Hampton Court Place Moorings BEWARE

[normskib]

Out of Curiosity I decided to check the What could be easier where to 2 moor website for Hampton Court Palace Moorings where it states quite clearly moring cost 24 hours and £8 per 24hrs thereafter maximum stay five days , no mention whatsoever of pre-pay moo rings and even if it did why on earth would you attempt to pre-pay if you had no intention of staying for 24 hours ! It was I did you Moored your Boat didn’t go wandering up and down to check the totally inadequate signage you would have no way of knowing from you where 2 Moore website that it was necessary to announce your arrival . I would love to know just how many Boat owners have been caught out by this clear as mud information in my travels I have spoken to just four other Boat owners and I swear to God including myself two of the other Boaters that have used the Hampton Court moorings have been caught out and have either paid or as I am facing an exorbitant not fine but more in charge ! Three out of four I find that incredible DE Really have got a license to print money .

 

[No Regrets]

Other club members have stopped, registered and paid for the second 24 hours, yet still been sent two consecutive £100 demands.

I suspect DE just keep posting them out on the basis some people buckle and pay.

I would hit the EA who should not be giving out personal information. Look at your River licence application and the EA website and both state they will not give out your information to third parties, unless for a criminal act such as environmental pollution...

 

[Old Crusty]

I've also had a response from Barbara Tyldesley, EA data protection officer, confirming that she is seeking advice regarding the circumstances when the EA may pass my contact details to a third party working on behalf of another third party.

If everyone affected writes to her, a head of steam will build and pile on the pressure. Despite that, a formal complaint to the ICO by all boaters affected will flag up this problem with the regulator.

 

[Outinthedinghy]

I'm sure that Loddon was correct earlier in this thread that DE had access to EA ownership database at one stage but no longer have access to it.
It would be interesting to know if anyone who no longer owns a boat has had any comms from DE. That would prove the theory!

 

[ianc1200]

In the end, what is the problem? The liveaboards/long stayers have created a situation which needs controlling. The poor person who pays their river licence, pays for a marina/boatyard to keep their boat, then goes out and finds all the visitor moorings full of scruffy liveaboards or retired boaters on 70' narrowboats who only move once a week will be fully supportive of the various schemes that are happening - it means there's somewhere to moor for the night. I have sympathy with the OP who didn't see the sign, but that is so similar to the parking restrictions in small town car parks & many supermarkets (& here in Henley the doctors surgery car park) that many have got used to, and similarly it's been caused by people who want to stay forever & not pay. I welcome such initiatives, it means I'll have a good chance of mooring above Sonning lock/Pangbourne/Beale Park when a few years ago I wouldn't. No problem if you moor for 24 hours and move on!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Boarding boats even though the Master of a vessel holds sovereign authority on the boat and can arrest someone who boards and/or does not leave immediately on the Master’s order.

That's quite a claim. Do you have a legal reference for it?

 

[Old Crusty]

That's quite a claim. Do you have a legal reference for it?

I was quoting from the K&A boating community website and the comment was made by the NBTA.

That said, your boat is your property and no-one may board without your consent. That explains why EA enforcement officers, patrol boat officers, technical officers and team leaders are required to hold a level 2 warrant under the Water Resources Act and the Environment Act that gives authority to access premises of all descriptions in order to execute their duties. Anyone boarding or checking your boat for a licence or sticking a notice on your boat must be warranted.

The level 2 warrant comes in two parts, a plastic ID card and a paper document, a bit like the old driving licence. If you are present when they wish to board, check they are carrying the paper part as well. Without that, the warrant is invalid so you can refuse access.

I don't know if the DE squad are warranted but it's worth checking as usually, you have to be an EA employee to get a level 2 warrant.

 

[Old Crusty]

In the end, what is the problem? The liveaboards/long stayers have created a situation which needs controlling. The poor person who pays their river licence, pays for a marina/boatyard to keep their boat, then goes out and finds all the visitor moorings full of scruffy liveaboards or retired boaters on 70' narrowboats who only move once a week will be fully supportive of the various schemes that are happening - it means there's somewhere to moor for the night. I have sympathy with the OP who didn't see the sign, but that is so similar to the parking restrictions in small town car parks & many supermarkets (& here in Henley the doctors surgery car park) that many have got used to, and similarly it's been caused by people who want to stay forever & not pay. I welcome such initiatives, it means I'll have a good chance of mooring above Sonning lock/Pangbourne/Beale Park when a few years ago I wouldn't. No problem if you moor for 24 hours and move on!

I doubt anyone would argue your point about managing moorings but this is about the misuse of personal data by government bodies for the benefit of third parties and contrary to the GDPR and their own data policy.

