Gullible Me

Frayed Knot

Frayed Knot

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Does anybody here believe/take any notice of PBO or YM gear tests/product comparisons?
Needing to give my canvas work a spruce-up I happened to see one on just the products I needed & seeing the “Best on Test” which stood out way above the others was also reasonably priced I duly bought some.
Here comes the surprise: half an hour of scrubbing on my sail cover, carefully following the instructions, had absolutely zero effect; the run-off didn’t even appear discoloured.
I feel like the kind of sap who’s been talked into buying hair restorer from a carnival shyster & found it to be syrup of figs...
 
It is refreshing to learn what the embedded YBW experts think of the work of Thinwater, Vyv Cox, Panope, myself etc - just purveyors of snake oil :(

Some tests, like the Fortress, Chesapeake test, were (or are) unashamedly paid for by a manufacturer (simply strip out their product and look at the balance of results - or is this too complex?). Look at a cross section of tests by different magazines - and average the results, again is this too complex?

No-one would claim that tests published in magazines are perfect - but they are better than some of the drivel you see on the internet, with no peer review, subjective testing, tests that simply cannot be repeated etc etc.

I have to wonder how the cynics make their choices. I also wonder why - given they are so critical - they don't conduct their own tests and show the magazines up for the shams they suggest.

Jonathan
 
There was a great review of anti-fouling where they sent panels all around the country to different waters to see how they would perform.

Very sadly, printed magazines and real journalism is being forced into extinction by our New Tech Lords™ and their love of chatter from unqualified social influencers. I wouldn't be surprised if they can't afford the staff any more.

I never read the article, what was the product and what are people's other recommendations?

Perhaps it was a matter of "wrong type of mould" on the covers. These days, I think you're suppose to just throw them away & buy a new set from China.
 
I don’t buy yottie mags but occasionally look at the archived ones on their websites. Last one I looked at was the PBO one on folding props. Seemed properly done to me, at least, as much as a small publication with limited resources could be expected to do.
 
I was impressed with the Y10 cleaner I bought recently - got rid of the rust stains from the fishing boat that was using a grinder in the spring. Have to try it elsewhere now.
 
Frayed Knot said:
Does anybody here believe/take any notice of PBO or YM gear tests/product comparisons?
Needing to give my canvas work a spruce-up I happened to see one on just the products I needed & seeing the “Best on Test” which stood out way above the others was also reasonably priced I duly bought some.
Here comes the surprise: half an hour of scrubbing on my sail cover, carefully following the instructions, had absolutely zero effect; the run-off didn’t even appear discoloured.
I feel like the kind of sap who’s been talked into buying hair restorer from a carnival shyster & found it to be syrup of figs...
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I understand your disappointment .

Like finally finding a make of underpants that hold you in and are comfortable. Only to find that everything has gone rather slack after just one wash.
 
Frayed Knot said:
Does anybody here believe/take any notice of PBO or YM gear tests/product comparisons?
Needing to give my canvas work a spruce-up I happened to see one on just the products I needed & seeing the “Best on Test” which stood out way above the others was also reasonably priced I duly bought some.
Here comes the surprise: half an hour of scrubbing on my sail cover, carefully following the instructions, had absolutely zero effect; the run-off didn’t even appear discoloured.
I feel like the kind of sap who’s been talked into buying hair restorer from a carnival shyster & found it to be syrup of figs...
Click to expand...
This may or may not be useful information. It would be useful if it were shown that some other product performed better, but in the meantime I am left with the possibility that the dirt, if that is what it is, is so deeply inground that no cleaner will work.
 
johnalison said:
This may or may not be useful information. It would be useful if it were shown that some other product performed better, but in the meantime I am left with the possibility that the dirt, if that is what it is, is so deeply inground that no cleaner will work.
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Fair point but the cover is only a year old & just a little grubby, with a few spots of green organic growth. When I can summon up the enthusiasm I’ll try again using laundry detergent & will provide an update. If similarly ineffective I’ll eat humble pie ?
 
