Has anyone bought a "Rocna-style" anchor?

[NormanS]

The more money that people have spent on the anchor of their choice, the more powerful their advocacy of that particular model. A triumph of marketing.

 

[Bouba]

Anchors are like religion on here.

It’s a very catholic subject…

 

[MikeBz]

You obviously place no value in your boat.

To be fair he is thinking of replacing a CQR

 

[BobnLesley]

... I suspect that almost any anchor will be fine in situations we choose; it's how they do when we're surprised that counts.

Based on more nights at anchor than most and in a variety of locations, I came to believe that 'new generation' anchors are more forgiving of poor/casual deployment technique, but when push came to shove, a properly deployed CQR or Bruce would do the job just as well as a Delta, Rocna, etc When seeking advice you should also bear in mind that amongst yotties who've anchored often/for real there are two varieties, those who've on occasion had their anchor drag and those who lie about it. While experience hasn't convinced me that new-gen/expensive anchors hold any or at least not significantly better, I have found that a higher proportion of their owners (perhaps to justify the expenditure) fall into the letter category. All that said, I would not leave a boat hanging off either a CQR Copy or a Brittany anchor, not even for five minutes in flat calm.

 

[Mark-1]

It might be hard to make a visual assessment of an anchor but in many waters a visual assessment of the sea bed is impossible. So IME anxiety at anchor is typically "sea bed" related and never anchor related. Any anxiety over the anchor itself will naturally be dispelled in use. (My main anchor is a battered Danforth copy, or I think it's a copy - it came with the boat. After 8 years I have zero concerns about the holding of that to the point that I've stopped using it with chain despite a life long predudice in favor of chain.)

"it's how they do when we're surprised that counts."

The anchor I'd use in an emergency is my lunch hook (tiny Lewmar copy of a Bruce) because it's instant to deploy from the steering position. The holding power of that is pathetic, I'd never use it overnight. So if surprised, holding power is pretty low down on my list. Dragging at 1/4 of a knot now and being able to throw it to kedge is preferable to stopping myself dead in 4 minutes time. Of course, if dragging is a real problem it buys some time to deploy the main anchor, and the boat is already head on to the conditions.

 

[geem]

Based on more nights at anchor than most and in a variety of locations, I came to believe that 'new generation' anchors are more forgiving of poor/casual deployment technique, but when push came to shove, a properly deployed CQR or Bruce would do the job just as well as a Delta, Rocna, etc When seeking advice you should also bear in mind that amongst yotties who've anchored often/for real there are two varieties, those who've on occasion had their anchor drag and those who lie about it. While experience hasn't convinced me that new-gen/expensive anchors hold any or at least not significantly better, I have found that a higher proportion of their owners (perhaps to justify the expenditure) fall into the letter category. All that said, I would not leave a boat hanging off either a CQR Copy or a Brittany anchor, not even for five minutes in flat calm.

I think the issue is less straightforward than you suggest. Once an anchor is power set, regardless of what variety, the anchors rarely drag. This assumes, reasonable holding, the correct amount of chain, say minimum of 4:1, and good technique.
Lots of people have difficulty in setting their anchor. Often it is insufficient chain, a difficult grassy seabed, bad technique or an old gen anchor. From our experience, a new generation anchor will set in difficult seabeds when a Delta or CQR won't set. In addition, the NG anchors will set on a shorter scope. I have found that occasionally when I power set my Spade anchor, it will drag. Once it has set it simply does not drag.
Its happened only once in thousands of nights at anchor. It was later established that the anchor was in 4 inches of sand over rock. Impossible to actually set the anchor. It hooked on a bit of rock. The wind shifted and the anchor dragged.
I think having a large engine and prop gives us the ability to seriously test the set of the anchor. If it isn't properly set, we simply rip it out of the seabed. This is why we don't drag

 

[Mark-1]

From our experience, a new generation anchor will set in difficult seabeds when a Delta or CQR won't set.

...and yet people have been anchoring in difficult seabeds for millennia.

 

[NormanS]

It might be hard to make a visual assessment of an anchor but in many waters a visual assessment of the sea bed is impossible. So IME anxiety at anchor is typically "sea bed" related and never anchor related. Any anxiety over the anchor itself will naturally be dispelled in use. (My main anchor is a battered Danforth copy, or I think it's a copy - it came with the boat. After 8 years I have zero concerns about the holding of that to the point that I've stopped using it with chain despite a life long predudice in favor of chain.)

"it's how they do when we're surprised that counts."

