Hard Top for Blue Angel (Canados 70s)

[vas]

Bart combine the two ideas!

get the shape of the grp (OK the narrower version that ends up at the arch) with two sets of tubing (as P has done on this old boat) so you end up with something cheap, easy to do but doesn't look like the typical simple shape of a flat tent (or slightly curved based on curvature of the ss framing as it will have some substance (thickness on the sides and taper it to the front to make it sleakier

V.

 

[BartW]

Bart combine the two ideas!

get the shape of the grp (OK the narrower version that ends up at the arch) with two sets of tubing (as P has done on this old boat) so you end up with something cheap, easy to do but doesn't look like the typical simple shape of a flat tent (or slightly curved based on curvature of the ss framing as it will have some substance (thickness on the sides and taper it to the front to make it sleakier

V.

Thought about that, and then we are close to option 2 in the options overvieuw post on the previous page

 

[vas]

Thought about that, and then we are close to option 2 in the options overvieuw post on the previous page

yes but option2 on previous page looks crap because there's no lining under the canopy and you can see all the pipes going all over the place.
Add an extra layer of material (thin and preferably different colour to the top) and you're done. You can also fit lighting on slots you'll leave open on the inner lining.
Not a bad option imho.

V.

 

[AndieMac]

......but than again, if doing the effort, the grp solution would be the ideal solution,
and I'm turning in that circle now more than 3 years ... :ambivalence:

It’s going to be a tough decision, canvas or solid.
Cheaper and easier (canvas) may not satisfy you in the longer term, if left up permanently, the canvas/stitching will deteriorate with UV damage, bird crap etc, and it doesn’t insulate you from the intense heat generated from the Med sun like a solid top will.
Canvas and framing will still be relatively costly anyway, and if your mind changes later, you have to start from the beginning again.
As mentioned already, BA is a big boat and would easily carry the look of a solid upper structure, they are becoming a popular, practical option in hot climates, and lets face it, you are not going to move her anywhere colder than the Med

 

[BartW]

It’s going to be a tough decision, canvas or solid.
Cheaper and easier (canvas) may not satisfy you in the longer term, if left up permanently, the canvas/stitching will deteriorate with UV damage, bird crap etc, and it doesn’t insulate you from the intense heat generated from the Med sun like a solid top will.
Canvas and framing will still be relatively costly anyway, and if your mind changes later, you have to start from the beginning again.
As mentioned already, BA is a big boat and would easily carry the look of a solid upper structure, they are becoming a popular, practical option in hot climates, and lets face it, you are not going to move her anywhere colder than the Med

ok, then I'm back were I was last year, lets go for the best,
BUT as I have no time atm (two big projects curently, one with the business and one privately)
how about ordering 4 x SS poles,
and one or two canvas to stretch between the 4 poles and radar arch ....
and a day or so to install all that (measurements drawings are made a few years ago)
brings us back to Feadship example option :nonchalance:

 

[AndieMac]

ok, then I'm back were I was last year, lets go for the best,
BUT as I have no time atm (two big projects curently, one with the business and one privately)
how about ordering 4 x SS poles,
and one or two canvas to stretch between the 4 poles and radar arch ....
and a day or so to install all that (measurements drawings are made a few years ago)
brings us back to Feadship example option :nonchalance:

The Feadship shade-cloth example is setup behind the flybridge. The problem with a BA arrangement is how do you setup the forward edge without a horizontal-ish frame to hold shape to cover the helm area?

 

[MrB]

Not that my opinion counts for anything but i love the look of the HT in the first 3 pics in post #116. It doesn't look top heavy at all, it enhances the boat big time. If that is a Canados factory fit then I would be asking them like JFM did with Match. The others just don't look right on a boat as big as BA.

 

[BartW]

The Feadship shade-cloth example is setup behind the flybridge. The problem with a BA arrangement is how do you setup the forward edge without a horizontal-ish frame to hold shape to cover the helm area?

as explained before (but probably not clear)
2 x SS poles in the position of the old SSB antenna's
and 2 x SS poles fixed on the outside of the FB side bulwarks,
see grey poles in this quick drawing:



and optionally a removeable pole on the back of the navigator seat for extra support in the middle of the wide beam..
all quite easy todo and ok for a few seasons..

