Handling gusts when sailing on a broad reach?

Sire

Sire

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Hi folks,

What's the best way of keeping things reasonably under control if hit by a really hard gust while sailing downwind?

We were out for an afternoon's sail today- my last possibility to get out on the water before my next Finland <-> UK trucking trip. On the return leg, sailing with the wind coming over the starboard quarter, we were surprised by a really strong gust that had us over to around 45 degrees of heel in about half a second.

Had I been by myself, I think i would have just hung on to the tiller, tried to keep my course, and wait for it to blow over.

SWMBO is very new to sailing (and I am very new to something this size, albeit our boat is only 17') and she prefers sailing fairly upright, so I did what I would have done with my dinghy, and turned up into the wind. The main was out on the shrouds, and I'm sure I couldn't have un-cleated the jib. The problem is that a half a ton of trailer-sailer doesn't spin round like a dinghy, and it was a few seconds before the power was off, until which time we were heeled over quite firmly!

Once the gust was over, everything was back to the previous force 3-4. The question is, what is the most comfortable / safest way of dealing with surprises like this?

Thanks in advance (my internet access will be sporadic over the next week to ten days as I'll be on the road - will be going as far as Minehead on this trip, quite close to where I grew up).

"Z"
 
In a puff - start to luff
in a lull - keep her full

Applies with the wind forward of the beam but on a broad reach I would reckon it's time to think about putting a reef in
 
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I'd let it up into the wind to de-power

Some boats I've sailed have been much worse than others - particularly flat wide sterns where the rudder can trip once heeled.

If it's a short gust and a smallish boat I might try to hold on, but otherwise the boat swinging into the wind is a good sign that less sail is needed or you fancy a wild but fast ride until you have to reef anyway.

The first adjustment for me would be letting the traveller all the way down, then ensuring the main is as far out as practical for the non-gust wind strength and direction. But even then I'd probably just be delaying the point at which I should reef. Other options to keep temporary control are ensuring the vang is keeping the sail fairly flat.

A couple of times it's happened when I was very near some hard looking cliffs going along nicely parallel to them and been shoved around towards the wind and flying along straight towards the rocks.

Having not left enough time to tack one time, or failing to tack due to the wave size, I've actually let go the main halyard, at which point the jib took over and allowed me back onto the broad reach and away from trouble. I then rehoisted a lot less main.
 
zetorpilot said:
Hi folks,

What's the best way of keeping things reasonably under control if hit by a really hard gust while sailing downwind?

We were out for an afternoon's sail today- my last possibility to get out on the water before my next Finland <-> UK trucking trip. On the return leg, sailing with the wind coming over the starboard quarter, we were surprised by a really strong gust that had us over to around 45 degrees of heel in about half a second.

Had I been by myself, I think i would have just hung on to the tiller, tried to keep my course, and wait for it to blow over.

SWMBO is very new to sailing (and I am very new to something this size, albeit our boat is only 17') and she prefers sailing fairly upright, so I did what I would have done with my dinghy, and turned up into the wind. The main was out on the shrouds, and I'm sure I couldn't have un-cleated the jib. The problem is that a half a ton of trailer-sailer doesn't spin round like a dinghy, and it was a few seconds before the power was off, until which time we were heeled over quite firmly!

Once the gust was over, everything was back to the previous force 3-4. The question is, what is the most comfortable / safest way of dealing with surprises like this?

Thanks in advance (my internet access will be sporadic over the next week to ten days as I'll be on the road - will be going as far as Minehead on this trip, quite close to where I grew up).

"Z"
Click to expand...

Hi, with new sailors on board I tend to just use the foresail.No chance of a boom related incedent and "front wheel drive" can give an easy ride.
 
The problem with this situation is that the centre of effort on ( 90% ) the mainsail is a long way out beyond the centre of lateral resistance - the keel - so the main has a lot of leverage.

Rounding up to 'luff through a puff' in these conditions will have the boat n her ear, it can seem like centrifugal force throwing the rig out and down, and sometimes it is !

It depends on a lot of things, like boat and helmsman skill, but the actual way to keep things relatively calm IF confident boat and conditions allow, is to 'steer square', actually going helm up a touch, DOWN wind.

This is risking a big gybe, and stand by for the howls of protest, but this is what racing dinghies do, when rounding up would mean an instant capsize.

If steering off downwind, you are on a knife edge, not least because you'll be going fast and rudder response is quick; if you have a lifting swing keel, gently half raise it to avoid the boat steering 'hard mouthed' and ivoting around the forefoot of the bow.

