Guernsey Marina confusion

[Koeketiene]

There speaks someone who is paid from government coffers and doesn't have to grovel for his shillings.

You're right - never felt the need or the desire to do much grovelling.
Don't think I'm missing out.

I can tell you the good shopmeisters in Poole and Bournemouth would be open over Bank Holidays including the supermarkets. At the very least the chandlers would be open on the Saturday, even if not on the Sunday or the Monday and they would certainly have the courtesy to call back after a voicemail.

I must have missed the news reports of the mass Guernsey famine or the pictures of begging children in the streets of St Peter Port.
Either that, or the good people of Guernsey are managing well enough without having to work bank holiday weekends. Good for them.
Work to live - don't live to work.

In the real world you don't always get what you want when you want it. Even my children know that.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Can novice young lads really be trained in boat handling, seamanship, berthing skills etc. in a week? I doubt it.

Course they can - it's not particle physics is it. Pretty noddy stuff and kids learn fast if they want to do.

 

[Grumpybear]

Actually, times have become harder in Guernsey of late. A spiralling welfare bill, among other things, led to a lively debate about public spending and taxes. I was involved in a public utility contract at the time, so got a lot of background info from state employees.

it's a matter of degree - I believe part of the debate was over the ou
Trageous prospect of spending cuts vs the government actualy having to borrow money for once

 

[guernseyman]

Actually, times have become harder in Guernsey of late. A spiralling welfare bill, among other things, led to a lively debate about public spending and taxes. I was involved in a public utility contract at the time, so got a lot of background info from state employees.

it's a matter of degree - I believe part of the debate was over the ou
Trageous prospect of spending cuts vs the government actualy having to borrow money for once

Our troubles are largely self-inflicted - following the Isle of Man down the road of "zero-10" taxation. Don't ask. What we should have done was complain like hell to the UK and EU about the £ 230 million subsidy that the UK was giving to the IoM. That subsidy enabled the IoM to dream up zero-10, in the belief that the Channel Islands could not follow without crippling ourselves.

In the event we did manage, just, and then the UK cut their subsidy to the IoM, leaving them with an as yet unresolved problem. But we are still stuck with zero-10, and it's not comfortable.

 

[stuartwineberg]

Particle Physics

Course they can - it's not particle physics is it. Pretty noddy stuff and kids learn fast if they want to do.

Bosun Higgs - particle physics - sounds like you should know

 

[Elemental]

I look forward to returning again this year, I do love Alderney.

+1

 

[snooks]

Apologies for the delay in response There are a number of misunderstandings and assumptions included within the thread, so it would be useful to be objective and try and clarify a few points.

Guernsey Harbours receives some 10,000 visiting yachts each year. In fact we have the largest reserved berthing capability for visiting yachts in Britain.

We welcome feedback from all. In that vein, comments freely given and regularly received from boat shows has overwhelmingly been along the lines of 'We enjoy the personal welcome service, the loos are second to none, see you next season'. It's a fact that in the last two years, harbour management have had no adverse feedback or formal direct complaints about customer service from visiting yachts. Interpret that how you will.

So it is of concern that an indirect blog appears to be the sole conduit for the comments being made.

Yes the port is busy. It has been full most summers for as long as most can remember. As a first principle we pride ourselves on doing our level best to provide a safe berth and protection from the weather and in welcoming all visitors alike. If that means double banking or rafting at the height of the season, so be it. Have a thought for the yacht still outside. The far greater crime is to send the tired crew of a yacht back out to sea, late at night, using the 'full up' sign as an excuse. That is certainly not our style.

We start the daily round of dues collection at 8.30 local time, (which for 40% of our visitors on EU time, is an hour later.) With several hundred yachts to visit, this takes quite a long time and can use up the whole morning. We prefer not to use the afternoon when large numbers have a siesta. Whilst we are sure that none of your correspondents would ever dream of leaving without paying, it's a sad fact that many do.

St. Peter Port does not reserve berths for anybody, regattas and rallies included, and the larger of these are discouraged during the high season. In any event, we do try to moor clubs and rallies together if at all possible for their convenience and to least inconvenience others. One man's joyful reunion or safe arrival party is sometimes annoying to others. That's life.

It is not acceptable, in our view, to tell a visitor that the empty berth he is looking at, is paid for and therefore unavailable. Where's the customer relations in that? Far sooner welcome a real arrival than take a deposit from a possible only.

The use of young temporary summer staff has been in place for a very long time. Maybe they don't have the communication skills, subtlety or experience of older hands and yes it is accepted that three recent retirements of the old hands has led to a marked reduction in that overall quantum of knowledge. We accept and understand that experience does take time to develop.

Speed limits within the harbours apply to all, staff and visitors alike. Occasionally, as one might expect, the enthusiasm to hurry and get on with the job has led to a reprimand. Unfortunately, with 30 foot rise and fall, time and tide wait for no man. On a lighter note, that, by the way, is why the ladders are so high. Any shorter and they would not reach the jetty top.