 

[BartW]

Not that my opinion counts for anything but i love the look of the HT in the first 3 pics in post #116. It doesn't look top heavy at all, it enhances the boat big time. If that is a Canados factory fit then I would be asking them like JFM did with Match. The others just don't look right on a boat as big as BA.

well you and others give extra motivation to continue the hardtop project thanks :encouragement:
I still have some contacts at the Canados factory and could find out where this hardtop on the pic is made,
but chances are very small that this 201X hardtop fits perfectly on my 199X's boat model,
and in that respect I prefer to go for a completely new made solution.

making the moulds starting from a cnc routed polystyrene model was our plan..

 

[Bouba]

In my humble opinion, a hardtop isn’t necessary unless you’re going to surround it with isinglass and make a flybridge enclosure. But shade is necessary, and I think this one is stunning

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

In my humble opinion, a hardtop isn’t necessary unless you’re going to surround it with isinglass and make a flybridge enclosure.

Agree. Some US boats with only a flybridge helm do need a hardtop with Isinglass surrounds for weather protection. For me the ideal solution for Med boating is an electric folding bimini like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjTi8hMbp6w. It has the advantage of a hard top with sliding roof in that it can be folded back at the touch of a button but it doesnt have the weight penalty of a hard top

 

[MrB]

Agree. Some US boats with only a flybridge helm do need a hardtop with Isinglass surrounds for weather protection. For me the ideal solution for Med boating is an electric folding bimini like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjTi8hMbp6w. It has the advantage of a hard top with sliding roof in that it can be folded back at the touch of a button but it doesnt have the weight penalty of a hard top

That one is a great compromise because it has a thickness that makes it look like a hard top. Nice find Mike.:encouragement:

 

[AndieMac]

Agree. Some US boats with only a flybridge helm do need a hardtop with Isinglass surrounds for weather protection. For me the ideal solution for Med boating is an electric folding bimini like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjTi8hMbp6w. It has the advantage of a hard top with sliding roof in that it can be folded back at the touch of a button but it doesnt have the weight penalty of a hard top

From what I've seen on BA, Bart's lower helm is a storage area, so essentially she is an upper helm boat, and besides the cockpit, the fly area is heavily used. The plan to encapsulate GRP shaped foam should keep the weight to a minimum, and BA always runs with stabilisers on in any sort of sea conditions above calm, so the extra weight up high would be mitigated.
Also, if Bart wants to add solar panels at any stage, a HT provides plenty of mounting space.

Of course the real underlying issue here is that Bart needs another boat customising project, work is one thing, but the true passion is the boat, and it's our job to help justify it

 

[BartW]

Agree. Some US boats with only a flybridge helm do need a hardtop with Isinglass surrounds for weather protection. For me the ideal solution for Med boating is an electric folding bimini like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjTi8hMbp6w. It has the advantage of a hard top with sliding roof in that it can be folded back at the touch of a button but it doesnt have the weight penalty of a hard top

that is a nice find Mike and a very nice looking bimini !
but I won't keep this as a option.

Curently we have a similar manual bimini, and apart from the manual operation, the size is not big enough, it does not reach over the helm station, and the problem with ours is that we alway's have to fold it in, when stronger wind is coming up.
Even when using much more solid contruction / bigger sized tubes, I can't believe this can be made strong enough for withstanding strong wind, let alone a occasional thunderstorm.

and indeed its our aim to have something that can can stay deployed in bad weather, moreover, the big advantage of a hardtop, (or very solid softtop) is the ability to hang side covers with windows, to create winter protection of everything on the FB.

 

[BartW]

From what I've seen on BA, Bart's lower helm is a storage area, so essentially she is an upper helm boat, and besides the cockpit, the fly area is heavily used. The plan to encapsulate GRP shaped foam should keep the weight to a minimum, and BA always runs with stabilisers on in any sort of sea conditions above calm, so the extra weight up high would be mitigated.
Also, if Bart wants to add solar panels at any stage, a HT provides plenty of mounting space.

