halyards for small cruising yacht

[davidmh]

Its time to renew some the halyards on Quicksilver. All the halyards are braided and 12mm, quite old, some will live for another year, some need replacing nowas they have become hard and the mast sheaves tend to become tight. Solent Supertstors stock mainly Marlow and force 4 mainly Liros, both usually give good prices. What is the forims experience of use Marlow Braid and Marlow double braid for Halyards. Marlow say either can be used, which do you think is best, price seems to be the same., Marlow suggest 10mm is the right size, Is the halyard info from Marlow for headsils based on a sail on a furler systerm or a hanked on system. I would have thought that the hanked on sail would need a bigger dia than the furling one.
David MH

 

[PabloPicasso]

Dyneema for halyard.
I'm planning to swap my main halyard for a dyneema core with a braided cover.

Not sure which to get though...

 

[fredrussell]

Also prefer cruising dyneema for halyards. That said, if getting braid on braid, Kingfisher rope is a bit cheaper than Marlow, etc and I’ve never had a problem with it. What size boat/ sail area? Personally, I’d go for the thinnest line that your hands and deck gear can cope with. Less friction so easier hoists/drops.

 

[ridgy]

If he's willing to tolerate manky hard halyards then he's probably not a dyneema sort of chap.

Have you tried taking them off and putting in the washing machine?

How small is small? Anyway I'd vote Liros Evo or marlowbraid 10mm up to 35 feet. Cruising dyneema if feeling sporty and generous. Maybe 12 above that size.

 

[davidmh]

boat size 27 ft 4 ton, pure cruising boat. have wahed and scrubbed them all, some have come up ok and can be reused, other are past it and will be replaced.
Ridgy has it right, no dyneema, needed, 10mm is what Marlow suggest. Thanks for the comment that puts Marlow braid in the same category as Liros EV.
David MH

 

[Chiara’s slave]

boat size 27 ft 4 ton, pure cruising boat. have wahed and scrubbed them all, some have come up ok and can be reused, other are past it and will be replaced.
Ridgy has it right, no dyneema, needed, 10mm is what Marlow suggest. Thanks for the comment that puts Marlow braid in the same category as Liros EV.
David MH

Once you’ve tried dyneema, you’ll wonder why you were so stupid as to leave it so long. Try Jimmy Green for offcuts/end of reel, you never know. That way it’s no more expensive than double braid. You may not need dyneema to hoist your old rags, but they’ll set so much better for it, most particularly when the wind gets up.

 

[MontyMariner]

I would have thought that the hanked on sail would need a bigger dia than the furling one.

Sail size for sail size, there shouldn't need to be any difference in rope sizes.

 

[Channel Sailor]

If they were 12mm before, you are happy with the sail shape, happy with how it is in your hands, it fits the cleats/winches/jammers, you are happy with the bowlines and halyard knots. …. then I suggest use 12mm Marlowbraid or similar again. if you want to reduce the friction then I suggest dyneema core at a smaller size. As you move along the path to increasing dyneema application and smaller diameter lines then take care your knot strength, hands, winches, jammers and cleats will work ok with the change.

 

[Tranona]

boat size 27 ft 4 ton, pure cruising boat. have wahed and scrubbed them all, some have come up ok and can be reused, other are past it and will be replaced.
Ridgy has it right, no dyneema, needed, 10mm is what Marlow suggest. Thanks for the comment that puts Marlow braid in the same category as Liros EV.
David MH

Even 10mm is a bit OTT. 8mm braid on braid would be fine. You can sometimes get Liros reel ends here marinescene.co.uk or if you have a number to do get a 100m reel and make your own.

 

[ridgy]

Even 10mm is a bit OTT. 8mm braid on braid would be fine. You can sometimes get Liros reel ends here marinescene.co.uk or if you have a number to do get a 100m reel and make your own.