The anchor I'd use in an emergency is my lunch hook (tiny Lewmar copy of a Bruce) because it's instant to deploy from the steering position. The holding power of that is pathetic, I'd never use it overnight. So if surprised, holding power is pretty low down on my list. Dragging at 1/4 of a knot now and being able to throw it to kedge is preferable to stopping myself dead in 4 minutes time. Of course, if dragging is a real problem it buys some time to deploy the main anchor, and the boat is already head on to the conditions.

I find a "Fish Finder" to be an excellent tool for checking the sea bed.

 

[GHA]

In addition, the NG anchors will set on a shorter scope. I have found that occasionally when I power set my Spade anchor, it will drag. Once it has set it simply does not drag.
Its happened only once in thousands of nights at anchor. It was later established that the anchor was in 4 inches of sand over rock. Impossible to actually set the anchor. It hooked on a bit of rock. The wind shifted and the anchor dragged.
I think having a large engine and prop gives us the ability to seriously test the set of the anchor. If it isn't properly set, we simply rip it out of the seabed. This is why we don't drag

Similar experience though the Spade seems to like a decent scope to set though, 20m + 2 x depth I go for, about 200Kg horizontal load to lift the last link. Can't remember ever dragging the (oversize) spade, sand over rock in this anchorage is one of the 3 times from memory it didn't set straight away, others were Guadiana (slow tug tug tug to get it in), Scillies and Flores in the Azores. Rocna now in a locker similar though istr dragging in soft mud up a jungle river in Brazil with the tiller hard over out of the way in a load of current. CQR the boat came with was just rubbish compared, often OK but sometimes would drag unannounced & could be a bitch to set. I didn't know any better until getting a hook that worked every time
Don't have a huge engine to test, full revs for a bit then after the boat has jumped forward again for about 10m more reverse to get a load of way on and stuff falls over when the boat slews round & stops in a few feet. Every time. I reckon it's much more like what actually happens in a blow.

Anyone who says CQR's are OK doesn't go very far , though if it works in one area where you sail then why change.

 

[geem]

...and yet people have been anchoring in difficult seabeds for millennia.

We used to anchor all around the west coast of the UK and Ireland. With that limited type of bottom, we didn't see much in the way of difficult seabeds. Once we started sailing in new parts of the world, you realise that you need better gear and technique. Coral and different types of seagrass can change things alarmingly. Hard packed sand and stone seabeds that resemble concrete need an anchor that has a super sharp toe. It's all a learning experience. If your anchor works in the are you anchor in, that's great.

 

[Bobc]

We used to anchor all around the west coast of the UK and Ireland. With that limited type of bottom, we didn't see much in the way of difficult seabeds. Once we started sailing in new parts of the world, you realise that you need better gear and technique. Coral and different types of seagrass can change things alarmingly. Hard packed sand and stone seabeds that resemble concrete need an anchor that has a super sharp toe. It's all a learning experience. If your anchor works in the are you anchor in, that's great.

Very true. When we had the boat in the UK and the bottom was mostly mud, the Delta worked really well. When we moved to South Brittany and the seabed was more loose sand, it was much more difficult to set and it ploughed a big trough before bedding in, hence why I changed to the "spade type", which digs and sets instantly. As you say, horses for courses.

 

[Stemar]

Anyone who says CQR's are OK doesn't go very far , though if it works in one area where you sail then why change.

Well, maybe we didn't go very far with it, but we did anchor a few times with the CQR that came with our Snapdragon. It just worked. Then I had to drop it in a hurry, it got stuck and I couldn't retrieve it. I never did get the replacement to set properly, That was also a CQR but, thinking back, I wonder if it might have been a copy, It was replaced by a Delta that a mate had found attached to his anchor when he retrieved it one day. That also did a good job, dragging just once in many nights at anchor.

 

[Refueler]

One consistent theme that seems to have come out of all the anchor threads, is that generally copy anchors drag and don't set correctly.

I've got a genuine Rocna and I'm pleased with it.

???

Having bored myself to tears on many anchor threads - I think I have to ask how often 'copy anchors' are mentioned in threads ? Very rare if the threads I've read are to go by.
Threads seem to polarise on shape / weight and 'name' - not on whether its copied or not.

I would also suggest that often CQR name is used when I would say many out there are actually Holdfast and not original CQR - As to whether the Holdfast is a poor 'copy' I dispute as only reference I can find to that - is CQR's own statements.

 

[vyv_cox]

...and yet people have been anchoring in difficult seabeds for millennia.

