Has anyone bought a "Rocna-style" anchor?

[geem]

We wired in a piezo electric alarm - no-one can ignore the noise - I have actually wondered if it was overkill its so shrill your heart beat increases to dangerous levels.

We actually never used it - and trusted the anchor (usually an aluminium Excel, 7kg x 6mm chain, Australian made ).

Jonathan

Apart from 3 months when we hauled the boat out and flew home, we have been anchored or sailing since Dec 2021. No harbours. No marinas. No anchor alarm. We expect we will next be in a harbour in June this year when we visit the Azores.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

???

Having bored myself to tears on many anchor threads - I think I have to ask how often 'copy anchors' are mentioned in threads ? Very rare if the threads I've read are to go by.
Threads seem to polarise on shape / weight and 'name' - not on whether its copied or not.

Since you asked for it, I'll admit to it! I spent two seasons with a 10kg Delta copy that came with the boat. It is a fine anchor that has earned my trust. No complaints, never dragged, and held us for 4 days in a solid 40kts meltemi with gusts that may well have been in the 60s. The wind was vicious, well beyond the strength that I and my crew would feel comfortable sailing in, and this piece of steel of unknown provenance kept us safe until the booze dried out in merciful synchrony with the wind.

Last year I bought, and spent a season with, a 12kg Rocna Vulcan. No complaints with that either, other than the mud that it brings up. It held us fine in 35-40kts, but didn't see a blow quite as bad as last year's. The Vulcan dragged a couple of times in moderate conditions, but it was on a seabed that I knew was quite difficult. I had not anchored there before and doubt that my fake Delta would've fared any better.

The problem with copies is that they're an unknown quantity -- my Delta copy is pretty good, but that doesn't mean that all copies are reliable anchors. I bought the Vulcan for peace of mind -- if we end up on the rocks, at least nobody can blame me for not spending money on a proper anchor. But I still carry the fake Delta around, and would feel comfortable anchoring with it were I to somehow lose the Vulcan.

The boat also came with a fake Danforth. I have no confidence in that, and only use it as a kedge.

 

[Bobc]

Why would you ever scrimp on a device that actually keeps you safe???? Would you buy knock off brakes for your car? The whole perception of anchoring really is from a bygone era. Modern anchors are so more advanced at doing the job they are meant to do. Having a boat is about freedom and being able to remove yourself from the heaving masses. The ability to anchor up in some secluded bay stay the night and not have to wake up every five minutes to check whether you have dragged should be a thing of the past.

Most people and independant garages fit "non-genuine" brake components actually.

 

[doug748]

Why would you ever scrimp on a device that actually keeps you safe???? Would you buy knock off brakes for your car? The whole perception of anchoring really is from a bygone era. Modern anchors are so more advanced at doing the job they are meant to do. Having a boat is about freedom and being able to remove yourself from the heaving masses. The ability to anchor up in some secluded bay stay the night and not have to wake up every five minutes to check whether you have dragged should be a thing of the past.

Touching to see two new members in complete accord. So welcome " Ron Burgundy and Roy Purchase"

Jolly brave to pitch into an anchor thread like this

.

 

[LittleSister]

Why would you ever scrimp on a device that actually keeps you safe????

Because if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to go sailing.

Almost every part of a boat's systems is safety critical to some degree. I have to balance the cost, the perceived risks, and the perceived reduction in risks associated with the more expensive options.

 

[Neeves]

Viking anchors will have a new anchor on the market soon, or now.

Its a refreshingly new design and does not rely on ballast, like Spade, Excel, Delta etc nor a roll bar, like Rocna and Supreme (which relies on a roll bar and ballast) to self right on the seabed. It self rights without the unnecessary crutches. It has the hold in a 10kg model similar to that of a 15kg steel Excel or 15kg steel Rocna. It continues the Viking theme of using HT steel to make a stronger, lighter anchor. It will fit on any bow roller that accepts a Delta (though I have yet to test this). Basically it fits into the role of replacing aluminium anchors with HT steel anchors of the same weight as the aluminium models and same hold as the steel models weighing 50% more

It continues to be made in Ukraine, supporting the good fight. I cannot understand how, or why, they make anchors for our leisure and manage to source the steel from Scandinavia and ship the anchors to their European warehouse in Belgium. I'm not aware that stock will be held yet in N Am. I'm now guessing but they should soon be able to build the anchors with green steel - as their steel supplier is at the forefront of the green developments and already supplies, similar steel as used in the anchors, to vehicle makers like Volvo.