If you have a masthead wind direction indicator or burgee, the golden rule is to keep the wind just blowing onto the mainsail.

This tactic will keep the boat upright, but as I say risks a gybe, beware wind direction changes in gusts / squalls, get the hatch/es shut double quick and keep the crews' heads below boom height whatever you do.

This would be a good time for combined harness / lifejackets clipped on, which hopefully you'll have anyway if such conditions are likely.

Not difficult, but moderately risky; well, you asked !
 
The problem with easing the kicker is it invites a 'Chinese Gybe' with the top part of the main flipping over; this can easily tear the sail right along the panel lines, which as well as causing tricky handling for a little while and much expense, is also a sod to get down later !
I used to ease the kicker to 'scandalise', which can involve using the topping lift too, but now believe in keeping it very tight and steering, for bermudan rigged boats..

A scandalised main tends to exert a lot of wobbly free moving force up aloft, in an undesirable way, on a 'standard' modern boat, compared to keeping everything tight.

There is the other form of scandalising ( de-powering ) by sheeting the main in tight when running, this needs a tight kicker as it also invites a Chinese gybe to a lesser extent, and the boat must not be allowed to get side on to the wind at all or the main must be dumped to full extent ( short of the shrouds ) instantly.

One way of doing this is to grab the whole mainsheet purchase, all 4 or so lines, have the sheet itself let out to full extent and pull the lot in by hand so it can be let go instantly rather than fed out through blocks; this works particularly well on 'reach - tack - reach' MOB recovery too.
 
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I concur with Seajet on this one!

I sail a 505 dinghy which this is the only tactic to use if you don't want to go swimming! :D
 
It's a matter of 'keeping the boat under the mast'.

If it's gusty, leave the vang loose and dump the mainsheet when the gust rolls in. The top of the sail will flog, but crucially, won't deliver power.

And/or. Bear away downwind hard and smoothly - not dead downwind, but close to. This will stall the main and blanket the jib. All will be calm.
 
If you can bear off or even maintain course do so. rounding up will cause extra heel as the momentum of the boat lays her over. If you start to broach dump the kicker - standard practice when racing in heavy weather. One some boats we'd even play the kicker to msintsin control.

Never seen any problems like Seajet describes with easing the kicker starting a gybe and tearing the sail. If anything a loose kicker helps you sail by the lee whereas a ticht leech would make the main more liable to be flicked over.
 
dt4134 said:
If you can bear off or even maintain course do so. rounding up will cause extra heel as the momentum of the boat lays her over. If you start to broach dump the kicker - standard practice when racing in heavy weather. One some boats we'd even play the kicker to msintsin control.

Never seen any problems like Seajet describes with easing the kicker starting a gybe and tearing the sail. If anything a loose kicker helps you sail by the lee whereas a ticht leech would make the main more liable to be flicked over.
Click to expand...

Please do read my post, hard won & paid for experience; if dumping the kicker / vang there's a lot at the top to go jelly-like, I've found tight control and having the mainsheet ready to let off, and CLR trim if possible is one answer, if the helmsman & crew can handle steering off bearing away as others have since agreed.
 
Reacting in a sudden gust

You must remember dinghies can accelerate and plane so that turning downwind in a gust on a reach will reduce apparent wind by increasing boat speed.
On the other hand your TS will probably not increase in speed much beyond "hull speed" `so you will end up with more pressure in the rig. It may not heel so much but will be much more susceptible to losing control in a broach. I have often been in this situation with spin up overpowered and going fast. But there is this huge risk of the boat turning up wind to the reach and beyond with eventually the mast in the water. I can't bear to think of a gybe in these conditions except as said keep your head down and hang on.

So I would do exactly as you did. Turn into the wind to reduce heeling pressure. Presumably you had sea room to turn into the wind. Let the main sail completely loose and luffing. Wait for the gust to pass then start ot return to course and pull some main on.
Of course if you have time you should be increasing outhaul tension pulling down a cunningham eye if fitted and increasing halyard tension. Crank on the backstay especially if it is fractional rigged and of course reduce jib and put a reef in.

Of interest is that my trailer sailer is also very difficult on a reach in a blow. One particular course we race has a beat to windward to a buoy that then turns to a reach. You tend to relax after the beat only to find the boat heels more on the reach despite easing jib and main. The heeling of course giving more weather helm. It is always a relief to get back on the wind or bear away for the next leg. Yes almost always overpowered.