Indeed they have. The difference is that in testing conditions, untrustworthy seabeds and risky situations they would sit on anchor watch all night. When we began cruising, with a CQR and later a Delta we would do the same. I cannot remember when we last sat an anchor watch with the Rocna, even in very gusty and windy conditions.

 

[Mark-1]

Indeed they have. The difference is that in testing conditions, untrustworthy seabeds and risky situations they would sit on anchor watch all night. When we began cruising, with a CQR and later a Delta we would do the same. I cannot remember when we last sat an anchor watch with the Rocna, even in very gusty and windy conditions.

I predate common usage of next Gen anchors as I suspect most YBWers do. I don't recall a time when keeping anchor watch was routine on leisure boats and I certainly don't think that time suddenly ended when next gen anchors became prevalent. (Clearly there are occasions when keeping an anchor watch is prudent.)

*If* people really have suddenly stopped keeping anchor watches in recent years it's more likely to be the advent of GPS and GPS anchor alarms than better anchors.

Currently some people have next gen anchors and some don't and I've never heard anyone say "Oh we have to stay up to keep an anchor watch because we haven't got a next Gen anchor yet." nor have I heard the inverse.

 

[Refueler]

Anyone who says CQR's are OK doesn't go very far , though if it works in one area where you sail then why change.

I've had Plough anchors (Holdfast - copies of the CQR) on 3 boats - one after other .... my Father had CQR on his boats .....

I have only ever noted once dragging anchor with a plough anchor - and that's in the river where I live. NO anchor is good there other than a block weight. Why ? Its a 'glacial' river that has a hard bottom with a thin layer of mud over. NOTHING can bite into that ... and the mud is just not deep enough unless you are in one of the small offshoots etc.

I accept that its holding power is not as good as a more modern design ... but to make statement as yours is IMHO not very helpful to anyone.

 

[GHA]

... but to make statement as yours is IMHO not very helpful to anyone.

completely disagree, it's extremely useful to anyone going long distance cruising. Better to find out before leaving than after like everyone else who has ever swapped from a CQR to something that works. Based on 18 years constantly on the hook & chats in the anchorage & happy hour. Don't kid yourself, ask any cruiser that has swapped - same answer "Wow , like night and day!!"

 

[Refueler]

completely disagree, it's extremely useful to anyone going long distance cruising. Better to find out before leaving than after like everyone else who has ever swapped from a CQR to something that works. Based on 18 years constantly on the hook & chats in the anchorage & happy hour. Don't kid yourself, ask any cruiser that has swapped - same answer "Wow , like night and day!!"

That's fine - we will agree to disagree.

My latest boat does not have a plough anchor ... it has a Bruce sitting in the transom locker ... real pain !! Its flukes interfere with everything in there.... Haven't used it yet - but it will get a lot of use this coming season ...

My posts may appear that I am stuck on and prefer Plough ... not correct. I have anchored in many different types of bed and its performed well enough for me. I've even got a fishermans - now that is THE BEST when you have rocks and deep weed / kelp ....

On the river here - best is a lump of concrete due to the thin mud over hard bottom ...

I'm ready to use any anchor and understand that each has its best situation / seabed type ... but NO anchor is 100% ...

 

[vyv_cox]

I predate common usage of next Gen anchors as I suspect most YBWers do. I don't recall a time when keeping anchor watch was routine on leisure boats and I certainly don't think that time suddenly ended when next gen anchors became prevalent. (Clearly there are occasions when keeping an anchor watch is prudent.)

*If* people really have suddenly stopped keeping anchor watches in recent years it's more likely to be the advent of GPS and GPS anchor alarms than better anchors.

Currently some people have next gen anchors and some don't and I've never heard anyone say "Oh we have to stay up to keep an anchor watch because we haven't got a next Gen anchor yet." nor have I heard the inverse.

You seem to be putting your own twist on my post. I most definitely did not say that fitting a new generation anchor obviates the need for anchor watches. I was simply stating my own experience. The increase of our anchoring experience and improvements in technical design bring greater confidence to go to bed in a hoolie. I do not claim not to awaken when conditions change: I am a sufficiently light sleeper to awaken when something in the boat's motion changes but this is very different from the all-night watches we used to keep.

 

[Mark-1]

I've even got a fishermans - now that is THE BEST when you have rocks and deep weed / kelp ....

I spent a night in Canna in a gale on a Fisherman anchor. Cut straight through the weed and held perfectly all night. (No anchor watch was kept.)

An anchor design so old nobody knows when it was invented but likely prehistoric - the ancient Greeks certainly used similar. Worked fine.