Frayed Knot said:
Fair point but the cover is only a year old & just a little grubby, with a few spots of green organic growth. When I can summon up the enthusiasm I’ll try again using laundry detergent & will provide an update. If similarly ineffective I’ll eat humble pie ?
Click to expand...

If the ingrained green is a problem, treat it with Boracol or Patio Magic.
 
The problem with product tests is that it is nigh on impossible to test any product against every possible task it is likely to be used on. Cleaners are a particular difficult one. No doubt the team tested all the cleaners on the same dirty canvas (they would have to to be fair to each product) but that canvas would have been dirtied with a specific combination of stuff. Probably a unique combination. Your dirty canvas will almost certainly have a completely different type of dirt combination, again probably fairly unique, and the one that worked on their didn't work on yours. Maybe, as mentioned, nothing would work on yours. The only way to tell would be to buy all the products from eth test and replicate it and report back.

What I am saying is that I believe that the testers set out with the best intentions are are not led by advertising revenue, but the testing conditions on the day have to be taken into account and sometimes you need to read very carefully between the lines to see whether there are any clues that might mean even the best product in the test is not the right product for you.

What are the alternatives?

You could rely on recommendations from other boaters, but they have probably just bought a single product that may or may not have worked for them. That's surely no better, in fact its far worse IMHO.
 
I hate to mention anchors

Some people are such experts and being experts will enjoy criticising anchor testing, reptitively. Challenge them and ask them to develop and describe a test protocol - and they slink off, until they think their criticism has been forgotten - and they repeat the message. But they never come up with an anchor test protocol.

I restrict most of my investigative focus to 'ground tackle' and antifouling, but admit to spilling over into other topics (slow cookers being another sideline). I don't believe in any way to be an expert, but my work enjoys some support. I'm of the belief that focus on a restricted topic is better than being a 'master of everything'. I endeavour to be as fair as possible (but admit some possible bias, as a result of bendy shanks) but my work is reviewed by my peers before it hits the newsagents shelves and if bias creeps in - it is edited out. Anchor (and rode) testing is hard physical work and I do it because I find it interesting. To have someone suggest any testing is simply to fill the space between the adverts misses the point - without the adverts there would be no magazine, no testing and you would, and may become, at the mercy of the loudest mouths on the internet.

The choice is yours, our ours.

Thanks to investigative work, we have better tether hooks for safety harnesses, shackle specifications have been downgraded to reflect reaiity, chain hooks have been withdrawn, we know the weakness and failure mechanisms of swivels - some of the small changes that add to work that stacks up - and not an advertiser in sight.

Criticism is healthy - but criticism by itself is easy - coming up with a better methodology would be much more useful.


To the OP - I cannot comment, its simply too far outside my area of interest. But like antifouling - it all depends. I don't think you were 'gullible', or no more than me in my choice of detergent in our washing machine or dishwasher (on the domestic front - they are my responsibility). Horses for courses (like anchors - there is no perfect cleaner, there is no perfect washing machine, dishwasher. windlass nor anchor.

Stay safe, take care

Jonathan
 
PetiteFleur said:
I was impressed with the Y10 cleaner I bought recently - got rid of the rust stains from the fishing boat that was using a grinder in the spring. Have to try it elsewhere now.
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Y10 is good but, I think you would have been more impressed if you had bought oxalic acid crystals and some wallpaper paste, enough to make up a gallon or more, at half the price of small can of Y10 :) Too many tests have results designed to keep advertisers happy.
 
Graham376 said:
Y10 is good but, I think you would have been more impressed if you had bought oxalic acid crystals and some wallpaper paste, enough to make up a gallon or more, at half the price of small can of Y10 :)
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A gallon?? A tiny tub of Y10 lasts me years. I don't think I'd ever get through a gallon of the stuff.
 
Neeves said:
It is refreshing to learn what the embedded YBW experts think of the work of Thinwater, Vyv Cox, Panope, myself etc - just purveyors of snake oil :(
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Even though there are some assiduous testers around - I would trust two of those on your list - their efforts are undone by the incompetent and the commercial. A test really isn't much good if you need long experience of the tester in order to decide whether to rely on it.
 
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