As suggested earlier, all feedback is welcomed, hard copy, email or personal. The office is open. Of course we take on board the comments made and will look to ways for improvement. However, scuttlebutt is scuttlebutt, Don't listen to rumour, come and judge us for yourself.

This comment has just been approved, sorry for the delay

 

[doris]

Guernesy Harbour Master

Well that puts us in our places doesn't it.

What a load of tosh and swerve, no say nothing of a serious 'economy of the truth'.
As far as I am concerned it simply means I will go there if I really have to, otherwise they can stuff their harbour.

Obviously my complaint last year was ignored/not recorded.

Bo**ocks I say.

 

[fireball]

It's a fact that in the last two years, harbour management have had no adverse feedback or formal direct complaints about customer service from visiting yachts. Interpret that how you will.

I think a few on here will interpret that as either an out and out lie - or that complaints are not passed on or recorded ...

So it is of concern that an indirect blog appears to be the sole conduit for the comments being made.

This is a bit more than an "indirect blog" ...

However, scuttlebutt is scuttlebutt, Don't listen to rumour, come and judge us for yourself.

This Scuttlebutt is a place for all to come and share their experiences, knowledge and ask questions .. it is a very valuable resource ..

Whilst there may be a few trolls on here I wouldn't be too hasty and dismiss this thread to rumour ...

 

[Yacht Breeze]

Harbour's response

Well, we were told to expect denial and that's what we have. Sad really because if the harbour authority took notice and acted they could make St. Peter Port and 'must visit' destination and not a 'must avoid' harbour.

The evidence on this thread flies in the face of what the harbour authority claims. The only glimmer of acceptance is the acknowledgement that, yes, the lads in the dorys do speed and sometimes cause excessive wake. Well, if they curtail those antics at least something will have been achieved by our comments but forget sleeping in - you're going to be woken at half eight every morning, like it or not, to check you've paid.

We've tried to help, we've been ignored.

Who is the loser I ask?

 

[Elemental]

Guernsey Harbour response

Oh dear... exactly what wasn't needed. A formal response that all is well.

So it is of concern that an indirect blog appears to be the sole conduit for the comments being made.

Indirect, in that the posts aren't made to you - perhaps you should consider whether your feedback/survey process is effective. There's a natural tendancy for people, when on holiday, to just get on with their holiday rather than make complaints at the time. The near universal condemnation here must tell you something.

Yes the port is busy. It has been full most summers for as long as most can remember. As a first principle we pride ourselves on doing our level best to provide a safe berth and protection from the weather and in welcoming all visitors alike. If that means double banking or rafting at the height of the season, so be it. Have a thought for the yacht still outside. The far greater crime is to send the tired crew of a yacht back out to sea, late at night, using the 'full up' sign as an excuse. That is certainly not our style.

I don't think people object to rafting, if managed sympathetically. It's the somewhat hap-hazard/mismatched grouping of boats that's at issue. I wouldn't appreciate being turned away, nor do I mind rafting (it's a good way of meeting your neighbours).

The use of young temporary summer staff has been in place for a very long time. Maybe they don't have the communication skills, subtlety or experience of older hands and yes it is accepted that three recent retirements of the old hands has led to a marked reduction in that overall quantum of knowledge. We accept and understand that experience does take time to develop.

Of course the use of younger or temporary staff is to be expected in the high season. The issue is one of initial training, and subsequent continuous monitoring/mentoring. It's not reasonable to expect a week of training to cover all eventualities. Staff need to be able to construct a raft, insist on shorelines if appropriate, assess the suitability of different yachts and have sufficient boatmanship skills to fill in the gaps of visitors who perhaps lack such skills...

As suggested earlier, all feedback is welcomed, hard copy, email or personal. The office is open. Of course we take on board the comments made and will look to ways for improvement. However, scuttlebutt is scuttlebutt, Don't listen to rumour, come and judge us for yourself.

I think that most commentators have already done so.

Sadly, I don't think your response is going to placate many. Whilst I'm sure we appreciate any response, a long list of why you're doing things right (somewhat in contradiction to a lot of people's experience) isn't what's needed. I think you need to accept that there's a problem (real, perceived or otherwise) and then come here and post about what you're going to change to make amends.

 

[Sailfree]

Bo**ocks I say.

Why don't you say it like it is Doris don't be subtle!!!!

As a PR response I would give it 7/10. Personally I would have used the first part of the statement as a introduction, express concern that there were so many adverse comments and say we are taking these on board and ensure any necessary training is done and end with a point of contact in the unlikely event of any problems in future.

But my comments and other sensible suggestions should all be ignored as its all just scuttlebutt.

Bit sad as I used to always like going there but this response in the light of so many comments smacks me a bit of arrogance that is only justified if I did not need future business or was always 100% busy.

Many businesses and organisations need to understand the power of the internet and how quickly things change these days. Most now arrange holidays/trips/outings only after searching reviews.

