Has Anyone ever used a Mule Sail?

[Laminar Flow]

Dear Group,
I'm planning on adding a mule (no, not the farm variety) to our ketch, also known as a main backstay sail. See picture. Has anyone here ever used one or seen one in action?

Thanks for any input, A

 

[Old Bumbulum]

Mule sail???
Isn't that what's widely kown as a fisherman's or mizen stays'l?

 

[Laminar Flow]

Mule sail???
Isn't that what's widely kown as a fisherman's or mizen stays'l?

Thanks for getting back.
A fisherman, I believe, is flown between masts on a schooner.
A mizzen staysail is flown from the tip of the mizzen and usually tacked to the windward side of the main mast base. It is sheeted to the end of the mizzen boom. It looks like a jib or genny.
A mule, as in the pic is sort of like an upside down jib on the main backstay and sheeted to the mizzen top. For better sail shape it helps to add a wishbone or half wishbone.

 

[pcatterall]

Mule sail???
Isn't that what's widely kown as a fisherman's or mizen stays'l?

As far as I recall a mizzen stay sails head is at the top of the Mizzen mast and not attached to the main at all.
The one shown in the photo looks 'interesting' !

 

[Laminar Flow]

As far as I recall a mizzen stay sails head is at the top of the Mizzen mast and not attached to the main at all.
The one shown in the photo looks 'interesting' !

The interesting part is that it can be carried to windward as well.

 

[Boo2]

The interesting part is that it can be carried to windward as well.

The one in the pic looks to be too small to do much ?

Boo2

 

[Laminar Flow]

Owner claims it adds a knot. Ours would be 12m2.

 

[pcatterall]

Owner claims it adds a knot. Ours would be 12m2.

Have you considered an 'ordinary' mizzen stay sail yet/first? I keep toying with the idea for our Neptunian ketch. It would be good to have a bit more easily handled sail to keep up speeds in lighter winds. I have read, however, that you should aim for a similar sail area to the main and am having difficulty in designing something to approach this.

 

[lw395]

Looking in the picture, the top of the genoa is very well eased. The boat is on a very broad reach and everything else is strapped in.
Without a wishbone, that sail is going to be hard to set except in some sort of stalled 'windjammer' mode.
It looks a mess.
Might be ideal for some racing situations where it's tactically useful to give other boats the maximum amount of disturbed wind?

 

[wombat88]

Have I not seen something similar on a Buckler Ketch?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

If you had the tack going out to the toerail then maybe it would work on a reach, but upwind looks a bit ambitious.

 

[LadyInBed]

I don't think it would work for me, with twin back stays, or doesn't that make a difference?

 

[Laminar Flow]

Have you considered an 'ordinary' mizzen stay sail yet/first? I keep toying with the idea for our Neptunian ketch. It would be good to have a bit more easily handled sail to keep up speeds in lighter winds. I have read, however, that you should aim for a similar sail area to the main and am having difficulty in designing something to approach this.

Yes, I have considered a regular mizzen stay'sl, but we have a ruddy big wheelhouse in the way and twin back stays. At best we could carry the standard model on a broad reach and it can not be tacked. Apart from adjusting the sheet, this one is supposed to be self-tending, once set.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I don't think it would work for me, with twin back stays, or doesn't that make a difference?

I presume your avatar is a pic of your boat? How do you get around your twin backstays? I have given it some thought and I don't think it would be a problem to set the sail flying with a wire luff.

 

[Dave Herndon]

Dear Group,
I'm planning on adding a mule (no, not the farm variety) to our ketch, also known as a main backstay sail. See picture. Has anyone here ever used one or seen one in action?
View attachment 84607
Thanks for any input, A

I put a mule sail on my

Dear Group,
I'm planning on adding a mule (no, not the farm variety) to our ketch, also known as a main backstay sail. See picture. Has anyone here ever used one or seen one in action?
View attachment 84607
Thanks for any input, A

I installed a Mule Sail on my ketch-rigged Fisher 25 motorsailer, Wayward Wind, several years ago. I set it up with a roller-reefing-furling system so it only take a few seconds to put out or role in. It is self tending and needs very little attention when using. It adds a bit of speed on all heading, particularly going to windward. It also makes it a bit easier to tack. If you desire additional information or photos, get back to me. Dave Herndon (dhherndon@aol.com).

 

[Laminar Flow]

I put a mule sail on my


I installed a Mule Sail on my ketch-rigged Fisher 25 motorsailer, Wayward Wind, several years ago. I set it up with a roller-reefing-furling system so it only take a few seconds to put out or role in. It is self tending and needs very little attention when using. It adds a bit of speed on all heading, particularly going to windward. It also makes it a bit easier to tack. If you desire additional information or photos, get back to me. Dave Herndon (dhherndon@aol.com).

Hi Dave, thankks for your reply, did your sail have a wishbone spar or was it "loose-footed"?

 

[dunedin]

Looking in the picture, the top of the genoa is very well eased. The boat is on a very broad reach and everything else is strapped in.
Without a wishbone, that sail is going to be hard to set except in some sort of stalled 'windjammer' mode.
It looks a mess.
Might be ideal for some racing situations where it's tactically useful to give other boats the maximum amount of disturbed wind?

Yes it looks like it will always be set badly, due to being sheeted to the centreline (ie masthead) - hence will be very hooked shape, probably just adding to heeling rather than forward drive.
Appreciate the challenges in getting tack positioned, but a sail going from base of mainmast to top of mizzen would be massively more efficient - like the ones used to great effect in Steinlager 2 etc - Steinlager 2: On board Sir Peter Blake’s refitted Whitbread champion

 

[Laminar Flow]

Yes it looks like it will always be set badly, due to being sheeted to the centreline (ie masthead) - hence will be very hooked shape, probably just adding to heeling rather than forward drive.
Appreciate the challenges in getting tack positioned, but a sail going from base of mainmast to top of mizzen would be massively more efficient - like the ones used to great effect in Steinlager 2 etc - Steinlager 2: On board Sir Peter Blake’s refitted Whitbread champion

In the picture I posted the sail is set with a half wishbone spar, similar to a jib with a wishbone. The sail is intended for light weather use and carrying area high up could b e argued as being beneficial. Flown without a spar I would agree that it would be less efficient.

 

[dunedin]

In the picture I posted the sail is set with a half wishbone spar, similar to a jib with a wishbone. The sail is intended for light weather use and carrying area high up could b e argued as being beneficial. Flown without a spar I would agree that it would be less efficient.

It’s difficult to see that in the photo. But as another poster said above, based upon the genoa not flapping, they would have gone faster simply by easing the main and mizzen sheets a lot, and tightening the kicking straps. Faster and less hassle
If efficiency is wanted, the Steinlager option is proven to be very efficient

 

[Laminar Flow]

It’s difficult to see that in the photo. But as another poster said above, based upon the genoa not flapping, they would have gone faster simply by easing the main and mizzen sheets a lot, and tightening the kicking straps. Faster and less hassle
If efficiency is wanted, the Steinlager option is proven to be very efficient

The, for me, attractive part of the mule is the set& forget aspect and not having to tack the sail. I would definitely add a spar to it.

I like the arrangement on Steinlager, alas, I do not have quite the room between masts and my boat comes with that big greenhouse as well. Not to mention: my crew size is somewhat more compact than Steinlager's.