For more information contact Viking using their website and mention you are interested in the Odin model. Viking Anchors - Advanced Anchoring Systems.

You can also read of their production of the Neeves' Boomerang and Bridle Plate. I take the opportunity to confirm I derive no income in my passive support of Viking, my ego is enhanced and I like to feel I'm doing something active to support the good fight. How long Viking can continue to base manufacture in Ukraine is 'fluid'. every male found on the streets between the ages of 16 - 60 is being sent to the front - hopefully there are exceptions for strategic industries.

I'm not aware of production with HT stainless, aka Duplex, initially it will only be a simple hot dipped galvanised finish.

It seemed appropriate to post on this thread but I may start a new thread if more details become available of Odin.

Jonathan

 

[LittleSister]

I am a bit puzzled as to why so many posters in this thread tell us the weight (size) of their particular anchor, but without mentioning the size and style of boat. Isn't the anchor size meaningless without the latter information?

My own prejudices are that
- new generation anchors generally have higher ultimate holding power and generally quicker and more reliable setting. (I have been persuaded so by numerous poster's anecdotes and some of the comparative tests I've read.) They also have very much higher prices and hence are pretty much out of the question for me!
- old generation anchors (all least the branded ones) generally work fine most of the time, but it sure doesn't seem like that when you just want to sleep and/or get out of the rain and you''re trying for the third or fourth time to get the blinking thing to set properly!
- pretty much all anchors are 'copies' in the sense that they're a variation on one of a small number of themes, but when considering direct copies of branded anchors, visually small changes in materials, construction technique/quality, design and balance are quite likely to be critical to performance. There may be direct copies out there that are as good as the original/branded item, but I suspect (and drawing inference from equipment in other fields I am familiar with) they are a rarity, and are much more likely to be significantly inferior in capabilities compared to the 'real thing'. I also draw some comfort from the manufacturers of 'branded' anchors having stood behind them and staked their reputation on them (even though some are now long gone).
- I would therefore much rather have a genuine branded anchor of an older generation and/or lesser reputation, than an unbranded copy of something more modern or of higher repute.
- I am unpersuaded that 'going up a size' is any substitute for design performance, or indeed any advantage at all, and is typically a disadvantage, except for those who are planning to be anchoring in truly extreme conditions.

I have been anchoring for decades, mainly weekends and holidays, mainly in benign conditions, and mainly with the anchors that came with boats I'd bought - CQRs and CQR copies, Danforth (1 genuine I think) and Danforth copies, and a Bruce copy, plus various others on friends' or charter boats. (The only completely useless anchor I've had was a small folding grapnel type I bought for the dinghy.)

Most of the time I've have no problems anchoring at all, but it is not unusual to have problems setting, especially in unfamiliar or suspect bottoms. I am not sure I've ever dragged when I was not already suspicious of how well set was the anchor. It may well be that a new generation anchor would cope better with those challenging bottoms.

I did once almost persuade myself to buy a slightly better anchor for my boat (forgotten brand name, fairly cheap, good reputation for setting but suspiciously spindly shank, two different mechanisms for securing the shank to the fluke), but that brand seems to have now disappeared from the shelves so I can stop worrying about it!

 

[Neeves]

I did once almost persuade myself to buy a slightly better anchor for my boat (forgotten brand name, fairly cheap, good reputation for setting but suspiciously spindly shank, two different mechanisms for securing the shank to the fluke), but that brand seems to have now disappeared from the shelves so I can stop worrying about it!

You may be referring to Plastimo's Kobra and, if so, I agree with your comments, fairly cheap, good reputation for setting (and hold) spindly shank and 2 mechanisms for securing shank to fluke. We bought one from a Manchester chandler and took it home as luggage to test. In the nearby marina, to the chandler, was a yacht with a Kobra on the bow with a slight bend in the shank. I then had the shank welded to the fluke as the original concept did not look very secure.

As a budget anchor its one of the best I've seen. I was unaware it 'seems to have disappeared' - they were never available in Oz. The trouble with budget anchors is that they have shaved the costs, somewhere, and some of the savings possibly resulted in the spindly (thin) shank. I don't make anchors (or anything) but a better concept would have been to continue to use the cast fluke, cheap from China, and simply insert a HT shank into a slot - secured with an HT bolt - along the lines of Spade's shank/fluke.


