Hallberg Rassy - teak decks.

[Tin Tin]

A friend of mine is considering the purchase of a 1985 vintage HR 312 and asked me along to take a look at her.

All in all, she seemed to be a fine boat and in great shape for her age.
With one possible caveat: the teak decks are still original. It had rained in the hours prior to our visit. Large parts of the decks had dried when we arrived, but some parts (mainly around the shrouds) we still wet/humid.

I have always avoided teak decks on my boats, so I am not really in a position to give advice.

Hence my question on here: anyone have any experience with this model of similar vintage?
Is it a teak on GRP construction or something else like teak on ply on GRP?
Anyone replaced a teak deck on a HR? Cost?

My instincts tell me that he should walk away but he seems quite smitten with the boat.

 

[scotty123]

A friend of mine is considering the purchase of a 1985 vintage HR 312 and asked me along to take a look at her.

All in all, she seemed to be a fine boat and in great shape for her age.
With one possible caveat: the teak decks are still original. It had rained in the hours prior to our visit. Large parts of the decks had dried when we arrived, but some parts (mainly around the shrouds) we still wet/humid.

I have always avoided teak decks on my boats, so I am not really in a position to give advice.

Hence my question on here: anyone have any experience with this model of similar vintage?
Is it a teak on GRP construction or something else like teak on ply on GRP?
Anyone replaced a teak deck on a HR? Cost?

My instincts tell me that he should walk away but he seems quite smitten with the boat.

Looked at a similar HR about 10yrs ago for a mate.
The teak deck was obviously bouncing & the cost for replacement about £25-30,000.

 

[pvb]

I have always avoided teak decks on my boats, so I am not really in a position to give advice.

Hence my question on here: anyone have any experience with this model of similar vintage?
Is it a teak on GRP construction or something else like teak on ply on GRP?
Anyone replaced a teak deck on a HR? Cost?

My instincts tell me that he should walk away but he seems quite smitten with the boat.

I had a 1990 HR352 for around 20 years. I bought it at 5 years old, and there had already been some wear on the deck from insensitive cleaning. I treated the deck very gently, using Boracol as HR recommend. Despite this, the teak inevitably wore down to the point where the plugs were popping out and the caulking was standing proud of the wood. I firstly trimmed off the excess caulking with a craft knife, then very gently sanded the deck to get it fairly smooth. The pic below shows the result. A couple of years later, some of the caulking was coming loose and I replaced it (not an easy job). I tackled each missing plug by removing the screw, deepening the hole with a Forstner bit, then using a new low-profile screw and a new plug. It took ages! By about 2013, it was becoming obvious that the deck would need replacing in the not-too-distant future. I started to get quotes, but they were in the £25-30K region, and I simply couldn't come to terms with spending that amount, knowing that it might only increase the boat's value by about £5K. So I reluctantly sold it.

The teak is glued and screwed on to the fibreglass deck. The deck is a sandwich construction, but uses closed cell foam so water ingress past the screws shouldn't cause massive problems.

Hallberg-Rassy use a rather narrow plank width, which means that there are more planks to fit, increasing the labour cost significantly. I was told this was why the quotes I was getting were so high. I've seen HRs with replacement decks using wider planks, but they somehow don't look right. It's possible to replace with fake teak, but the labour cost is still the same.

One other note of caution is that most HRs of that vintage were caulked with a silicone caulk, and ideally any repairs should use the same stuff or there may be adhesion problems.

I think your instinct, to advise your friend to walk away, is correct. Presumably the boat is on offer at around £30K, and even if he could get the deck replaced for £15K it would still only be a £35K boat.

 

[doug748]

......

My instincts tell me that he should walk away but he seems quite smitten with the boat.

Here are some words of wisdom from Uncle Tom:

Including a useful sounding lead for the future if your pal decides to do the business.

 

[Biggles Wader]

It seems odd to me that the "market value" of 30-35 year old boats with teak decks does not reflect the fact that a large amount of money is likely to need spending on them. If I was buying one I would budget accordingly and if my offer was too low Id walk away.

 

[pvb]

It seems odd to me that the "market value" of 30-35 year old boats with teak decks does not reflect the fact that a large amount of money is likely to need spending on them. If I was buying one I would budget accordingly and if my offer was too low Id walk away.

The problem is that the cost of renewal isn't far off the value of many of the boats. So if you saw a £30K boat which needed £20K of new deck, would you offer £10K?

 

[ryanroberts]

Might make a lot more sense to bargain down a 100+ grand Mason 44 than a 35k boat?

Have been looking at this and the side deck has pretty obviously seen better days https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/freedom-yachts-freedom-35-3066011/. How much does it cost to go down to fibreglass on this sort of length?

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I'm fairly neutral about teak decks but technology has marched on in their construction and probable replacement.