PS just did a little driving holiday to the north of here. (2800km) To Exmouth nice coral snorkelling. This is the land of the road train. You get a truck with semi trailer, 22 wheels, with another trailer behind (another 20 wheels) and occasionally another 20 wheel trailer behind that. They trundle along at 100Kph. The truck stops have huge parking areas. You don't overtake a road train in your car without some concern.

have a good trip olewill
 
With a few (I note they are performance sailors!) agreeing with me I better qualify my statement ...

I've come from a world of performance dinghy racing - finely balancing crew, boat & wind - when I first started on the asymetrics I tried luffing from a broad reach and usually capsized - lesson - if you're overpressed on a broad reach it'll be worse on a beam reach! But this was dinghies and the methods don't always translate 100% into yachts.

Bearing away in a gust works in the main ... gusts being temporary and all that ... it does require an active helm - autopilot doesn't work - nor does someone doggedly sailing to a compass course or who cannot feel the wind ...
Conditions where you're likely to want to bear away will come with a reasonable sea - and you'll mostly be turning to go with the waves rather than across them. My experience has been that this happens when you're on top of the wave - not in the trough .. so you get the extra speed from a downhill run as well ...

It can get to the point where you're constantly bearing away - at this point you do have too much sail up - reducing the main before the genoa will ensure that you'll still be able to bear away - but unless you're in an in-mast rig you'll have to turn into the wind to reduce the main .. which means going past the beam reach - beam onto the wind AND sea and the greatest opportunity to roll ... which is why I'll NOT luff from a broad reach in a gust.
 
Controlled Luff and Trim

As the power comes and speed picks up trim by getting weight aft and out to the windward quarter. You should feel a noticeable increase in tiller response. Small and tiller movement to control the boat is key. Don't touch the kicker. If the power is still on then feed the bow round to windward slowly, using the tiller to control the rate of turn. Keep doing this slowly and the main depowers without the hull healing. If you have a centreboard that is designed to be adjusted while sailing make sure it is 3/4 up. I have used this method many times. It's the speed of the luff up that is important. Going on the run works as well but with novice crew it can introduce other concerns.
 
When running reef the main early.

The wind strength is greater than you feel, and if you are hard pressed off the wind, getting some main down is going to be pretty unpleasant. Reef the headsail last down wind since you can dump it without the need to come up to the wind.

If you have to come up to the wind (eg man overboard; collision avoidance) with everything up in a fresh wind then you will really wish that you had not left it.
 
fireball said:
With a few (I note they are performance sailors!) agreeing with me I better qualify my statement ...

I've come from a world of performance dinghy racing - finely balancing crew, boat & wind - when I first started on the asymetrics I tried luffing from a broad reach and usually capsized - lesson - if you're overpressed on a broad reach it'll be worse on a beam reach! But this was dinghies and the methods don't always translate 100% into yachts.

Bearing away in a gust works in the main ... gusts being temporary and all that ... it does require an active helm - autopilot doesn't work - nor does someone doggedly sailing to a compass course or who cannot feel the wind ...
Conditions where you're likely to want to bear away will come with a reasonable sea - and you'll mostly be turning to go with the waves rather than across them. My experience has been that this happens when you're on top of the wave - not in the trough .. so you get the extra speed from a downhill run as well ...

It can get to the point where you're constantly bearing away - at this point you do have too much sail up - reducing the main before the genoa will ensure that you'll still be able to bear away - but unless you're in an in-mast rig you'll have to turn into the wind to reduce the main .. which means going past the beam reach - beam onto the wind AND sea and the greatest opportunity to roll ... which is why I'll NOT luff from a broad reach in a gust.
Click to expand...

I agree with this logic - also came to bigger boats through dinghies with asymmetric kites. If you are broad reaching with more sail than is strictly sensible (it's good fun until you realise the problem...), the only thing to do is go DEEP as possible, if your sea room allows.
With a kite - forget luffing - suicide. You have a chance of dumping the tack line -or otherwise disposing of the kite behind the main if it eases off.
If I thought I was going to be on a broad reach in say a F5 for a while -I'd be tempted not to bother with the main, since the boat will go like a train on a smaller genny anyway.
On points of sail to windward, provided you haven't sunk the toe rail, occasionally rounding up - when you can't effectively dump the main does work. Not elegant... but it works.
The moral is watch behind you, and don't get caught with too much canvas up in bigger seas.

Graeme
 
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