But on costs - anchors last for ever and genuine and old CQRs, Bruce', Danforth and Delta's are 'largely' as good now as they were when they were bought (CQRs might have a worn hinge). You cannot say that for many devices on a sailing yacht (or even the sailing yacht itself). I see no reason why existing models, Rocna, Epsilon etc should not last just as long.

Strangely current new designs, using the same test protocols as the old models, are only twice as good (same weight) in terms of 'hold' as models designed 40 - 80 years ago. Viking might be threatening that statement (as for twice as good - they have less weight). But as you point out the new designs hold more reliably and are easier to set - which to me has a financial, if subjective, value.

On weight and size of yacht - its complex, historically anchors have been sold by weight, but where does an aluminium Spade or Fortress fit into the simply notion of weight? Where will Viking or Thor fit into the equation when its ostensibly the same size, surface area, but made using thinner and stronger steel - than another anchor.

We have become so used to 'weight' as THE measure it has become an obstacle to be overcome by some anchor makers, like Fortress.

Jonathan

 

[Bouba]

Viking anchors will have a new anchor on the market soon, or now.

Its a refreshingly new design and does not rely on ballast, like Spade, Excel, Delta etc nor a roll bar, like Rocna and Supreme (which relies on a roll bar and ballast) to self right on the seabed. It self rights without the unnecessary crutches. It has the hold in a 10kg model similar to that of a 15kg steel Excel or 15kg steel Rocna. It continues the Viking theme of using HT steel to make a stronger, lighter anchor. It will fit on any bow roller that accepts a Delta (though I have yet to test this). Basically it fits into the role of replacing aluminium anchors with HT steel anchors of the same weight as the aluminium models and same hold as the steel models weighing 50% more

It continues to be made in Ukraine, supporting the good fight. I cannot understand how, or why, they make anchors for our leisure and manage to source the steel from Scandinavia and ship the anchors to their European warehouse in Belgium. I'm not aware that stock will be held yet in N Am. I'm now guessing but they should soon be able to build the anchors with green steel - as their steel supplier is at the forefront of the green developments and already supplies, similar steel as used in the anchors, to vehicle makers like Volvo.

For more information contact Viking using their website and mention you are interested in the Thor model. Viking Anchors - Advanced Anchoring Systems.

You can also read of their production of the Neeves' Boomerang and Bridle Plate. I take the opportunity to confirm I derive no income in my passive support of Viking, my ego is enhanced and I like to feel I'm doing something active to support the good fight. How long Viking can continue to base manufacture in Ukraine is 'fluid'. every male found on the streets between the ages of 16 - 60 is being sent to the front - hopefully there are exceptions for strategic industries.

I'm not aware of production with HT stainless, aka Duplex, initially it will only be a simple hot dipped galvanised finish.

It seemed appropriate to post on this thread but I may start a new thread if more details become available of Thor.

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, do you have a photo of the new Viking Thor anchor?

 

[Neeves]

Hi Jonathan, do you have a photo of the new Viking Thor anchor?

I must apologise - its called Odin, not Thor. . Odin was Thor's father

I've changed the name in the posts above.

I'm waiting on my wooden box to arrive, within which is Odin

I'll post as soon as it arrives - but we are in the nether regions of the world - be patient.

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

When you said that you were waiting for your wooden box, it made me think of much more terminal things.

 

[Neeves]

- pretty much all anchors are 'copes' in the sense that they're a variation on one of a small number of themes,

I was pondering as I did some domestic chores

Copies? Anchors? ..... Its commonly mentioned as a complaint - but I wonder why

I look at SUVs and apart from the badge, I find difficulty differentiating between the various brands. Modern cars seem to have all the same electronics, including heated steering wheels! even in Australia. Take the label off modern marine electronics - much of a muchness. Sit in an Economy seat in an Airbus or Boeing - is there a difference in the seats, in the cabin.....?

A CQR.....The near anchor, add a hinge, chop off the stock...With no disrespect ....its a prototype CQR





Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

When you said that you were waiting for your wooden box, it made me think of much more terminal things.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I have thought that young though I am - maybe I should retire, from YBW. But then I thought maybe I serve a real purpose, get people's hearts racing and more positively - make some of them think.

I'm glad your emoji was appropriate - I'm touched.