Computers can now produce plans for great big chunks of decking that is then glued and vacuum packed . Where a deck may have taken two men three months to build it can now be done in three weeks. It helps to keep the cost down in new builds but the replacement of
used decks probably depends on what the teak is attached to.

 

[Tin Tin]

the replacement of used decks probably depends on what the teak is attached to.

My thoughts exactly.
I was particularly fearful as in the 80's the build process of teak on ply on GRP was quite common.
And this would be particularly expensive to remedy.

 

[Graham376]

We had a survey on a HR352, maybe 18 years or so ago and the quote for stripping and replacing one side deck was £7k then. We walked away.

 

[pvb]

My thoughts exactly.
I was particularly fearful as in the 80's the build process of teak on ply on GRP was quite common.
And this would be particularly expensive to remedy.

There's no ply involved in a Hallberg-Rassy teak deck.

 

[pandos]

you could take off the teak and have a painted deck.

many have a few layers of glass and an epoxy finish,,

depending on your knees this could be a cheap option..

My 352 had a fake teak on it which I removed, drilled out the holes and filled them and then filled/sanded the deck and painted.

If I was doing it again I would make templates of sections and make/get made fiberglass sections with a nonslip pattern around 6mm thick and then bond these on over the substrate,,, just need to gelcoat the margins and I would end up with a nice deck reinforced where needed (a bit like threadmaster is laid in sections)...

 

[Zing]

Teak costs about £250 per m2 plus strip and lay and caulk cost. That can be anything from zero to triple the wood cost. For an old, cheap boat, the sensible outcome is to strip it off.

 

[rszemeti]

Teak costs about £250 per m2 plus strip and lay and caulk cost. That can be anything from zero to triple the wood cost. For an old, cheap boat, the sensible outcome is to strip it off.

The cheapest way to buy teak is to buy it as 50mm x 225mm planks and pay a subcontractor to saw it down and thickness it.

 

[Kelpie]

Mads from 'Sail Life' has made a series of Youtube videos showing, in intricate detail, his massive project of stripping off the teak decks from a Warrior 40 and using KiwiGrip paint to make it all good. Might be applicable to a HR as well?
He's quite engaging but the whole process takes a while and it feels like you're watching it in real time...

 

[simonfraser]

has it separated from the substrate ?
if not, sand it down, fix the damaged / missing caulking and put sikkens cetol clear on in
sikkens cetol 'repairs' very well, you don't have to strip the whole deck as and when it scratches / chips

have done this on the aft platform of my boat, not perfect, but what is ?

 

[Stemar]

For me a teak deck would be a bigger no-no than a duff engine or bent mast. I'd consider a boat with one, but would budget for removal and making good as described above. However, I do wonder what that would do to the value. If a new teak deck adds £5K, for an HR, where a buyer expects to find teak, would GRP/ nonslip paint subtract £5K?

 

[rszemeti]

has it separated from the substrate ?
if not, sand it down, fix the damaged / missing caulking and put sikkens cetol clear on in
sikkens cetol 'repairs' very well, you don't have to strip the whole deck as and when it scratches / chips

The whole point of a Teak deck is the non-slip properties when wet. Surely a coating of Cetol (excellent though it is) would make for a ratehr slippy deck?

 

[XDC]

Run.

 

[BrianH]

A friend of mine is considering the purchase of a 1985 vintage HR 312 and asked me along to take a look at her.

All in all, she seemed to be a fine boat and in great shape for her age.
With one possible caveat: the teak decks are still original. It had rained in the hours prior to our visit. Large parts of the decks had dried when we arrived, but some parts (mainly around the shrouds) we still wet/humid.

I have always avoided teak decks on my boats, so I am not really in a position to give advice.

Hence my question on here: anyone have any experience with this model of similar vintage?
Is it a teak on GRP construction or something else like teak on ply on GRP?
Anyone replaced a teak deck on a HR? Cost?

My instincts tell me that he should walk away but he seems quite smitten with the boat.

I've recently sold my 1981 31' HR94 this year with the original teak deck, which, when bought in 2005, was close to end-of-life condition.

I kept it in NE Italy and nursed it through my ownership because, although leaking along many seams, it did not manifest in any leaks below because the planks were laid on a silicon spread and screwed into a very substantial fibreglass composite sandwich deck with impermeable foam core.

Over the years voids occurred in the silicon bed between wood and fibreglass as it hardened and where water would lay trapped at the lowest deck level until dried out in the hot Italian sun. I also had a complete cover made for the vulnerable winter months when northern Italy experiences sub-zero temperatures and ice can open up wet seams.

My intention was to eventually strip off the teak, epoxy-fill the over-900 screw holes, grind down the tops and paint with Kiwigrip - the fibreglass deck being thick and strong enough to sustain any normal weight. No way was I prepared to invest in a new teak deck of plantation wood that would cost at least 50% of the entire boat's value. I hung on cosseting the wood because it just looked so good. Alas, ill health intervened and she had to go, still with the original teak deck.