Of course the real underlying issue here is that Bart needs another boat customising project, work is one thing, but the true passion is the boat, and it's our job to help justify it

its thrue that we hardly ever use the lower helm, only when doing long trajects in winter, or in summer during the very rare occasions with rain.
For manouvring, even when its raining, I go upstairs

but you've got the point mate ;-)
today I found the adress of a supplier of SS tubes in Cagliari,
I'll asc a local ;-) to check if we can get there 4x 3m lengths of 60mm /2mm polished SS Tube,
so when we go there for the yearly maintenance works, early next year,
we can fix the 4 poles, take measurements for the mesch cloths,
so making a quick and easy solution, (similar to the Feadship model) good enough for few seasons.

"tubo di acciaio inossidabile" that is

 

[Hurricane]

that is a nice find Mike and a very nice looking bimini !
but I won't keep this as a option.

Curently we have a similar manual bimini, and apart from the manual operation, the size is not big enough, it does not reach over the helm station, and the problem with ours is that we alway's have to fold it in, when stronger wind is coming up.
Even when using much more solid contruction / bigger sized tubes, I can't believe this can be made strong enough for withstanding strong wind, let alone a occasional thunderstorm.

and indeed its our aim to have something that can can stay deployed in bad weather, moreover, the big advantage of a hardtop, (or very solid softtop) is the ability to hang side covers with windows, to create winter protection of everything on the FB.

I can see your point.
Our bimini is huge and does reach over the helm.

I always consider it like a spinnaker on a sailing boat.
If you don't get it down soon enough before strong wings, its is too late.
That said, if we do make the mistake of leaving it up too long, I turn the boat round (stern into the wind) and run with the wind so that the apparent wind is such that we can handle the bimini.
Ours fold back onto the radar arch like the one in Deleted User's link but without the hydraulic operation.

 

[MapisM]

"tubo di acciaio inossidabile" that is

100% correct. LIterally, stainless steel tube. :encouragement:

Apropos, apologies B, your post just popped to my mind that I should have asked E about steel fabricators in CA area, but I completely forgot.
I'm now a bit further North (65+ degrees N, in fact - brrr...!), but if you are still be interested, we will definitely meet before Xmas.
So, I can explain him what you have in mind and check if he can recommend someone.

 

[5teve]

In Aus all flybridges are covered either by hard or soft tops. Generally enclosed in clears that can be opened, rolled up for hot days and kept shut for winter boating. Having spent so long seeing boats with covered flybridges they look very strange without to me. I guess we don't have many low bridges or the like to worry about, but even the small 26-28ft flybridges we have here are covered..

When closed they take a beating, ours having taken 120+kmh winds this winter with no issues.. but open I can see how they may get damaged... May be worth chexk some of the Aussie boat sales sites for more inspiration and ideas about what not to do!

Steve

 

[BartW]

100% correct. LIterally, stainless steel tube. :encouragement:

Apropos, apologies B, your post just popped to my mind that I should have asked E about steel fabricators in CA area, but I completely forgot.
I'm now a bit further North (65+ degrees N, in fact - brrr...!), but if you are still be interested, we will definitely meet before Xmas.
So, I can explain him what you have in mind and check if he can recommend someone.

no worries P, I've decided to buy one of these small electronic SMAW (stick welding) devices,
they are very cheap and lightweight, and sticks are available for SS 316
so for less than 200euro, I can do the repair of the SS door hinge myself.

do you have enough jackets with you ?
already down south here in Belgium its freezing cold

 

[BartW]

as explained before (but probably not clear)
2 x SS poles in the position of the old SSB antenna's
and 2 x SS poles fixed on the outside of the FB side bulwarks,
see grey poles in this quick drawing:



and optionally a removeable pole on the back of the navigator seat for extra support in the middle of the wide beam..
all quite easy todo and ok for a few seasons..

for now, I've decided to go for this solution, and might replace it all with a hardtop in a few years,
I'm wondering what diameter I should take for the pillars,
compare with the white SSB antenna's, these are less than 40 mm diam
the railing on the bulwark is 40mm diam
the 2 pillars in the cockpit, I believe these are 60mm diam, (not visible on the picture above) tobe checked by the crew onboard ;-)

I think that the cover will look nice with solid pillars , of 60mm diam or more.