Jonathan

 

[Puffin10032]

I'm waiting on my wooden box to arrive, within which is Odin

Unless it's delivered by air in the talons of a pair of Ravens, I'm going to suggest that Odin is merely a marketing name

 

[Neeves]

Unless it's delivered by air in the talons of a pair of Ravens, I'm going to suggest that Odin is merely a marketing name

If it comes by sea - I might have retired by then.

But if it comes carried by ravens I will not see the box for months either as quarantine laws will have the Ravens locked up before they can sneak past our Border Force.

Jonathan

 

[LittleSister]

You may be referring to Plastimo's Kobra and, if so, I agree with your comments, fairly cheap, good reputation for setting (and hold) spindly shank and 2 mechanisms for securing shank to fluke. We bought one from a Manchester chandler and took it home as luggage to test. In the nearby marina, to the chandler, was a yacht with a Kobra on the bow with a slight bend in the shank. I then had the shank welded to the fluke as the original concept did not look very secure.

As a budget anchor its one of the best I've seen. I was unaware it 'seems to have disappeared' - they were never available in Oz. The trouble with budget anchors is that they have shaved the costs, somewhere, and some of the savings possibly resulted in the spindly (thin) shank. I don't make anchors (or anything) but a better concept would have been to continue to use the cast fluke, cheap from China, and simply insert a HT shank into a slot - secured with an HT bolt - along the lines of Spade's shank/fluke.
. . .

Yes, that's the one, thanks - the name eluded me at the moment I was posting.

Not disappeared completely, as far as I can see, but most places seem to be 'out of stock', no longer advertising them, or have only certain sizes advertised (typically excluding the 6kg I'd want), so I guess no longer being manufactured.

Yes, a HT steel shank would be an improvement, but come out at a different price point and presumably not fit in Plastimo's anchor types range.

The spindly shank was something I felt I could live with. In my 'home waters' I'm mainly anchoring in mud, where I reckon risk of shank bending is low. So the chances of me ever bending one is low. If I did bend a shank, the anchor would be scrap, but it would be immediately obvious as soon as it was raised. Of, course, I could have one bend and immediately fail to hold when I'm next away cruising, caught out in the ultimate storm and anchored in rocks whatever, but I'd take the chance. (Alternatively, I could sit and wait at home until i win the lottery and can buy myself a premium anchor. )

 

[LittleSister]

I was pondering as I did some domestic chores

Copies? Anchors? ..... Its commonly mentioned as a complaint - but I wonder why

I look at SUVs and apart from the badge, I find difficulty differentiating between the various brands. Modern cars seem to have all the same electronics, including heated steering wheels! even in Australia. Take the label off modern marine electronics - much of a muchness. Sit in an Economy seat in an Airbus or Boeing - is there a difference in the seats, in the cabin.....?

. . .

Copies? Most boats are pointy at least one end, but that doesn't make them all the same!

SUVs (or any type of car) look much of a muchness, but there are big differences in quality - performance (however measured), comfort and durability - between the cheapest and most expensive.

So i don't have a problem at all with someone refining and improving one of the limited number of types of anchor - but the research to achieve that will cost money and time and normally involve some sort of branding/marketing to try to recoup that. Just knocking out cheap something that looks similar, but with no named manufacture/wholesaler standing behind it, is another and valid approach for someone to make a few bob, or use up under-utilised production capacity, but the resulting product will very likely be inferior in performance, which is why I would not buy one. If it comes with a boat I acquire, then I will use it, but get something else if it too often fails or annoys me.

 

[Ray Purchase]

Touching to see two new members in complete accord. So welcome " Ron Burgundy and Roy Purchase"

Jolly brave to pitch into an anchor thread like this

.

Thank you.

 

[Neeves]

Copies? Most boats are pointy at least one end, but that doesn't make them all the same!

SUVs (or any type of car) look much of a muchness, but there are big differences in quality - performance (however measured), comfort and durability - between the cheapest and most expensive.

I'm going to the Sydney Boat Show later in the week - I'll have a look and see if I see the difference between the Ben, Jen, Bavs.

You may well be right but I don't look at the those with Lotto prices and certainly don't drive them - I will rely on your assessment. Cars are a different thing but if you take the 4x4s and use them on the beach I have a really nasty feeling they will all rust at the same rate, which is why we are limited to walking on the beach (and exposure through 'Home and Away'

Jonathan