 

[ProDave]

In the end, what is the problem? The liveaboards/long stayers have created a situation which needs controlling. The poor person who pays their river licence, pays for a marina/boatyard to keep their boat, then goes out and finds all the visitor moorings full of scruffy liveaboards or retired boaters on 70' narrowboats who only move once a week will be fully supportive of the various schemes that are happening - it means there's somewhere to moor for the night. I have sympathy with the OP who didn't see the sign, but that is so similar to the parking restrictions in small town car parks & many supermarkets (& here in Henley the doctors surgery car park) that many have got used to, and similarly it's been caused by people who want to stay forever & not pay. I welcome such initiatives, it means I'll have a good chance of mooring above Sonning lock/Pangbourne/Beale Park when a few years ago I wouldn't. No problem if you moor for 24 hours and move on!

Most people would not object to that, if the mooring charges are reasonable, clearly signed and advertised and easy to pay.

In the case of the OP he did not see the sign so did not pay. If DE had just sent him a "please pay your £8 mooring fee" letter, I am willing to bet he would just have paid it.

Instead it was a £100 fine for not paying the fee. It's that heavy handed and deliberately extorting money tactics that people are objecting to.

 

[Chris_d]

Most people would not object to that, if the mooring charges are reasonable, clearly signed and advertised and easy to pay.

In the case of the OP he did not see the sign so did not pay. If DE had just sent him a "please pay your £8 mooring fee" letter, I am willing to bet he would just have paid it.

Instead it was a £100 fine for not paying the fee. It's that heavy handed and deliberately extorting money tactics that people are objecting to.

I thought he was fined for not reporting his time of arrival? an £8 fee is only due if your stay for more than 24hrs.
This was how TVM operated, thankfully now gone.

The data protection is another separate issue, but for me the whole registering your arrival thing at free 24hr mooring sites if you have no intention of staying more than a few hours is ruining the river forever

The OP committed no crime, he only stayed a few hours and left, no fee was due. He has been extorted out of £100 by the greed of a private company misusing data.

 

[ianc1200]

Chris d I agree it is affecting the casual use of the river, but without such measures we couldn't use the river at all. And again, the EA may be in breach of GDPR, and I certainly sympathize with the OP, but it's all to get back some sort of control over the many freeloaders using the river who don't want to pay their way.

 

[Leighb]

Reading this thread makes me awfully glad we had our Thames visit last year, we thoroughly enjoyed our time and did not have any random "fines" I am glad to say. Something like that could make one not wish to return.

 

[TrueBlue]

Reading this thread makes me awfully glad we had our Thames visit last year, we thoroughly enjoyed our time and did not have any random "fines" I am glad to say. Something like that could make one not wish to return.

FWIW - and for potential visitors, it's only at Hampton Court Palace where there has been an issue.
DE only operate two sites on the Thames, HCP and Reading. The site in the centre of Reading is clearly marked, but the mooring near Tesco's superstore is not (or was when we last passed by).

Though inconvenient, it's hardly a show stopper.

 

[normskib]

I’m afraid your wrong there True Blue DE are now running rough shod over Barge Walk in Kingston ��

 

[Chris_d]

Unfortunately the box has been opened, just look at this DE sign used in Reading:

You don't even have to touch the bank to incur a fine.
TVM started this format with all the best intentions, but it is now being copied by other riparian owners up and down the river. Can you imagine a river lined with CCTV and boat name recognition tech, it hardly new anymore.
Is this really what boaters want?
Personaly I was pleased the TVM was dropped by the EA and this method of enforcement, I know others disagree but you have to be careful what you wish for.

 

[normskib]

We’re all doomed I tell ya !

 

[ianc1200]

Interesting re the anchoring bit in the notice - or remaining stationary. They can trump the Thames Conservancy Act?

 

[ProDave]

So if you slow down to "stationary" without touching the bank, in order that you can read the notice and decide whether to moor, you could get hit with the £100

I get the feeling if I were boating on the Thames right now, I would have the boat name covered up. Does it say anywhere in your river licence that you must display the boat name?

 

[TrueBlue]

So if you slow down to "stationary" without touching the bank, in order that you can read the notice and decide whether to moor, you could get hit with the £100

I get the feeling if I were boating on the Thames right now, I would have the boat name covered up. Does it say anywhere in your river licence that you must display the boat name?

It does in the Ts & Cs - on the bow and at the stern.

The stationary bit is probably 'unlawful', given that the water 'belongs' to the EA. It's a try-on by a car parking company adapting its land based 'rules' to an unfamiliar medium. They know that a serious challenge is unlikely to appear.

 

[normskib]

Stationary bit probably unlawful ! Water belongs to the EA ! Less we forget that DE are hand in glove with the EA with the latter handing out legitimate Boaters private Data protected information to the former on request Think about the implications !!!