 

[Bav34]

Really glad to read that there's not a problem. It would be a shame if there was.

So moving on ... literally ... anyone tell me the distance between Cherbourg and St Helier vs SPP?

 

[Fatfish]

We welcome feedback from all. In that vein, comments freely given and regularly received from boat shows has overwhelmingly been along the lines of 'We enjoy the personal welcome service, the loos are second to none, see you next season'. It's a fact that in the last two years, harbour management have had no adverse feedback or formal direct complaints about customer service from visiting yachts. Interpret that how you will.

Hello? Did you read post 51?

The post when someone from Guernsey Harbour Masters replied to a complaint aka "adverse feedback"....If that email wasn't adverse, just what was it?

The following is a copy of a series of emails between myself and SPP HM.


On 6 Sep 2010, at 14:43, "Galliott, Michael" <Michael.Galliott@gov.gg> wrote:

Dear Mr N

.......Looking into complaint.......

Mike Galliott

From: Gill, Peter
Sent: 03 September 2010 13:36
To: Galliott, Michael; Gaudion, Mike; Trebert, Graham
Subject: FW: EOS

......Acknowledgement of complaint.......

From: JOHN]
Sent: 03 September 2010 13:27
To: Gill, Peter
Subject: EOS

Dear Captain Gill

.....Complaint........

 

[longjohnsilver]

Hello? Did you read post 51?

The post when someone from Guernsey Harbour Masters replied to a complaint aka "adverse feedback"....If that email wasn't adverse, just what was it?

Maybe they think that it's now 2013 so my complaint was more than 2 years ago.................

I'm afraid their response beggars belief and is simply untrue. My complaint is there for all to see. How can they deny it? And no doubt others that have been made over the same period.

So they are concerned about waking people having a siesta but will continue to knock on every boat early in the morning regardless of whether they are displaying a ticket showing berthing fees have been paid!

Time to stick head firmly back in the sand.

 

[snooks]

Maybe they think that it's now 2013 so my complaint was more than 2 years ago.................

Perhaps the last time they looked at YBW was on New Years Day

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298782

 

[Seajet]

Well if I was in any doubt about visiting St Peter Port again this year, seeing the pathetic response from the Harbour Master ( fingers stuck in his ears singing 'la la' loudly ) has firmly put the tin hat on that idea.

I can well do without rubbish treatment knowing any complaint will be swept under the carpet.

I doubt I'm alone in this...

 

[humbug716]

The reply email from the Harbour Authority displays a remarkable lack of willing to resolve an issue. To state that the Marina Attendant has not come forward is ridiculous. There is only about 10 in total so what they are saying is they have no idea who is was working at any particular time, I doubt it.
So what acutally happened is the staff declined to own up, natural reaction I suppose. Then the management could'nt be bothered to work out the shift rota and overtime payments to narrow the list of subjects down, and then investigate to establish the truth.
I'm beginning to feel sorry for the Harbourmaster, Eagles, soaring, and Turkeys come to mind!

 

[rickym]

I have read this thread with interest, having been a fan of Guernsey and SPP for a long time. I must admit I haven't been there for a couple of years now and it seems that things have gone downhill.

I have worked in Sales and Marketing for the best part of 30 years and the sad truth is that 'reality' is the customer's perspection. No matter what you say will change this. I worked for an organisation that was great at 'spin'. We had a poor product and no amount of spin could save it or us from the flak, 'spinning' made things worse. The MD blamed sales, they blamed marketing, who blamed design, who blamed... you get the picture. Not many customers complained (not more than once) they just stopped being customers.

Conversely, accept you may have a problem (even though you believe you haven't), tell people that the problem is being addressed, thank customers for their patience during the transition/problem solving/re-training etc... AND GET IT RIGHT!!! Then everyone is happy and even the dissatisfied will have little to complain about and will tell others that things were bad BUT it's OK now which confirms your own 'spin'

Rocket science it ain't!

 

[rotrax]

I have read this thread with interest, having been a fan of Guernsey and SPP for a long time. I must admit I haven't been there for a couple of years now and it seems that things have gone downhill.

I have worked in Sales and Marketing for the best part of 30 years and the sad truth is that 'reality' is the customer's perspection. No matter what you say will change this. I worked for an organisation that was great at 'spin'. We had a poor product and no amount of spin could save it or us from the flak, 'spinning' made things worse. The MD blamed sales, they blamed marketing, who blamed design, who blamed... you get the picture. Not many customers complained (not more than once) they just stopped being customers.

Conversely, accept you may have a problem (even though you believe you haven't), tell people that the problem is being addressed, thank customers for their patience during the transition/problem solving/re-training etc... AND GET IT RIGHT!!! Then everyone is happy and even the dissatisfied will have little to complain about and will tell others that things were bad BUT it's OK now which confirms your own 'spin'

Rocket science it ain't!

Yup -Thats the way to do it!