From a technical strength point of view maybe but if the sheaves will take 10 then no reason not to do it. Climbing the mast...10 feels better.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

From a technical strength point of view maybe but if the sheaves will take 10 then no reason not to do it. Climbing the mast...10 feels better.

The main reason for such huge lines on a comparatively small boat is to try to keep the stretch in reasonable control. 12mm isn’t at all OTT for that. 8mm dyneema would do the job better though.

 

[Refueler]

Also prefer cruising dyneema for halyards. That said, if getting braid on braid, Kingfisher rope is a bit cheaper than Marlow, etc and I’ve never had a problem with it. What size boat/ sail area? Personally, I’d go for the thinnest line that your hands and deck gear can cope with. Less friction so easier hoists/drops.

I buy reels of Kingfisher online .... and I am very happy with it ... in fact I am looking at buying more to start replacing on my 38ft'r.

For a small boat - as long as the sheaves are OK - 10mm is fine ...

As to Furler / Hanked on ... it really makes no difference ...

Totally agree with Fred ... its not only the size to suit the gear / sails ... but also what fits the hands well ...

The old halyards make excellent general purpose lines ...mooring etc.

 

[Stemar]

6mm would be plenty strong enough, but horrible to use. When it comes to handling, the bigger, the better, 10mm would be OK but, if it'll fit, 12mm would be kinder on the hands.

 

[Boathook]

The old halyards make excellent general purpose lines ...mooring etc.

I gave up using old halyards as mooring lines. Not enough stretch in them, especially in windy weather.

 

[dansaskip]

Me I have always preferred Liros to Marlow. 10mm is what I use (28' boat) and is good to handle don't need 12mm and despite people saying with to dynema braid on braid is fine.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And despite people saying braid on braid is fine…. It is. But a dyneema equipped boat will point higher, foot faster snd heel less. Personally I cannot understand why anyone wouldn’t want that, so it must all come down to money. Our entire boat is rigged with dnd of reels, except for the brand new, still virgin, reefing lines. The reel ends I got for those were a bit too fat, and had too much friction. About 25 metres of green Liros 8mm dyneema is sitting under my desk. Little used, its reef 2, but a tiny bit grubby.

 

[Tranona]

Not sure about the "easy to handle2 bit in respect of halyards. How often do you have to handle them? and most boats of that size have winches and probably clutches.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Not sure about the "easy to handle2 bit in respect of halyards. How often do you have to handle them? and most boats of that size have winches and probably clutches.

True enough. We have 6mm for our jib car adjusters. This is fine, cos in anything more than 8kn of wind, there is no way any human could pull them anyway.

 

[davidmh]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I spoke to marlow about Marlowbraid, it is being phased out in the Uk and the doublebraid has been improved. The replacement for martlowbraid will be the D2 club dyneema cored rope which has the same outer as the old marlowbraid. Cost is about 40% more. That explains why many of the big chandlers do not have any marlowbraid at present,
I dont use bowlines on halyards I use a halyard hitch and sew the end, has worked for me for years, it is compact and the only problem is undoing it after use, it sets really tight, makes it easy the end for end the halyard to even out the wear in the clutch area.
Providing my Halyards are free from damage but just grubby it is fine by me, at £80 for a 25m halyard I have better things to do with my money.
David H

 

[MADRIGAL]

Once you’ve tried dyneema, you’ll wonder why you were so stupid as to leave it so long. Try Jimmy Green for offcuts/end of reel, you never know. That way it’s no more expensive than double braid. You may not need dyneema to hoist your old rags, but they’ll set so much better for it, most particularly when the wind gets up.

There is no question that both our Genoa and the working jib set better with the Dyneema halyard. I replaced a wire halyard with a rope tail with Dyneema when the wire broke at the block, and the difference in sail set and pointing ability is noticeable. The double braided main halyard is due to be renewed, so I'm saving up for Dyneema for that one too. I expect a non-stretch halyard will help to flatten the main luff when the wind gets up.