ran out of water, it seems there is a problem with the watermaker. The guy who came to fix it said it needed a new membrain and it would have to be shipped over as I did not carry a spare or two. The list seems endless, but do not mention the weather. Sometimes the wind is so strong the boat leans and my beer slides off the table. Hate to think what it will be like with the sails up. Due to our time constraints, we plan our route carefully. We know we can motor at 7½ knots, so we can exactly predict when we shall arrive at our destination, so we prebook a table at the best restaurant. Sometimes we put the sails up as the wind is on the beam and we can sail faster than we can motor..........................................................."

Yep, those are the sailors that now litter the seas.
A French guy on a very smart and racy looking 50ft cat asked me yesterday if I had a multimeter he could borrow. His watermaker wasn't working. I have two multimeters soI leant him one. He came back an hour later. I asked if he had fixed it. He said no. He didn't know anything about electrics. That seems to be the approach now. Buy a mega expensive boat and just set off somewhere. No knowledge or expertise. No tools and no spares

 

[Bobc]

"With so many instruments to look at, not to mention steering into a strange anchorage with lots of boats in our way, and deciding where to drop the anchor, thats how we missed the reef. " says the Oyster owner. "On YouTube, this sailing lark looks so delightful, anchoring in quiet bays, going for a swim or dive, playing with our water toys, fishing, trips in the dinghy to nearb beaches, shops, markets and bars, not to mention the sunbathing and socialising (drinking). It certainly is the life for us."

"Who ever mentioned the problems of owning a boat. The loo has blocked several times, but as we have three it does not matter that much until we get a guy to fix it. Then the engine did not sound right, so the engineer quickly found the problem - a lack of oil in the sump. Who is supposed to put oil in there? Not me as I do not want to get my fingers dirty. Then the electrics went funny, so we started the generator but our neighbours complained about the noise and smell at near midnight. Another time we ran out of water, it seems there is a problem with the watermaker. The guy who came to fix it said it needed a new membrain and it would have to be shipped over as I did not carry a spare or two. The list seems endless, but do not mention the weather. Sometimes the wind is so strong the boat leans and my beer slides off the table. Hate to think what it will be like with the sails up. Due to our time constraints, we plan our route carefully. We know we can motor at 7½ knots, so we can exactly predict when we shall arrive at our destination, so we prebook a table at the best restaurant. Sometimes we put the sails up as the wind is on the beam and we can sail faster than we can motor..........................................................."

Just about sums it up really.

 

[dunedin]

Yes one thing that does seem to be a new phenomena is people buying first boats that are brand new 50 plus footer, million plus boats.
Think that was behind the demise of Discovery. First time buyers have very different expectations, and perhaps expect new boats to be like a new Porsche (when perhaps more like a new TVR or older Aston Martin), and just as easy to use and maintain (call garage and ask to fix)?

 

[Supertramp]

Seek out the quieter places, the places where you have to think about wind and tides and access. Perhaps get out and move in the wrong forecast. It might be fun to watch for an afternoon but I don't sleep well when there are dummies careering around. And I can skip the restaurants they are all going to.

Its the same in many walks of life - lots of people, lots of money, motivated by social media. Still some dinosaurs left though!

 

[Stemar]

Its the same in many walks of life - lots of people, lots of money, motivated by social media. Still some dinosaurs left though!

I'm proud to be a dinosaur

There's the well-known saying that the enjoyment of a boat is inversely proportional to its size. I would offer the corollary, that the practical knowledge of a skipper is inversely proportional to the size of the boat.

Obviously, there are honourable exceptions to both, but small boats tend to have owners who can't afford to pay "the man who does that". Unfortunately, chequebook sailors tend to find that "the man who does that" isn't there when they have an issue at sea. Oops.

 

[franksingleton]

I'm proud to be a dinosaur

There's the well-known saying that the enjoyment of a boat is inversely proportional to its size. I would offer the corollary, that the practical knowledge of a skipper is inversely proportional to the size of the boat.

Obviously, there are honourable exceptions to both, but small boats tend to have owners who can't afford to pay "the man who does that". Unfortunately, chequebook sailors tend to find that "the man who does that" isn't there when they have an issue at sea. Oops.

Also, the cost of running a yacht varies with the square of the length. This goes contrary to an old adage that the length of a yacht should be one foot for each year of the skipper‘s age.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Stemar #90, at last someone who is proud to be a dinosaur, they get a really bad press but it’s worth remembering that dinosaurs ’ruled’ the Earth for about 150 million years, humans have only been around for about 300.000 years, we have a long way to go before we have been around as long.

 

[Stemar]

This goes contrary to an old adage that the length of a yacht should be one foot for each year of the skipper‘s age.

The idea of a 70+ foot yacht appals me. I can't imagine doing that even if I did come up with a megamillions lottery win.

Though I might be tempted by a 36 foot cat. Would that count?

 

[franksingleton]

The idea of a 70+ foot yacht appals me. I can't imagine doing that even if I did come up with a megamillions lottery win.

Though I might be tempted by a 36 foot cat. Would that count?

I would need one nearly 45 ft. I can’t bear to think of the running costs.

 

[KevinV]

I would need one nearly 45 ft. I can’t bear to think of the running costs.

Maybe time to get a trimaran?

 

[Trident]

The level of incompetent is staggering

I hate to say it but does this all perhaps relate to the proximity of the USA... ?

 

[Supertramp]

The idea of a 70+ foot yacht appals me. I can't imagine doing that even if I did come up with a megamillions lottery win.

Though I might be tempted by a 36 foot cat. Would that count?

That's because your brain would be overriding your wallet!

Which is more or less the point of this thread, only others get it the other way round.

 

[awol]

I hate to say it but does this all perhaps relate to the proximity of the USA... ?

I wish it was so but a chat with any of the west coast charterers might disabuse you of that notion. Their stories are truly frightening. But remember those who claim not to have hit a rock in the west either haven't been there much or are liars!

 

[geem]

I hate to say it but does this all perhaps relate to the proximity of the USA... ?

3 out of the last 4 boats on the reef near us in the last few days were American crews. I am not saying anything?
Here in Green island there used to be about 20 moorings. They were installed about 10 years ago. Never been maintained. We have seen several fail. There are now only 3 left. The pick up lines have been cut off to discourage people from picking them up. Yesterday a big cat went to pick one up not far from us but behind us. I nipped over in the dinghy to advise them not to and explained why. They still picked it up. Americans. They didn't check the mooring. Its breezy at the moment. Solid 20kts with squalls to about 25. Why would you take that risk? Anchored boat just behind. Makes no sense to me other than they don't know how to anchor.
Most of European boats are generally competent but we try not to anchor behind French boats. Experience as taught us this is often not a good idea

 

[RupertW]

I'm proud to be a dinosaur

There's the well-known saying that the enjoyment of a boat is inversely proportional to its size. I would offer the corollary, that the practical knowledge of a skipper is inversely proportional to the size of the boat.

Obviously, there are honourable exceptions to both, but small boats tend to have owners who can't afford to pay "the man who does that". Unfortunately, chequebook sailors tend to find that "the man who does that" isn't there when they have an issue at sea. Oops.

Honestly, I would have agreed with every word of that 12 years ago. After over 3 decades of maintaining or owning small wooden then 2 24 foot then a 31 foot GRP boats and doing most of the work I thought I could manage pretty well.

A well used 42 footer bought in 2010 showed how wrong I was. Far more to go wrong and learn about - barely a trip went by without some big new hassle. And the plumbing and the wiring and steering systems and everything so big that you watch something slipping to breaking point and can’t just grab it but need to stand back and watch it break with any consequences.